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Post by Vball818 on Apr 28, 2005 16:49:39 GMT -5
A quote from today's Daily Bruin "I realize that there is a long road ahead of us," UCLA coach Al Scates said. "But I feel confident about our chances of receiving an at-large bid." Coach Scates attitude has never wavered - always consistent at being so sure. It's a characteristic that many admire and despise. From Coach Mike Wilton(Hawai'i) - "UCLA has had a very nice record and has been ranked No. ! for a large part of the season," Hawaii coach Mike Wilton said. "I think the selection committee would definitely take that into consideration despite their postseason loss." And, The 49ers are 12-2 in their last 14 matches and have defeated each of the top five teams in the MPSF during that time. For UCSB coach Ken Preston, the 49ers are a lock for the at-large bid if Pepperdine secures the title. "They are the hottest team in the country right now," Preston said. "If they reach the MPSF final, they will have advance two rounds farther than the Bruins and they should receive the at-large bid for sure." To read the entire article -
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Post by Vball818 on Apr 28, 2005 17:30:57 GMT -5
A question of ethics: Should Pepperdine intentionally lose, ruining UCLA's NCAA Tournament chances?
1. Yes
Pepperdine coach Marv Duncy said he can't even fathom throwing one of his MPSF playoff matches this weekend, but don't blame him if he reconsiders.
Sure, there are ethical issues to losing on purpose. Yes, it could be momentum killer for his top-ranked team. But consider this: Pepperdine hasn't won a nationanl title in men's volleyball in 13 years.
So if Dunphy thinks the Waves can make their path to a second championship easier by losing this weekend and effectively knocking second-ranked UCLA out of contention for an at-large bid, then that's exactly what he should tell him team to do.
Dunphy is saying all the right things: that the only way for the Waves to guarantee themselves an NCAA Tournament berth is to win their semifinal match against Cal State Northridge tonight and then defeat either Long Beach State or UC Santa Barbara in Satudray's finals.
But let's be honest here. The Waves are in, and Dunphy knows it. Their first-place finish in the regular season in by the toughest conference in the nation ensures that.
So why not knock out your top competition for the championship before the NCAA tournament even if it means forfeiting the MPSF title?
There certainly is one good reason for Dunphy not to instruct his team to lose tonight, but it has nothing to do with ethics. If he doesn't think UCLA is his team's biggest threat - and he might not - there's absolutely no reason for them not to bring home the conference championship on their home court.
But here's one good reason for Pepperdine to do that: Their lone visit to Pauley Pavilion this season resulted in a 3-0 Bruin victory.
ULCA has not played well lately, losing to Long Beach State and Cal State Northridge and needing five games to top lowly UC San Diego. But given another chance on their home court with the NCAA championship at state, UCLA might redeem itself.
That's a chane Pepperdine might not want to take.
(Compiled by Jeff Eisenberg, Bruin Sports senior staff.)
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2. No
Sports is about winning. You play to win the game.
Pepperdine men's volleyball coach Mavy Dunphy has been saying the right things this week, reiterating that his team will play its hardest and try to win this weekend at the MPSF tournament.
Hopefully, he will turn out to be a man of his word. It would be best if the Waves put out their best effort this weekend. And not just for UCLA's sake, but for the sake of the whole sport.
In theory, he could help his team by intentionally losing - Pepperdine has already virtually assured itself of a spot in the NCAA Championships and a loss would knock out its toughtest competition, UCLA, because only one at-large bid to the NCAA Championships is given in men's volleyball.
But sports is about winning.
Intentionally losing would set up a dangerous precedent, especially if Pepperdine went on to win the NCAA Championships.
Teams always copy success - and the best teams in the country intentionally losing every year would really hurt the sport's integrity.
Intentionally losing to eliminate your top competition also hurts the quality of the NCAA tournament. If the best possible teams weren't playing in these nationally televised matches, it would mean a smaller audience.
Think of the childre. Growing up playing sports, children are tuaght ot always play their hardest. What example would it set if a team were to intentionally lose?
And think of the fans. There might be some fans at the MPSF Championships this weekend who have never attended a volleyball match. What taste would it leave in their mouths if they were to see a bunch of players tyring to lose?
If Pepperdien gives its best effort this weekend and just gets beaten, that's fine. But if they rest all of their starters in the MPSF Championship game or, even worse, intentionally try to lose while on the court, it would be travesty to sports.
(Compiled by Gilbert Quinonez, Bruin Sporst senior staff.)
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Apr 28, 2005 17:33:36 GMT -5
This is irrelevant to the question asked! Actually, rookie, it is EXTREMELY relevant to the question asked. It was because of this screwup that the at-large criteria were reviewed and WRITTEN DOWN so that things like this did not happen in the future.
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Apr 28, 2005 17:36:36 GMT -5
Marv would never throw a match.
Farting Al wouldn't think twice about doing so, and has done so in the past. He did it in 2000, he let LMU beat them in Pauley at the end of the regular season, which got LMU into the post-season for the first time since probably Sio Siapaia played, and they promptly knocked out tournament #1 seed and favored-to-win-it-all LBSU in the first round.
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Post by Will Rogers Beach on Apr 28, 2005 21:22:01 GMT -5
I remember that game (4/5/2000) where UCLA lost to LMU.
