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Post by newbeach on Jan 19, 2020 14:40:14 GMT -5
I am surprised also that Stanford hasn't done much in the way of recruiting over the past 4 seasons. They had Kathryn Plummer as a high-profile name for 2017, and 2018. Sure the team was comprised of a lot of indoor players, but wouldn't more beach only players be drawn to the program as a result?
I would think that Stanford would get a number of mid to high level recruits that could take spots from the indoor players (but they seem to rely on indoor players). The team added Sunny Villapando and Charlie Ekstrom, but not much more in the way of experienced beach players. Meanwhile many mid-tier teams are adding a lot of good recruits (that are maybe just out of the top-tier recruits), they are adding grad transfers, and foreign recruits.
Competitive teams like UH and Cal Poly have relied on indoor cross-over players in the past few years, and they have been lucky enough to add one high-school all-american per year, and then recruit some mid-tier players, have recruited from Canada, had a transfer each year, etc. They don't have the best coaching in place (at UH, Cal Poly has Todd Rogers), but have managed to stay in the top 5 (for UH with CP steadily improving) for the past few years. I would think Fuller should be able to do similar?
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Post by johnbar on Jan 19, 2020 15:42:32 GMT -5
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Post by trollhunter on Jan 20, 2020 13:36:59 GMT -5
I like Andrew, good guy, great sense of humor. That said, I’m not sure he’s an elite coach, and he’s made some mistakes...but I’m going cut him a little slack. He came to Stanford with zero funding, and had to depend on who Dunning was willing to send to him as well as a handful of walk on’s. Fortunately for Andrew, Dunning was very, very pro-beach. Unfortunately for Andrew, Dunning abruptly departed, and Hambly came in with a far different perspective. Suddenly, a bunch of indoor players disappeared from the beach roster, and since beach only recently became fully funded, the roster was pretty thin in terms of scholarship players. Then he lost the Nourses through no fault of his own, which was a massive blow to the program. However, now that he’s got some schollie money to toss around, things seem to be looking up - he’s got a really good freshman from Texas, and next season has three very good recruits led by Maya Harvey - who had her pick of every program in the country, and decommitted from UCLA to go to Stanford. I think Stanford has a chance to be decent this season, and progressively better over the next few years. geddyleeridesagain knows what is up as usual. I agree with every...single...point he makes. I know Andrew as well, great guy, friendly, helpful, etc. He is a good coach, not sure if elite, and has made mistakes like everyone. Me personally, I'd like to give him a break as he has also been "unlucky". However, fans and AD's are usually unforgiving - it is normal for the coach of a team not progressing to be let go and find a better fit. 41-41 record so far with 0 marquee wins and some ugly losses. P.S. Also, it is part of a coach's job to find a way to retain their stars - to get them to be invested in the program, avoid overuse injuries, to want to come back next year, delay pro/Olympic, appreciate their education/opportunity, not transfer, etc. Sometimes you have to make your own "luck".
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Post by trollhunter on Jan 20, 2020 14:12:32 GMT -5
Top 8 don't go to the Gulf... 3 from West.. 3 from the East and 2 at-large. so in the far too early to tell who'll be there poll. We'd be better off have a poll for the top 5 for each coast: 1.UCLA 2.USC 3.Hawaii 4. Pepperdine 5. Cal Poly 1. LSU 2. FSU 3. Stetson 4. FIU 5. USC I think that @micahlitt will be taking over my annual NCAA Beach bid analysis this year which is in the format you describe. My guesses at top 5 in each region are below West: UCLA USC CAL POLY / PEPPERDINE / HAWAII (all 3 teams with significant changes) East: FSU LSU South Carolina FIU Stetson
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Jan 20, 2020 15:03:09 GMT -5
I like Andrew, good guy, great sense of humor. That said, I’m not sure he’s an elite coach, and he’s made some mistakes...but I’m going cut him a little slack. He came to Stanford with zero funding, and had to depend on who Dunning was willing to send to him as well as a handful of walk on’s. Fortunately for Andrew, Dunning was very, very pro-beach. Unfortunately for Andrew, Dunning abruptly departed, and Hambly came in with a far different perspective. Suddenly, a bunch of indoor players disappeared from the beach roster, and since beach only recently became fully funded, the roster was pretty thin in terms of scholarship players. Then he lost the Nourses through no fault of his own, which was a massive blow to the program. However, now that he’s got some schollie money to toss around, things seem to be looking up - he’s got a really good freshman from Texas, and next season has three very good recruits led by Maya Harvey - who had her pick of every program in the country, and decommitted from UCLA to go to Stanford. I think Stanford has a chance to be decent this season, and progressively better over the next few years. geddyleeridesagain knows what is up as usual. I agree with every...single...point he makes. I know Andrew as well, great guy, friendly, helpful, etc. He is a good coach, not sure if elite, and has made mistakes like everyone. Me personally, I'd like to give him a break as he has also been "unlucky". However, fans and AD's are usually unforgiving - it is normal for the coach of a team not progressing to be let go and find a better fit. 41-41 record so far with 0 marquee wins and some ugly losses. P.S. Also, it is part of a coach's job to find a way to retain their stars - to get them to be invested in the program, avoid overuse injuries, to want to come back next year, delay pro/Olympic, appreciate their education/opportunity, not transfer, etc. Sometimes you have to make your own "luck". I have zero insight into the Stanford athletic director’s thought processes (come to think of it, I don’t even know the AD’s name), but this just might be ‘Drew’s make or break season. I don’t think Stanford needs to make NCAA’s or even finish top 10-12, but I do think they need to show improvement across the board and at a minimum eliminate those ugly losses.
