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Post by dishdaball on Sept 8, 2006 10:10:31 GMT -5
the way I see it - if I'm Hawaii I send fans aka boosters to each of the other schools Klineman is visiting with signs in hand....make it really interesting ;D
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Post by pineapple on Sept 8, 2006 13:24:25 GMT -5
Control fans? For rowdiness, yes! but for waving signs to get a recruit to choose their school? Hey, this is freedom of speech, shouldn't be regulated in my opinion. ... On the other hand, booster clubs, registered donors, faculty and even students can be held accountable once they sign agreement to comply with recruitment regulations, and they are readily identifiable. How do you tell the difference between a fan waving a sign at a game, and a booster club member waving a sign at a game? I don't know about the other schools, but at least in MN, boosters aren't required to dye their hair maroon or gold (even though I did), and fans aren't prevented from doing so. No, no, no, no, no.That is not how it stands. The NCAA rules are explicit about who is a booster, and being a "fan in the stands" isn't enough to turn you into one. That said, the compliance officer is -- at least when he makes comments about the ideal athletic world he'd like to work in -- going to try and get all fans to behave as if they were boosters, because he has no ready mechanism for identifying the boosters among the ordinary fans. According to the NCAA regulations, if you have been involved in a school’s athletic program in any way, or promoted the program, you are booster. Unless this criteria is delineated and made more definitive, you become a booster simply by attending the school’s games and cheering them on.
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Post by pineapple on Sept 8, 2006 13:27:26 GMT -5
the way I see it - if I'm Hawaii I send fans aka boosters to each of the other schools Klineman is visiting with signs in hand....make it really interesting ;D Although spoke with tongue in cheek, you are enlightened.
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Post by pineapple on Sept 8, 2006 13:32:27 GMT -5
Criteria for determining who is a booster:
1)You participated in any organization promoting the school’s athletic program; 2)You made financial contribution to the school’s athletic program; 3)You have helped to arrange employment of, or provided any benefits to, prospective or enrolled student-athletes; 4) You have ever been a season ticket holder in any sport.
As it stands now, the criteria contains vague language as follows: follows:
5)You have been involved in a school’s athletic program in any way, or promoted the program.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Sept 8, 2006 13:35:06 GMT -5
So, is being a booster like citizenship? Can you have dual-boostership?
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Post by pineapple on Sept 8, 2006 13:39:13 GMT -5
A possible fix:
Definition of booster: You have been involved in a school’s athletic program or promoted the program. Criteria for determining promotion and involvement:
1)You participated in any organization promoting the school’s athletic program; 2)You made financial contribution to the school’s athletic program; 3)You have helped to arrange employment of, or provided any benefits to, prospective or enrolled student-athletes; 4)You have ever been a season ticket holder in any sport.
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Post by BearClause on Sept 8, 2006 13:51:51 GMT -5
I think the key situation here was that the volleyball match is a "controlled environment". It's in the best interests of any athletic dept to show that they are taking "good faith" steps to prevent non-athletic dept recruiting pitches from happening in their gym. Some noted that recruits at their schools were given identification specifically requesting that fans not disturb a recruit on a visit.
This is what I would do (and some of these steps were taken):
1) Direct the event staff to ask anyone holding a "recruiting sign" to put it away. 2) Contact the coaching staff and athletic dept staff to get them to correct this kind of thing quickly and quietly in the future. 3) Ask the broadcast crew to avoid noting such signs.
Honestly this kind of thing is likely to be no more than a minor self-reported violation. However - these things add up and most compliance officials are trying to avoid a laundry list of secondary infractions that could result in the NCAA requesting more serious corrective actions. There are schools that have been making serious efforts to avoid "unauthorized" recruiting channels (the Kentucky fans posting to a recruit's Myspace site is a prime example), and it would be a mockery of such efforts to let these kind of things slide.
