trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,137
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Post by trojansc on Dec 31, 2019 14:34:06 GMT -5
This is my issue with the prayer. Baylor is inviting other teams in an effort to “spread the gospel as Christ has called them to do”. You can say that doesn’t intend harm necessarily, but there is certainly intent to spread religious ideals, which is why I find it so inappropriate involving nonreligious uni’sz How about just accepting the gesture in the spirit it was intended, and graciously decline if that's your wish? Because a team captain (the person that Baylor asks) should not be determining whether her team or not participates, even if we accept the idea that the invitation/request is appropriate.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Dec 31, 2019 14:46:09 GMT -5
I said nothing of the sort. Note the start of my statement: " It becomes a public concern when proffered in a public arena, including impressionable young girls and boys." By all means, express away - just don't expect others to remain silent. What you seem to be saying, however, is that any expression of any religious belief should be exempt from criticism. That's the Caliphate, not America. No I’m not saying that, but I think I misunderstood the second sentence of your statement. After reading your last post, and correct me if I’m wrong, you are saying people can believe what they want behind closed doors but as soon as they express it in public then it is open to criticism (which I agree with). At first, I interpreted it as you saying that they can believe what they want behind closed doors and it should stay there if it’s negative to your opinion. Yes, basically... I do feel the mixture of religion and sports can be problematic. That's another thread, however...
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 31, 2019 15:13:44 GMT -5
No I’m not saying that, but I think I misunderstood the second sentence of your statement. After reading your last post, and correct me if I’m wrong, you are saying people can believe what they want behind closed doors but as soon as they express it in public then it is open to criticism (which I agree with). At first, I interpreted it as you saying that they can believe what they want behind closed doors and it should stay there if it’s negative to your opinion. Yes, basically... I do feel the mixture of religion and sports can be problematic. That's another thread, however... The way I look at it, Baylor is bringing sports into religion more than they are religion into sports. Sports are supplemental to the institution
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Post by redbeard2008 on Dec 31, 2019 16:29:37 GMT -5
Yes, basically... I do feel the mixture of religion and sports can be problematic. That's another thread, however... The way I look at it, Baylor is bringing sports into religion more than they are religion into sports. Sports are supplemental to the institution I'm not sure about that. It looks more to me to be an effort to spread religious doctrines through sports. As such, it could be construed as being in conflict with Baylor's official mission, in that it excludes those who don't share the same belief:
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 31, 2019 16:53:03 GMT -5
The way I look at it, Baylor is bringing sports into religion more than they are religion into sports. Sports are supplemental to the institution I'm not sure about that. It looks more to me to be an effort to spread religious doctrines through sports. As such, it could be construed as being in conflict with Baylor's official mission, in that it excludes those who don't share the same belief: The official mission: “The mission of Baylor University is to educate men and women for worldwide leadership and service by integrating academic excellence and Christian commitment within a caring community.” I’d say they are pretty committed to Christianity lol. But if you take away volleyball from the institution, the religion is still there. Many other public Baylor events include Christian traditions as well. I don’t feel Baylor should operate a volleyball match outside of their normal traditions just because it is a sport, but I know people will disagree with that. These girls represent Baylor which includes representing Baylor’s mission.
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 31, 2019 16:57:38 GMT -5
How about just accepting the gesture in the spirit it was intended, and graciously decline if that's your wish? Because a team captain (the person that Baylor asks) should not be determining whether her team or not participates, even if we accept the idea that the invitation/request is appropriate. I didn’t know this, but someone mentioned that a Baylor player actually tells the opposing team before the match that they are welcome to pray with them. That gives the coach a chance to make a decision. Once the match is over, then the captain is asked.
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Post by holidayhusker on Dec 31, 2019 17:01:44 GMT -5
How about just accepting the gesture in the spirit it was intended, and graciously decline if that's your wish? Because a team captain (the person that Baylor asks) should not be determining whether her team or not participates, even if we accept the idea that the invitation/request is appropriate. . What in the world do you think the mission is of a Christian if they’re not allowed to talk ?
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 31, 2019 17:55:02 GMT -5
Are you so sure you know "the spirit it was intended"? How do you know the intentions of other people? Yes. I'm smart like that. Pretty simple sometimes. Christians wishing me Merry Christmas, blessing me after I sneeze, or asking me to join them in prayer. . . all well-meaning. Well, I guess you're just special then. Most of us don't have that sort of magical ability to always know what the intentions of other people are.
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trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,137
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Post by trojansc on Dec 31, 2019 18:59:56 GMT -5
Because a team captain (the person that Baylor asks) should not be determining whether her team or not participates, even if we accept the idea that the invitation/request is appropriate. Why not? If she says yes, are her teammates forced to bow their heads and prey as well? If she says "no thank you" are her teammates forbidden from saying a prayer themselves? Way too many people looking for something to be offended by. Why not? Because they are pushing religious ideals, it’s as simple as that. I highly doubt that the majority of people would not be saying “so beautiful” if for example a team with exclusively Muslim recruits were asking teams to pray with them. THEIR style of prayer doesn’t even look the same, and team’s don’t join hands. If you agree with one and not the other... well......... And before someone says it — no — neither is appropriate involving other in an NCAA or FIVB match. If you have a religious agenda, why not just invite them to your local church after the match, especially if they’re in town?
