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Post by Gorf on May 9, 2004 7:50:20 GMT -5
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on May 9, 2004 12:18:20 GMT -5
Gee the majority of the American media wouldn't show the bodies of Americans being dragged through the streets of Fallujah and hung from a bridge but it's okay to show Americans dragging Iraqi prisoners around with a leash? It's okay to show an Iraqi with his face being covered by a women's panty? I guess as far as the Media is concerned, American lives are not as important as the way Iraqi POW's get treated. Rumsfeld won't resign. People calling for his resignation are idiots without an understanding of the fallout a Rumsfeld resignation would cause. Clearly, it would be a victory for Anti Americans all over the world. Some people need to put their priorities in check and realize what the hell is going on, JACKASSES!! Negative responses to my comment will be deleted.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2004 15:10:18 GMT -5
BiK, did you forget? We're supposed to be the Good Guys in this whole mess.
This is Bush's fault and it's about time he was held responsible. He invaded Iraq under false pretenses (he may have lied, he may have been misled) and he had NO plan for how to deal with the aftermath--including how to run the prisons.
I'm tired of everyone apologizing for GW. He needs to be held accountable.
This was his dirty little war. All of the consequences are his to keep.
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Post by Gorf on May 9, 2004 20:05:58 GMT -5
Gee the majority of the American media wouldn't show the bodies of Americans being dragged through the streets of Fallujah and hung from a bridge but it's okay to show Americans dragging Iraqi prisoners around with a leash? It's okay to show an Iraqi with his face being covered by a women's panty? I guess as far as the Media is concerned, American lives are not as important as the way Iraqi POW's get treated. You don't see a difference between showing mutilated bodies and showing someone still living being tortured and humilated? Of course he won't, that would take admitting he did something wrong. Rather than basically plead the 5th in saying he didn't know what was going on and half heartedly say "It happened on my shift so I'm responsible" to do more of the same old saying anything to placate people temporarily. Having him stay in office certainly isn't doing much other than foster more anti-american sentiment around the world. I'm glad we agree on something. Rummy and his ilk need to wake up and see what they've managed to get the country into under fals pretenses and without having plans to do anything other than "shock and awe" and wait for the Iraqi's to faint and give up. It is truly amazing that with Rummy being such a total control freak how many "communication's failures" just seem to "happen" under his charge that leave him a nice case of "plausible deniability" from "not knowing" what happened in situations like the abuses to the Iraqi prisoners. Why is that he knew of the extent of the treatment of prisoners, knew there were pictures, yet somehow never once bothered to ask to see those pictures until some of them were leaked to the media? Why is that he insisted on signing off on the similar harsh treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay yet we're supposed to believe he was clueless about the same thing happening in Iraq?
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Post by Gorf on May 10, 2004 9:10:02 GMT -5
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Post by vierra on May 10, 2004 13:41:22 GMT -5
Yeah, Rumsfeld is in a whole heap of manure. Good joke following (at end...)
I hope you realize that the identity of the Political Party that was associated with starting the war is irrelevant; that is, it doesn't matter if it was a Republican administration or a Democratic administration. These atrocities would probably have happened because there are dumbasses in the military who are severely emotionally troubled. Their psychotic nature manifests itself into brutalities against their fellow human beings. Or when they were young, brutalities against pets and other animals/insects, like frying their legs off. Military jocks are deeply troubled people.
Anyway...
There's a father who had two sons -- Pete and Oliver. Pete was a pessimist and Oliver was an optimist. For Christmas, the father gave Pete the pessimist a bicycle and Oliver the optimist a pile of manure.
Pete took one look at the bicycle and complained. "The tire is flat, the frame is too heavy for me to carry it around, and it's a racing bike, not a mountain bike which I really want. It's also red, and I wanted blue."
The father groaned. "That's Pete the pessimist."
The father then checked on Oliver. The pile of manure was delivered to the family's barn out in the fields. When the father poked his head in the barn, Oliver was nowhere in sight. The manure however, was scattered about on the barn floor which shocked him because he had the delivery truck set it up nicely in one huge pile. Then, he saw manure flying out from the pile and heard sounds from inside. Oliver was inside the pile of manure shoveling like crazy and scooping the manure out of the pile onto the barn floor.
"Oliver!" yelled the father. "What are you doing?!"
"Father," replied Oliver. "I can't thank you enough for this gift."
"Why is that?"
"Well," said Oliver. "With all this shiit, there has to be one awesome pony underneath!"
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on May 10, 2004 15:12:36 GMT -5
Rumsfeld won't resign, nor will he be forced out by the Ass leadership, and that's the end of it!! I couldn't care less about the anti American sentiment. I care for our troops and their families but the American haters around the world can kiss my American ass, screw em! If they don't like it, do something about it so the Eagle can release it's talons once more on your sorry asses.