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Post by pineapple on Sept 8, 2006 13:54:59 GMT -5
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the guy who enlightened me on the regulations.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 8, 2006 16:07:00 GMT -5
Then control the fans and don't allow them to put her (or the school) in that position. Control fans? For rowdiness, yes! but for waving signs to get a recruit to choose their school? Hey, this is freedom of speech, shouldn't be regulated in my opinion. The US Constitution doesn't gaurantee you "freedom of speech" at private venues such as a school's arenas. You attend a game / match at a school by purchasing a ticket to said game / match. Once you've purchased the ticket and used it to gain entrance to the event you've committed to following the rules of the school. Some of those school rules include NCAA rules if the school is part of the NCAA. Every ticket that I've purchased for attendence to a collegiate event has has a plethora of fine print on the tickets regarding behavior and other things. It is easy to control the fans in the instances of waving signs attempting to sway the mind of a potential recruit by taking those signs away from any fans that bring them into the arena. If some fans manage to get them to their seats and start waving them it is easy to take them away from those fans while they're waving the signs. If fans have the signs painted on their bodies it is easy to tell those fans to cover up the paint with clothing or they'll be removed from the arena. The UH compliance officer isn't being a "party pooper" by trying to prevent fans from potentially committing NCAA recruiting violations that could possibly result in sanctions against UH.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Sept 8, 2006 16:30:19 GMT -5
The UH ticket fine print says this:
'This is a revocable license and may be taken up and admission refused upon refunding the purchase price appearing theron. It is understood that the license granted by this ticket is for the purpose of viewing the event (exhibition, display, game or affair) only as an eyewitness. This ticket if lost,stolen, or destroyed, will not be replaced or refunded. The University will not be responsible for injuries suffered by the holder arising out of or resulting from the performance or presentation of the event for which this ticket is issued. NO EXCHANGES. NO REFUNDS'
Note, that is verbatim.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 8, 2006 18:17:06 GMT -5
"It is understood that the license granted by this ticket is for the purpose of viewing the event (exhibition, display, game or affair) only as an eyewitness."
So it doesn't explicitly give you, the attendee, the right to potentially violate NCAA rules by waving signs attempting to sway the minds of potential recruits.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Sept 8, 2006 18:23:04 GMT -5
"It is understood that the license granted by this ticket is for the purpose of viewing the event (exhibition, display, game or affair) only as an eyewitness." So it doesn't explicitly give you, the attendee, the right to potentially violate NCAA rules by waving signs attempting to sway the minds of potential recruits. Yeah... but it doesn't NOT give you permission... it's vague on purpose. I think the biggest issue with this ordeal wasn't the signs, but the lack of shirts. Which is crazy because on campus, you see bikini tops only and bare-chests all the time... especially during good swells close to campus.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Sept 8, 2006 18:23:47 GMT -5
Also, if I were to sneak in, then I COULD sue the school, it seems, if I were injured... interesting wording there! Now we know how Wolfgang got rich.
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Post by pineapple on Sept 8, 2006 18:53:40 GMT -5
Gorf, the regulations cover a broader area than what you're talking about. If I should talk to a highly taunted recruit who by chance sat next to me a McDonald's and tell her about how good the UH is, I'd be liable for violating the regulations, merely because I am a fan of UH, regardless if she was the one who initiated the discussion. This is what I am referring to, not so much, or only about, fans who display signs at games. If what you say about the fine prints on a ticket is correct, although IB did point out the vagueness of UH's ticket's fine print, then certainly fans taking in the games can be said to be subject to the regulations. But I would question the NCAA if it tried to shut me up at McDonald's.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 8, 2006 19:20:14 GMT -5
If you know the person you're sitting next to is a recruit then you know you need to be careful.
You're following an NCAA regulated collegiate sport.
If you don't know the person you're sitting next to is a recruit and you speak to her about the benefits of attending UH you're still potentially creating an NCAA recruiting violation. Since it is unintended the "punishment" wouldn't likely be as severe as it would be if you knew it was a recruit.
OTOH: Allowing a potential highly regarded recruit to be randomly speaking to anyone at a McDonalds (or anywhere) regarding her decision on which school to attend would be a major problem on the part of the school's recruiters. They bring the recruits in, they usher them around the campus with escorts that ought to know better that to allow the recruit to have contact with anyone at random and discuss her status as a recruit.
You're making a big case out of a situation that isn't very likely to happen if the school's recruiters, NCAA compliance officers, and those they entrust the recruit's time on campus with are doing what is required of them during the recruit's time on campus.
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