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Post by johnbar on Jan 20, 2020 17:16:07 GMT -5
I have zero insight into the Stanford athletic director’s thought processes (come to think of it, I don’t even know the AD’s name), but this just might be ‘Drew’s make or break season. I don’t think Stanford needs to make NCAA’s or even finish top 10-12, but I do think they need to show improvement across the board and at a minimum eliminate those ugly losses. Agreed that they need to show improvement. If this isn't the "make or break" season, next year should be. The AD is Bernard Muir. His daughter, Millie, is a volleyball player at Sacred Heart Prep (Atherton), class of '22. Committed to Duke.
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Post by pd154 on Jan 20, 2020 21:56:59 GMT -5
In that situation it probably isnt his fault that he didnt beat UCLA, but Grand Canyon? Stetson? with the drawing power of Stanford's academics behind him? "Stanford's academics" is a double edged sword...
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Post by pd154 on Jan 20, 2020 22:15:31 GMT -5
In that situation it probably isnt his fault that he didnt beat UCLA, but Grand Canyon? Stetson? with the drawing power of Stanford's academics behind him? "Stanford's academics" is a double edged sword... Do you mean they should have beat Stetson? The team that beat the #1 team at the National Championships, have won their conference almost every year, which was by the way, the first beach volleyball conference, and I don't recall ever losing to Stanford.
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Post by guest2 on Jan 21, 2020 2:10:43 GMT -5
"Stanford's academics" is a double edged sword... Do you mean they should have beat Stetson? The team that beat the #1 team at the National Championships, have won their conference almost every year, which was by the way, the first beach volleyball conference, and I don't recall ever losing to Stanford. Either beaten them or offered their coach the Stanford job
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Post by bvb on Jan 21, 2020 13:13:56 GMT -5
Just to add some color to the challenges facing Fuller: For CA players, recruiting in the past has happened early. Many elite players on USC and UCLA were recruited and committed as high school freshmen. Stanford requires its athletes to be accepted prior to be granted entry to the program, even prior to announcing their commitment. So those athletes must give up the opportunities presented by other schools and wait until the summer of their Junior Year before they get provisionally accepted. If they are not, then they face the prospect of the other programs being full.
In addition, the academic requirements for, say, a UC school are maintaining a 2.5 GPA or better in the UC required core curriculum. Stanford requires a 3.75 GPA (slightly lower for the men's major sports) in rigorous AP coursework. In addition the ACT scores must be in the 31-35 range. The athlete has to weigh their confidence in maintaining that academic coursework while watching opportunities at other universities dwindle over their recruiting period. Given the small number of elite BVB programs and the limited number of scholarship opportunities available, it takes a level of commitment that might deter many elite players from Stanford.
That being said, the newer classes contain many elite players (i.e. sophomore Eckstrom, freshmen Kris, Berty, among others). Next year's class is outstanding.
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Post by guest2 on Jan 21, 2020 13:21:00 GMT -5
Just to add some color to the challenges facing Fuller: For CA players, recruiting in the past has happened early. Many elite players on USC and UCLA were recruited and committed as high school freshmen. Stanford requires its athletes to be accepted prior to be granted entry to the program, even prior to announcing their commitment. So those athletes must give up the opportunities presented by other schools and wait until the summer of their Junior Year before they get provisionally accepted. If they are not, then they face the prospect of the other programs being full. In addition, the academic requirements for, say, a UC school are maintaining a 2.5 GPA or better in the UC required core curriculum. Stanford requires a 3.75 GPA (slightly lower for the men's major sports) in rigorous AP coursework. In addition the ACT scores must be in the 31-35 range. The athlete has to weigh their confidence in maintaining that academic coursework while watching opportunities at other universities dwindle over their recruiting period. Given the small number of elite BVB programs and the limited number of scholarship opportunities available, it takes a level of commitment that might deter many elite players from Stanford. That being said, the newer classes contain many elite players (i.e. sophomore Eckstrom, freshmen Kris, Berty, among others). Next year's class is outstanding. Yep all those limitations really killing the tennis, water polo, indoor volleyball, swimming and soccer teams.
