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Post by letsbeclear on Jan 1, 2020 14:29:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure the two situations trojansc invited us to compare are comparable in all respects. In the U.S., Christianity is the dominant religion. It's a whole lot easier not to be offended when a member of a minority religion makes the request to join in public prayer at an otherwise secular event. I don’t care if it’s Islam, Buddhism or the Church of Scientology. There’s positively no way that I’d be offended by ANYBODY asking me to join a public prayer. There’s a fairly good chance I’d say no. But offended? Come on. I don't think I was clear enough. What I was trying to suggest was to imagine being part of a minority religion -- or any other group, for that matter -- and then being asked by someone from an overwhelmingly majority religion to join them in a public expression of their religion at a non-religious event. Wouldn't you say being put in that position is different than if the request had come from a Muslim, a Buddhist or a Scientologist in the United States? It would be for me.
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Post by letsbeclear on Jan 1, 2020 14:37:23 GMT -5
GUYS: In the spirit of the new year, please relegate this unfortunate, lamentable, piss-poor thread to 2019; not to raise its moronic head into VOLLEYBALL discussions again (remember them?) But this thread is already 20 pages long, so you surely know what it's about. So why do you keep coming back to it to be offended how inappropriate it is. Just don't click on it, and you won't have to see these "unfortunate, lamentable, piss-poor...moronic" non-volleyball-related comments. (Unless you think it's knocking something you find more relevant down to page 2. Then I could see your point.)
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Post by n00b on Jan 1, 2020 14:56:07 GMT -5
I don’t care if it’s Islam, Buddhism or the Church of Scientology. There’s positively no way that I’d be offended by ANYBODY asking me to join a public prayer. There’s a fairly good chance I’d say no. But offended? Come on. I don't think I was clear enough. What I was trying to suggest was to imagine being part of a minority religion -- or any other group, for that matter -- and then being asked by someone from an overwhelmingly majority religion to join them in a public expression of their religion at a non-religious event. Wouldn't you say being put in that position is different than if the request had come from a Muslim, a Buddhist or a Scientologist in the United States? It would be for me. Yes. That doesn’t make it offensive. If I went with a college team on a foreign tour to Southeast Asia and they asked us to pray afterward. I absolutely would not be offended.
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Post by Riviera Minestrone on Jan 1, 2020 15:11:29 GMT -5
GUYS: In the spirit of the new year, please relegate this unfortunate, lamentable, piss-poor thread to 2019; not to raise its moronic head into VOLLEYBALL discussions again (remember them?) But this thread is already 20 pages long, so you surely know what it's about. So why do you keep coming back to it to be offended how inappropriate it is. Just don't click on it, and you won't have to see these "unfortunate, lamentable, piss-poor...moronic" non-volleyball-related comments. (Unless you think it's knocking something you find more relevant down to page 2. Then I could see your point.) Sorry...seems as if someone-on-high agreed with many of us: much better here;
'bye!!
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Post by Riviera Minestrone on Jan 1, 2020 15:35:34 GMT -5
But this thread is already 20 pages long, so you surely know what it's about. So why do you keep coming back to it to be offended how inappropriate it is. Just don't click on it, and you won't have to see these "unfortunate, lamentable, piss-poor...moronic" non-volleyball-related comments. (Unless you think it's knocking something you find more relevant down to page 2. Then I could see your point.) Sorry...seems as if someone-on-high agreed with many of us: much better here;
'bye!! And to answer your question...tho' I never participate in "off the net" threads...it was the All-Capped title, & aggressiveness thereof, continually on top of The Board menu!
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trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,137
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Post by trojansc on Jan 1, 2020 16:14:01 GMT -5
I'm not sure the two situations trojansc invited us to compare are comparable in all respects. In the U.S., Christianity is the dominant religion. It's a whole lot easier not to be offended when a member of a minority religion makes the request to join in public prayer at an otherwise secular event. I don’t care if it’s Islam, Buddhism or the Church of Scientology. There’s positively no way that I’d be offended by ANYBODY asking me to join a public prayer. There’s a fairly good chance I’d say no. But offended? Come on. I’m confused why everyone keeps using the word offended when the main argument has been that it’s an inappropriate request to push religious ideals. I have clearly said it doesn’t offend me personally. And you can tell by dearman’s post trying to say what I call pushing is what he calls pulling, along with Jim Barnes comment about trying to be a “light” — the intent is clear.
