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Post by Gorf on Sept 9, 2006 14:53:54 GMT -5
Surely you jest, Hawaii holds this title easily. Nearly 19 years says it all... Can't have it both bik - either Hawaii has dropped from the levels of elite programs or they are HUGE chokers. Now we all know UH is still an elite program therefore... 18 Seasons!!! Many of the bright-eyed freshman wandering around the UH campus this year weren't even born the last time UH won a title. That is how long it's been. Biggest choke years: 88, 89, 95, 96, 98, 99, 04, 05 Medium choke years: 91, 94, 00, 02, 03 Even when the Wahine have had their best teams, they have never been considered the odds on favorites to win the National title, so choking doesn't really apply to the National Title question. 88 is the only year where Hawai'i could have been considered to have choked away the Title. You're going to have to explain how they "choked" in the other years you listed cause aside from 95 & 99 where choking has a valid entry, I just don't see it. Nebraska and Penn State for example have been knocked out of the tourney by lesser ranked, lesser touted opponents in years where they were "The" favorites to win the title. Even a Hawai'i basher like you should be able to realize the difference. Hosting a regional, expected to make it to the Final Four and failing to live up to those expectations? Weren't they expected to make it to the Final Four instead of LBSU in 1999 when the Wahine hosted it? I had a nice 3+ weeks on the islands anyhow.
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Post by pineapple on Sept 9, 2006 14:54:54 GMT -5
I beleive but will stand corrected if wrong that UCLA has had a handful of pre-NCAA titles.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Sept 9, 2006 14:55:20 GMT -5
Nooooo, it's because he mentioned Hawaii is still an elite program. They obviously are an elite program with many, many FinalFour appearances over the last 5, 10 and 25 years. Thus the point of my post. BIK contributes another swipe at any non-west coast/hawaii team once again with a 'choker' label started by a Stanford fan. I was just simply pointing out how rediculous the pot/kettle/black situation he started as a Hawaii fan. I'm sure many UH fans still find the Texas/LBSU++/MichSt/TexasAM/Stanford/Florida++ matches' endings to the season very disappointing. These were all matches UH were expected to win, had the match in hand but then lost, or matches that many felt they had a shot at winning but UH didn't really show up. Hawai'i was only expected to win the Texas, Michigan State, and Texas A&M matches. As for Florida, Hawai'i was the underdog in the 98 match and in 2003, neither team was favored over the other. Hawai'i lost to some of the Beach's best teams, and aside from 89, I don't recall them every being the favorite. Aside from 2003, Hawai'i has never been favored against Stanford. Nebraska and PSU have had more than their share of disappointing ends to their season as has every elite program, but not nearly as many as UH. Hawai'i has been around longer than either the Nittany Lion or Husker programs but both have choked more than Hawai'i. Penn State last season was a prime example.
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Post by pineapple on Sept 9, 2006 14:57:03 GMT -5
I really don't know what Gorf's beef is. Doesn't he appear to be demeaning Hawaii?
