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Post by rtael on Sept 23, 2024 14:46:45 GMT -5
Still confused as to why people are ranking BYU. They have no ranked wins and a loss to USD. Miami is more deserving, at this point imo. Yes, this.
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Post by herecomesthebusboom on Sept 23, 2024 15:00:13 GMT -5
Why is Louisville being ranked below Creighton when they won the H2H? I’d swap them for 5 and 6, but I think the Top 4 is right. Because H2H isn't everything. By that logic SMU needs be rated ahead of Nebraska I mean I understand that H2H isn’t everything, but when teams are falling one ranking slot next to each other, it seems the H2H would probably be more important in that case, no? I wouldn’t rank SMU above Nebraska because of the totality of everything, but if we’re splitting hairs between deciding who is #5 and #6, I don’t see how the H2H doesn’t come into play more heavily. Not criticizing anyone’s ballot, I just want to understand the reasoning (and I’m obviously biased)
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Post by hornshouse23 on Sept 23, 2024 15:03:33 GMT -5
Hot take maybe but i dont think tennessee is a top 25 team atp lol cajic reading this rn 😔 75 kills in 5 sets incoming.
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Post by hornshouse23 on Sept 23, 2024 15:07:07 GMT -5
oops. I keep doing this. Western Michigan was 26 on mine for some reason. excuse me, what?! they’re 4-7 with losses to UC San Diego, Clemson, High Point, James Madison, and more😭 I meant 2023 western Michigan.
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Post by bbg95 on Sept 23, 2024 15:20:00 GMT -5
Because H2H isn't everything. By that logic SMU needs be rated ahead of Nebraska I mean I understand that H2H isn’t everything, but when teams are falling one ranking slot next to each other, it seems the H2H would probably be more important in that case, no? I wouldn’t rank SMU above Nebraska because of the totality of everything, but if we’re splitting hairs between deciding who is #5 and #6, I don’t see how the H2H doesn’t come into play more heavily. Not criticizing anyone’s ballot, I just want to understand the reasoning (and I’m obviously biased) Agreed. SMU and Nebraska are not a good comparison. SMU has three losses while Nebraska has one. Meanwhile, Louisville and Creighton both have two losses, and Louisville won the head-to-head matchup. So at this point in time, Louisville > Creighton for me.
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Post by baytree on Sept 23, 2024 15:28:53 GMT -5
Because H2H isn't everything. By that logic SMU needs be rated ahead of Nebraska I mean I understand that H2H isn’t everything, but when teams are falling one ranking slot next to each other, it seems the H2H would probably be more important in that case, no? I wouldn’t rank SMU above Nebraska because of the totality of everything, but if we’re splitting hairs between deciding who is #5 and #6, I don’t see how the H2H doesn’t come into play more heavily. Not criticizing anyone’s ballot, I just want to understand the reasoning (and I’m obviously biased) "when teams are falling one ranking slot next to each other, it seems the H2H would probably be more important in that case, no? "
I'd say no. If I think h2h should be 25% of the total, I shouldn't change that to 55% just bc the two teams end up next to each other in my ranking. If I'm going to do that for one team, I should rethink how much of a factor it should be and change it for everyone.
Just bc two teams are right next to each other on my list does not mean I think they're close. It might. Sometimes I have two - four teams on the same line (e.g., position 5) when I'm making my ballot and sometimes I think there is a big gap between, e.g., 5 and 6. If I'd bump 6 in that case, I'd essentially be saying that h2h is all that really matters.
In this case, Louisville beat Creighton but it was on Louisville's court and took five sets. Creighton had more points than Louisville, which does not matter at all to some ppl but to others it indicates that Creighton would be favored in a rematch, esp one on a neutral court (or at Creighton). Some ppl think the ranking should reflect how teams have done so far, others think it should be a prediction of how teams would do if they met now, others on how teams will do over the season (and other criteria). I understand why some ppl rank Creighton over Louisville even though Louisville beat Creighton.
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Post by pavsec5row10 on Sept 23, 2024 15:39:13 GMT -5
Looks like you’ve got Florida in there twice. Who would have been your other team? I just removed the #21 Florida ranking and there were only 24 teams. This actually happed on two different ballots, but the other ballot had Marquette at 21 and 24. Guessing Florida State was the 2nd Florida ranking.
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Post by bbg95 on Sept 23, 2024 15:59:31 GMT -5
Another thing about Louisville and Creighton is that Louisville won that fifth set decisively. They were up 6-2 and 12-4 before winning 15-8. So while they may have been outscored overall, I don't really care about that (after all, the name of the game in volleyball is to win three sets before your opponent does--scoring more points is just a means to that end). They won the first two sets to give them a cushion and then the fifth set handily.
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Post by herecomesthebusboom on Sept 23, 2024 16:03:04 GMT -5
I mean I understand that H2H isn’t everything, but when teams are falling one ranking slot next to each other, it seems the H2H would probably be more important in that case, no? I wouldn’t rank SMU above Nebraska because of the totality of everything, but if we’re splitting hairs between deciding who is #5 and #6, I don’t see how the H2H doesn’t come into play more heavily. Not criticizing anyone’s ballot, I just want to understand the reasoning (and I’m obviously biased) "when teams are falling one ranking slot next to each other, it seems the H2H would probably be more important in that case, no? "
I'd say no. If I think h2h should be 25% of the total, I shouldn't change that to 55% just bc the two teams end up next to each other in my ranking. If I'm going to do that for one team, I should rethink how much of a factor it should be and change it for everyone.