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trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,137
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Post by trojansc on Jan 1, 2020 16:15:27 GMT -5
I don't think I was clear enough. What I was trying to suggest was to imagine being part of a minority religion -- or any other group, for that matter -- and then being asked by someone from an overwhelmingly majority religion to join them in a public expression of their religion at a non-religious event. Wouldn't you say being put in that position is different than if the request had come from a Muslim, a Buddhist or a Scientologist in the United States? It would be for me. Yes. That doesn’t make it offensive. If I went with a college team on a foreign tour to Southeast Asia and they asked us to pray afterward. I absolutely would not be offended. Has anyone said anything here that would lead you to believe they would be offended by that request?
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Post by letsbeclear on Jan 1, 2020 16:49:23 GMT -5
I don't think I was clear enough. What I was trying to suggest was to imagine being part of a minority religion -- or any other group, for that matter -- and then being asked by someone from an overwhelmingly majority religion to join them in a public expression of their religion at a non-religious event. Wouldn't you say being put in that position is different than if the request had come from a Muslim, a Buddhist or a Scientologist in the United States? It would be for me. Yes. That doesn’t make it offensive. If I went with a college team on a foreign tour to Southeast Asia and they asked us to pray afterward. I absolutely would not be offended. Again, I'm not sure the analogy holds. When you're a visitor -- and all the more so, when you're visiting another country and therefore presumably interested in learning something about its culture -- the rules of what's appropriate (in trojansc's terms) or what you reasonably should not take offense at (in your terms) are different from the situation where you're a minority who lives among an overwhelming majority.
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Post by n00b on Jan 1, 2020 18:41:04 GMT -5
Has anyone said anything here that would lead you to believe they would be offended by that request? Yes I'm not sure the two situations trojansc invited us to compare are comparable in all respects. In the U.S., Christianity is the dominant religion. It's a whole lot easier not to be offended when a member of a minority religion requests that you join them in public prayer at an otherwise secular event.
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Post by letsbeclear on Jan 1, 2020 20:28:56 GMT -5
Has anyone said anything here that would lead you to believe they would be offended by that request? Yes I'm not sure the two situations trojansc invited us to compare are comparable in all respects. In the U.S., Christianity is the dominant religion. It's a whole lot easier not to be offended when a member of a minority religion requests that you join them in public prayer at an otherwise secular event. Of course, that comment of mine that you're quoting was in direct response to darlydearman's writing this: "And yes, I thought about how would I feel if it was Muslim prayer, and my answer would be a simple 'no thank you.' No need to get offended." I'm willing to discuss this in terms of appropriateness or offensiveness; trojansc may not be. But even at that, I did not mean to suggest that I would be offended -- only that if someone were offended, it would not be unreasonable.
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Post by Mocha on Jan 2, 2020 10:54:18 GMT -5
First moved to Off the Net, next stop?
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Post by Hawk Attack on Jan 2, 2020 11:10:16 GMT -5
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Post by letsbeclear on Jan 2, 2020 13:55:35 GMT -5
Of course, that comment of mine that you're quoting was in direct response to darlydearman's writing this: "And yes, I thought about how would I feel if it was Muslim prayer, and my answer would be a simple 'no thank you.' No need to get offended." I'm willing to discuss this in terms of appropriateness or offensiveness; trojansc may not be. But even at that, I did not mean to suggest that I would be offended -- only that if someone were offended, it would not be unreasonable. I'd argue that when someone is making a gesture of good intent, such as to join them in a prayer or other sacred ritual/ceremony it is absolutely unreasonable to become offended. If you don't subscribe to their religious beliefs just say no thank you and move on with your day. Why is that such a crazy concept? It's not a crazy concept at all. Not to be repetitious, but all I was suggesting that it might be more difficult not to be offended if you're a minority in an overwhelming majority setting.
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Post by letsbeclear on Jan 2, 2020 17:00:47 GMT -5
Interesting perspective. In my opinion, it would be less surprising and/or more anticipated, and therefore less likely to be offensive. If anything, I'd be more concerned about my respectful declination being found offensive. Carry on, I've argued my stance on the issue. Ditto. I appreciate the civility of our exchange.
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Post by dc on Jan 2, 2020 18:09:25 GMT -5
Of course, that comment of mine that you're quoting was in direct response to darlydearman's writing this: "And yes, I thought about how would I feel if it was Muslim prayer, and my answer would be a simple 'no thank you.' No need to get offended." I'm willing to discuss this in terms of appropriateness or offensiveness; trojansc may not be. But even at that, I did not mean to suggest that I would be offended -- only that if someone were offended, it would not be unreasonable. I'd argue that when someone is making a gesture of good intent, such as to join them in a prayer or other sacred ritual/ceremony it is absolutely unreasonable to become offended. If you don't subscribe to their religious beliefs just say no thank you and move on with your day. Why is that such a crazy concept? I think this was true at the beginning. By this point being unsophisticated and naive and innocent is much less charming.
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