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Post by Gorf on May 10, 2004 18:47:54 GMT -5
I care for our troops and their families... As in caring for those soldiers that will now be given dishonorable discharges, be court martialed, or worse because Rummy was either clueless or worse actually knew what was happening in the Iraqi prisons and did absolutely nothing to stop it? As in caring for the MP's who's lives are potentially ruined because they were given little if any training in handling prisoners and were taking orders from CIA and Civilian contractor operatives that basically had total autonomy in regards to the level of abusive treatment they had the MP's perform on the Iraqi prisoners? You can't reasonably excuse that the MP's DID perform the active of abusive treatment on Iraqi prisoners, however, I've not heard of any valid / good reasons for putting them in the position of being ordered to perform such acts in the first place. Rumsfeld is culpable of knowing and willingly putting his unprepared troops into that situation. Regardless of whether he was simply clueless or he knew what was happening and didn't care he has yet again been a total embarassment for our country.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on May 10, 2004 20:11:31 GMT -5
>-(Gorf)-<[} link=board=news&thread=1083834849&start=37#2 date=1084232874] As in caring for those soldiers that will now be given dishonorable discharges, be court martialed, or worse because Rummy was either clueless or worse actually knew what was happening in the Iraqi prisons and did absolutely nothing to stop it? As in caring for the MP's who's lives are potentially ruined because they were given little if any training in handling prisoners and were taking orders from CIA and Civilian contractor operatives that basically had total autonomy in regards to the level of abusive treatment they had the MP's perform on the Iraqi prisoners? You can't reasonably excuse that the MP's DID perform the active of abusive treatment on Iraqi prisoners, however, I've not heard of any valid / good reasons for putting them in the position of being ordered to perform such acts in the first place. Rumsfeld is culpable of knowing and willingly putting his unprepared troops into that situation. Regardless of whether he was simply clueless or he knew what was happening and didn't care he has yet again been a total embarassment for our country. SILENCE!!How dare you utter such a reply! I demand an apology!
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Post by Gorf on May 11, 2004 2:02:05 GMT -5
SILENCE!!How dare you utter such a reply! I demand an apology! I apoloigize that you haven't taken the time to buy your clues about the Bushy Brigade yet. I'm sure the sales representative for said clues meant to make you a great deal on the purchase. I shall endeavor to get in touch with them soonish to make sure they make you an offer you can't refuse.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on May 11, 2004 14:35:07 GMT -5
>-(Gorf)-<[} link=board=news&thread=1083834849&start=39#2 date=1084258925] I shall endeavor to get in touch with them soonish to make sure they make you an offer you can't refuse. There is no such offer. I'll never give in to Marxists!
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Post by Gorf on May 11, 2004 16:54:04 GMT -5
I'll never give in to Marxists! That's unfortunate. I thought you'd do quite well taking over the role of Groucho.
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Post by midwestfan on May 11, 2004 21:47:29 GMT -5
Can someone please explain to me why everyone is being blamed for this except the people who actually did it?
It's not President Bush's or Rumsfeld's fault. If it's anyone fault beside those involved, it should be their parents.
Their parents were the ones responsible for instilling a moral compass, ethics and a value for life in these people. These people had no regard for life. They had no humanity and certainly no compassion.
Neither the President, the Secretary of Defense or even the Comander of the troops can possibly control or know everything that goes on. It is ridiculous to think so. How many thousands of troops do we have? Actually I should say hundreds of thousands?
It is only "liberal" thinking that thinks that someone other than those at fault can possibily be responsible for these acts.
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Post by benwhipdrofn on May 11, 2004 23:14:32 GMT -5
yeah......a voice of reason........ but Midwest it is so much easier to put the blame on someone else. It is election year. ) In election year, it's time to blame the president or the other guy. AT a tennis meet this week, there was the same discussion going on, but just different versions of it. Everyone agrees that we need to stay and finish the job, then get out as soon as we can. I actually heard someone say it was ok what happened to the prisioner because they were dealing with barbaric individuals to begin with. I couldn't believe it. Then I heard a parent say, most likely osama was dead because he was dying of liver cancer a while ago anyway. There is so much going around and no one wants to actually say...I was wrong I shouldn't have done it. We want to blame others that didn't have anything to do with it. Blame the people who actually did it, blame the parents who possible did not bring them up in a home that understood, you just don't do these types of thing...you don't crawl in the gutter with those in the gutter.
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Post by midwestfan on May 11, 2004 23:30:37 GMT -5
Well, we live in a society of victums ... "it's not my fault!" We blame everyone or everything instead of taking responsibility for our thoughts, our words or our actions. And to add to this ludicy, we think that our government can fix everything instead of trying to do for ourselves. Also, is the thought that "nothing bad should happen to anyone." I can't begin to count the number of times I've heard, "we want to make sure this never happens again." No one can ensure that. It is ridiculous!
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