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Sept 9, 2006 14:57:51 GMT -5
Even when the Wahine have had their best teams, they have never been considered the odds on favorites to win the National title, so choking doesn't really apply to the National Title question. 88 is the only year where Hawai'i could have been considered to have choked away the Title. You're going to have to explain how they "choked" in the other years you listed cause aside from 95 & 99 where choking has a valid entry, I just don't see it. Nebraska and Penn State for example have been knocked out of the tourney by lesser ranked, lesser touted opponents in years where they were "The" favorites to win the title. Even a Hawai'i basher like you should be able to realize the difference. Hosting a regional, expected to make it to the Final Four and failing to live up to those expectations? Weren't they expected to make it to the Final Four instead of LBSU in 1999 when the Wahine hosted it? I had a nice 3+ weeks on the islands anyhow. That happened just TWICE, in 95 and 99. Need I mentioned how Minnesota choked in 2004? That was a choke of monumental porportions.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 9, 2006 14:58:32 GMT -5
So what if Hawaii has not won a title in the past 18 years. How many schools have won a title in those years? Hawaii is still one of the top programs in the country. (right, 2c? Make Gorf c 2) I would but I don't think he ever implied that UH wasn't an elite program, just an elite program with its greatest accomplishments approaching 2 decades old and 3 titles in the current age of college sports and 1 back when there were what 30 programs or so - more like a club vb env. Gorf, do you feel Hawaii is not an elite program? Honest question, how many vb teams were members of the AWCA??? back when UH won their first title? 50? 100? I really don't know, I just know Utah State was a contender for titles then so... I like Hawaii, I always cheer for them (except when I don't.) I don't think they've been at the elite level for the past couple of years, but generally they're at that level. I guess to some extent it depends on your definitiojn of elite. Hawaii hasn't made it to the "elite" eight for a couple of years so that would be my definition of not being a elite program during that time frame.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 9, 2006 15:01:00 GMT -5
I really don't know what Gorf's beef is. Doesn't he appear to be demeaning Hawaii? No, I'm exposing your double standard in complaining about others leaving out information in their comments while you do the same yourself.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Sept 9, 2006 15:01:50 GMT -5
I would but I don't think he ever implied that UH wasn't an elite program, just an elite program with its greatest accomplishments approaching 2 decades old and 3 titles in the current age of college sports and 1 back when there were what 30 programs or so - more like a club vb env. Gorf, do you feel Hawaii is not an elite program? Honest question, how many vb teams were members of the AWCA??? back when UH won their first title? 50? 100? I really don't know, I just know Utah State was a contender for titles then so... I like Hawaii, I always cheer for them (except when I don't.) I don't think they've been at the elite level for the past couple of years, but generally they're at that level. I guess to some extent it depends on your definitiojn of elite. Hawaii hasn't made it to the "elite" eight for a couple of years so that would be my definition of not being a elite program during that time frame. So by your own definition, Tennessee and Santa Clara are "Elite" programs?
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Post by pineapple on Sept 9, 2006 15:02:31 GMT -5
GOrf, please answer.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 9, 2006 15:07:05 GMT -5
Hosting a regional, expected to make it to the Final Four and failing to live up to those expectations? Weren't they expected to make it to the Final Four instead of LBSU in 1999 when the Wahine hosted it? I had a nice 3+ weeks on the islands anyhow. That happened just TWICE, in 95 and 99. Need I mentioned how Minnesota choked in 2004? That was a choke of monumental porportions. You asked how they choked, I mention the years they hosted regionals and didn't make it to the final four. The Gophers weren't expected to make it to the Final Four in 2003. The Gophers weren't expected to get by USC in 2004. How are either of those chokes when they got further in the tournament than expected? Everyone but Florida got clobbered by Stanford in 2004. Certainly as a fan it was a disappointment to see the Gophers lose to Stanford in the championship match, however, as much as I hoped / wanted / dreamed of a national championship Stanford was the better team in that match. Ogonna was simply amazing as she had been during the entire run in the NCAA and in matches leading up to the tournament.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 9, 2006 15:07:56 GMT -5
I like Hawaii, I always cheer for them (except when I don't.) I don't think they've been at the elite level for the past couple of years, but generally they're at that level. I guess to some extent it depends on your definitiojn of elite. Hawaii hasn't made it to the "elite" eight for a couple of years so that would be my definition of not being a elite program during that time frame. So by your own definition, Tennessee and Santa Clara are "Elite" programs? They certainly were last year.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 9, 2006 15:08:50 GMT -5
Answer what? You keep changing your mind on what you want.
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Post by pineapple on Sept 9, 2006 15:09:21 GMT -5
Answer BiK. you did, but was lame.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 9, 2006 15:10:46 GMT -5
You'd certainly know about lame, eh?
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Post by pineapple on Sept 9, 2006 15:11:52 GMT -5
GOrf, regarding the 18 years, do you realize how great the UH has been? How may final 4's theyve been in? How many schools can come up to UH's record in this regard? Can't you count?
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