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Post by guest2 on Jan 21, 2020 13:30:37 GMT -5
I have zero insight into the Stanford athletic director’s thought processes (come to think of it, I don’t even know the AD’s name), but this just might be ‘Drew’s make or break season. I don’t think Stanford needs to make NCAA’s or even finish top 10-12, but I do think they need to show improvement across the board and at a minimum eliminate those ugly losses. Agreed that they need to show improvement. If this isn't the "make or break" season, next year should be. The AD is Bernard Muir. His daughter, Millie, is a volleyball player at Sacred Heart Prep (Atherton), class of '22. Committed to Duke. So Year 6 is Make or Break? They don't even need to make the top 12? Those are some incredibly low standards. Are there even 20 BVB programs with national aspirations? This is good enough for the most successful school in NCAA history when it comes to women's sports? The school that has twice as many women's team NCAA championships (with 9 to spare) as the 4th ranked team? The more I read the more it seems like an example of a man everyone likes getting a ridiculous amount of rope at one of the sports best jobs despite no real success.
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Post by trollhunter on Jan 21, 2020 14:28:54 GMT -5
Agreed that they need to show improvement. If this isn't the "make or break" season, next year should be. The AD is Bernard Muir. His daughter, Millie, is a volleyball player at Sacred Heart Prep (Atherton), class of '22. Committed to Duke. So Year 6 is Make or Break? They don't even need to make the top 12? Those are some incredibly low standards. Are there even 20 BVB programs with national aspirations? This is good enough for the most successful school in NCAA history when it comes to women's sports? The school that has twice as many women's team NCAA championships (with 9 to spare) as the 4th ranked team? The more I read the more it seems like an example of a man everyone likes getting a ridiculous amount of rope at one of the sports best jobs despite no real success. Aww, I was hoping guest2 wouldn't play her normal gender card in this thread. For the record: 1. Andrew has coached 3 seasons. This will be his 4th. If he makes it to the following season, it will be his 5th. 2. As I mentioned, I don't feel he should or will get a lot of rope. He must turn it around this year, or hope for a 1 year extension if he is lucky. 3. A 4 year contract is typical in NCAA DI, and a decent amount of time to determine if a coach can recruit and elevate the program. So far, it does not look good for him. 4. I don't believe that AVCA poll will (or should be) used in his evaluation. My guess is he needs all of these: a winning record, a couple of signature wins to show they can be competitive, and no bad losses. A tough task as he has failed in at least 2 of those 3 every year. And all 3 last year. 5. I still like him, and think he is a good coach for club, USAV and maybe a different university.
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Post by guest2 on Jan 21, 2020 16:01:08 GMT -5
So Year 6 is Make or Break? They don't even need to make the top 12? Those are some incredibly low standards. Are there even 20 BVB programs with national aspirations? This is good enough for the most successful school in NCAA history when it comes to women's sports? The school that has twice as many women's team NCAA championships (with 9 to spare) as the 4th ranked team? The more I read the more it seems like an example of a man everyone likes getting a ridiculous amount of rope at one of the sports best jobs despite no real success. Aww, I was hoping guest2 wouldn't play her normal gender card in this thread. For the record: 1. Andrew has coached 3 seasons. This will be his 4th. If he makes it to the following season, it will be his 5th. 2. As I mentioned, I don't feel he should or will get a lot of rope. He must turn it around this year, or hope for a 1 year extension if he is lucky. 3. A 4 year contract is typical in NCAA DI, and a decent amount of time to determine if a coach can recruit and elevate the program. So far, it does not look good for him. 4. I don't believe that AVCA poll will (or should be) used in his evaluation. My guess is he needs all of these: a winning record, a couple of signature wins to show they can be competitive, and no bad losses. A tough task as he has failed in at least 2 of those 3 every year. And all 3 last year. 5. I still like him, and think he is a good coach for club, USAV and maybe a different university. His, but you misread that. Substitute guy for man in that sentence. I referred to a brand of cronyism that does often benefit male coaches at the expense of female coaches but in this context I only blamed cronyism and didnt intend to refer to gender - although since you bring it up lots of female coaches doing better than Fuller with very little in the way of resources
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Post by pd154 on Jan 23, 2020 22:33:12 GMT -5
Pretty sure the GPA of the Stanford team is the main criteria for the people overseeing the coaches.
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