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 31, 2019 22:23:44 GMT -5
Why not? If she says yes, are her teammates forced to bow their heads and prey as well? If she says "no thank you" are her teammates forbidden from saying a prayer themselves? Way too many people looking for something to be offended by. Why not? Because they are pushing religious ideals, it’s as simple as that. I highly doubt that the majority of people would not be saying “so beautiful” if for example a team with exclusively Muslim recruits were asking teams to pray with them. THEIR style of prayer doesn’t even look the same, and team’s don’t join hands. If you agree with one and not the other... well......... And before someone says it — no — neither is appropriate involving other in an NCAA or FIVB match. If you have a religious agenda, why not just invite them to your local church after the match, especially if they’re in town? You’re right. Their style of prayer looks completely different. To me, it looks like they pray more individually. I’m not too informed on specific traditions of their religion, but maybe prayer is not something done consistently as a group for them. That’s not how Christianity is though. It’s not abnormal for Christians to pray in groups and is done at many gatherings, so praying as a group shouldn’t be seen as any different in Baylor’s situation. Baylor also does a pregame prayer with the whole arena. Prayer in Christianity is often practiced with others.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 23:50:52 GMT -5
Why not? Because they are pushing religious ideals, it’s as simple as that. I highly doubt that the majority of people would not be saying “so beautiful” if for example a team with exclusively Muslim recruits were asking teams to pray with them. THEIR style of prayer doesn’t even look the same, and team’s don’t join hands. If you agree with one and not the other... well......... And before someone says it — no — neither is appropriate involving other in an NCAA or FIVB match. If you have a religious agenda, why not just invite them to your local church after the match, especially if they’re in town? You’re right. Their style of prayer looks completely different. To me, it looks like they pray more individually. I’m not too informed on specific traditions of their religion, but maybe prayer is not something done consistently as a group for them. That’s not how Christianity is though. It’s not abnormal for Christians to pray in groups and is done at many gatherings, so praying as a group shouldn’t be seen as any different in Baylor’s situation. Baylor also does a pregame prayer with the whole arena. Prayer in Christianity is often practiced with others. An incorrect assumption - ill advised where religion is concerned. Salat (daily prayer) is undertaken 5 times each day and within the Muslim faith prayer in a congregation is considered 27 times more powerful than individual prayer.
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 31, 2019 23:54:56 GMT -5
You’re right. Their style of prayer looks completely different. To me, it looks like they pray more individually. I’m not too informed on specific traditions of their religion, but maybe prayer is not something done consistently as a group for them. That’s not how Christianity is though. It’s not abnormal for Christians to pray in groups and is done at many gatherings, so praying as a group shouldn’t be seen as any different in Baylor’s situation. Baylor also does a pregame prayer with the whole arena. Prayer in Christianity is often practiced with others. An incorrect assumption - ill advised where religion is concerned. Salat (daily prayer) is undertaken 5 times each day and within the Muslim faith prayer in a congregation is considered 27 times more powerful than individual prayer. Thanks for that info!
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Post by letsbeclear on Jan 1, 2020 14:11:03 GMT -5
Why not? Because they are pushing religious ideals, it’s as simple as that. I highly doubt that the majority of people would not be saying “so beautiful” if for example a team with exclusively Muslim recruits were asking teams to pray with them. THEIR style of prayer doesn’t even look the same, and team’s don’t join hands. If you agree with one and not the other... well......... And before someone says it — no — neither is appropriate involving other in an NCAA or FIVB match. If you have a religious agenda, why not just invite them to your local church after the match, especially if they’re in town? You perceive it as "pushing", I see it as "pulling". And yes, I thought about how would I feel if it was Muslim prayer, and my answer would be a simple "no thank you". No need to get offended. I'm not sure the two situations trojansc invited us to compare are comparable in all respects. In the U.S., Christianity is the dominant religion. It's a whole lot easier not to be offended when a member of a minority religion requests that you join them in public prayer at an otherwise secular event.
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Post by n00b on Jan 1, 2020 14:15:22 GMT -5
You perceive it as "pushing", I see it as "pulling". And yes, I thought about how would I feel if it was Muslim prayer, and my answer would be a simple "no thank you". No need to get offended. I'm not sure the two situations trojansc invited us to compare are comparable in all respects. In the U.S., Christianity is the dominant religion. It's a whole lot easier not to be offended when a member of a minority religion makes the request to join in public prayer at an otherwise secular event. I don’t care if it’s Islam, Buddhism or the Church of Scientology. There’s positively no way that I’d be offended by ANYBODY asking me to join a public prayer. There’s a fairly good chance I’d say no. But offended? Come on.
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Post by Riviera Minestrone on Jan 1, 2020 14:21:59 GMT -5
GUYS: In the spirit of the new year, please relegate this unfortunate, lamentable, piss-poor thread to 2019; not to raise its moronic head into VOLLEYBALL discussions again (remember them?)
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