Just bc two teams are right next to each other on my list does not mean I think they're close. It might. Sometimes I have two - four teams on the same line (e.g., position 5) when I'm making my ballot and sometimes I think there is a big gap between, e.g., 5 and 6. If I'd bump 6 in that case, I'd essentially be saying that h2h is all that really matters.
In this case, Louisville beat Creighton but it was on Louisville's court and took five sets. Creighton had more points than Louisville, which does not matter at all to some ppl but to others it indicates that Creighton would be favored in a rematch, esp one on a neutral court (or at Creighton). Some ppl think the ranking should reflect how teams have done so far, others think it should be a prediction of how teams would do if they met now, others on how teams will do over the season (and other criteria). I understand why some ppl rank Creighton over Louisville even though Louisville beat Creighton.
Thank you for this explanation, I can totally see that point of view.
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Post by gobigredno1 on Sept 23, 2024 19:22:17 GMT -5
At this point in the season I think it is pretty obvious Pitt should be the #1 team and for #2 and #3 it doesn't really matter if it is Nebraska or Penn St as they both have one loss and you could easily put one over the other. I think for the Creighton/Louisville conversation yes you have the h2h for Louisville but they also both played Nebraska and Creighton faired better in Lincoln did Louisville did at their own home so that could be a reasoning for some ranking them higher as well. It is all just a matter how each person looks at it.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Sept 23, 2024 19:27:22 GMT -5
1. Pitt 2. Nebraska 3. Penn state 4. Creighton 5. Stanford 6. Texas 7. Louisville 8. Oregon 9. Wisconsin 10. Kentucky 11. Oregon 12. TCU 13. Florida 14. Arizona state 15, Georgia tech 16. Kansas 17. Minnesota 18. Baylor 19. SMU 20. Washington 21. USC 22. Tennessee 23. Dayton 24. Marquette 25. FSU
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Post by stevehorn on Sept 23, 2024 20:20:42 GMT -5
Because H2H isn't everything. By that logic SMU needs be rated ahead of Nebraska I mean I understand that H2H isn’t everything, but when teams are falling one ranking slot next to each other, it seems the H2H would probably be more important in that case, no? I wouldn’t rank SMU above Nebraska because of the totality of everything, but if we’re splitting hairs between deciding who is #5 and #6, I don’t see how the H2H doesn’t come into play more heavily. Not criticizing anyone’s ballot, I just want to understand the reasoning (and I’m obviously biased) Must remember that a poll is the compilation of the individual poll by a number of people. So if two teams are next to each other in the compiled poll, it doesn't mean that almost all of the voters had those two teams next to each other. It's possible they did, but more likely the majority had them 2 or 3 spots different. So there are multiple opinions compiled into the polls on the two teams (and all the others). In other words, it's not one person splitting hairs on #5 and #6. Also as the season goes along, a particular H2H typically is reduced in value because you have more additional data points for consideration and cumulative data tends to become more important than single point data. Even though your game with Creighton was a short time ago, both teams played two significant matches last week so there is additional data points for poll voters to consider.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Sept 23, 2024 20:32:24 GMT -5
1. Pitt 2. Nebraska 3. Penn state 4. Creighton 5. Stanford 6. Texas 7. Louisville 8. Oregon 9. Wisconsin 10. Kentucky 11. Oregon 12. TCU 13. Florida 14. Arizona state 15, Georgia tech 16. Kansas 17. Minnesota 18. Baylor 19. SMU 20. Washington 21. USC 22. Tennessee 23. Dayton 24. Marquette 25. FSU Oh I had Oregon twice I would of added BYU I guess?
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Post by hornshouse23 on Sept 23, 2024 20:47:07 GMT -5
1. Pitt 2. Nebraska 3. Penn state 4. Creighton 5. Stanford 6. Texas 7. Louisville 8. Oregon 9. Wisconsin 10. Kentucky 11. Oregon 12. TCU 13. Florida 14. Arizona state 15, Georgia tech 16. Kansas 17. Minnesota 18. Baylor 19. SMU 20. Washington 21. USC 22. Tennessee 23. Dayton 24. Marquette 25. FSU Oh I had Oregon twice I would have added BYU I guess? Doubling teams for me is when I try to make meaningful changes after 12 or so, but it all just gets jumbled up. Oops but it happens
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Post by eazy on Sept 23, 2024 22:29:31 GMT -5
Because H2H isn't everything. By that logic SMU needs be rated ahead of Nebraska I mean I understand that H2H isn’t everything, but when teams are falling one ranking slot next to each other, it seems the H2H would probably be more important in that case, no? I wouldn’t rank SMU above Nebraska because of the totality of everything, but if we’re splitting hairs between deciding who is #5 and #6, I don’t see how the H2H doesn’t come into play more heavily. Not criticizing anyone’s ballot, I just want to understand the reasoning (and I’m obviously biased) I believe AVCA and VolleyballMag had them switched, likely because of that rationale. I would guess that VT simply had a bit more of a recency bias. It was very recent AND very lopsided. If they had been swept on Tuesday night instead of Sunday OR had taken a set or two from Nebraska, far less people would have ranked Creighton higher.
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