Two reasons they lost: Reid Priddy was great and Brandon Taliaferro's back injury flared up. Al Scates couldn't have thrown away that game since UCLA was fighting to host the first round of the MPSF. They didn't want to end up playing in Provo for 5th place. They ended up as the 4th seed. The seedings were in this order: 1 Long Beach, 2 Pepperdine, 3 USC, 4 UCLA, 5 BYU, 6 Hawaii, 7 Stanford and 8 LMU. They also wanted to get the 3rd seed so they won't have to play Long Beach in the semis. As it turned out, Reid Priddy and Company eliminated LB in the first round. The second round was played at Pepperdine and UCLA ended up winning the MPSF tournament and Pepperdine got the at-large.
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Post by lalalaluuuke on Apr 28, 2005 21:35:27 GMT -5
A question of ethics: Should Pepperdine intentionally lose, ruining UCLA's NCAA Tournament chances? How about they grow a pair and just win when it matters. Who cares if they lost to them already? I'm sure that you have never won anything just by virtue of the fact that you brought this up. You are either the best and win out, or you are not.
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Post by TheProfessor on Apr 28, 2005 21:39:25 GMT -5
SOBB must think Scates was psychic to know that after supposedly deliberately losing to LMU, that LMU would actually be able to BEAT Long Beach State at their place. Otherwise, why would he possibly actually want to lose that game??
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Post by lalalaluuuke on Apr 28, 2005 22:11:54 GMT -5
What UCLA's writers really meant to say (in italics):
Hopefully, he will turn out to be a man of his word. It would be best if the Waves put out their best effort this weekend and not lose. And not just for UCLA's sake, but for the sake of the whole sport, but mostly for UCLA's sake.
In theory, he could help his team by intentionally losing - Pepperdine has already virtually assured itself of a spot in the NCAA Championships and a loss would knock out its toughtest competition, UCLA, because only one at-large bid to the NCAA Championships is given in men's volleyball;and we, UCLA, would be screwed.
But sports is about UCLA winning.
Intentionally losing would continue a dangerous precedent, of UCLA not winning National Championships especially if Pepperdine went on to win the NCAA Championships.
Teams always copy success - obviously not UCLA in this millenium and the best teams in the country intentionally losing every year would really hurt UCLA.
Intentionally losing to eliminate UCLA also hurts the UCLA BRUINS quality of the NCAA tournament. If the best possible teams UCLA weren't playing in these nationally televised matches, it would mean a smaller audience like the average 114 that come to our home games.
Think of the BRUINS children. Growing up playing sports, children are tuaght ot always play their hardest. What example would it set if a team were to intentionally lose AND LEAVE UCLA OUT OF THE TOURNAMENT?
And think of UCLA the fans. There might be some fans at the MPSF Championships this weekend who have never attended a volleyball match. What taste would it leave in their mouths if they were to see UCLA LEFT OUT OF THE NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP a bunch of players tyring to lose?
If Pepperdien gives its best effort this weekend and just gets beaten, that's fine BUT IT REALLY ISN'T. But if they rest all of their starters in the MPSF Championship game or, even worse, intentionally try to lose while on the court, it would be travesty to UCLA sports.
(Compiled by Gilbert Quinonez, Bruin Sporst senior staff.)
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Post by midwestfan on Apr 28, 2005 22:18:36 GMT -5
Actually, rookie, it is EXTREMELY relevant to the question asked. It was because of this screwup that the at-large criteria were reviewed and WRITTEN DOWN so that things like this did not happen in the future. Actually, grandpa, it isn't! The question was, "Who was overlooked in 1994?", not why did they have to review and write down the at-large criteria.
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Post by Charlie on Apr 28, 2005 22:45:28 GMT -5
Marv would never throw a match. Farting Al wouldn't think twice about doing so, and has done so in the past. He did it in 2000, he let LMU beat them in Pauley at the end of the regular season, which got LMU into the post-season for the first time since probably Sio Siapaia played, and they promptly knocked out tournament #1 seed and favored-to-win-it-all LBSU in the first round. Last time I looked, coaches don't play out on the court. So, there would be only two ways to cause his own team to lose. Don't play the best players, or tell the team to intentionally lose. Which one did Scates do, Son of Boob?
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Post by sistahsledge on Apr 29, 2005 1:58:06 GMT -5
The first time I remember there being a controversy over the at-large bid was back in 1990 and UCLA ended up losing out.
Bryan Ivie was injured during the conference playoffs and USC, without their big stud, lost in the semi's to Long Beach. The Trojans figured their season was over. Long Beach beat UCLA in the championship match to get the automatic bid to the Final Four. As the runner-up, UCLA assumed that they would get the at-large bid. Up until then, the runner-up of the conference tournament had always gotten the at-large bid.
However, the selection committee decided that USC was more deserving, having had a better overall record and head-to-head against UCLA. Of course, Scates and the Bruins were incensed and argued that the selection should be settled on the court and not by "politics".
If Pepperdine wins the MPSF, it will be interesting to hear what Scates and Knipe will say to plead their cases. Are there any rules against lobbying the selection committee?
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deeg
High School
Posts: 8
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Post by deeg on Apr 29, 2005 10:37:41 GMT -5
No reason for Pepp to throw it or even let down. Consider the implications: If LBSU wins and Pepp is at-large, then the final seedings are probably: 1. PSU (high probability that they'll win EIVA) 2. Pepp 3. LBSU 4. MIVA champ
Pepp has to play LBSU again. I don't think any team wants to play back-to-back against someone you just lost to.
But if Pepp wins, then the seedings are probably: 1. Pepp 2. PSU 3. LBSU or (god forbid) UCLA 4. MIVA champ
Pepp plays MIVA, with a much better chance of making it to the finals.
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Post by killmasta on Apr 29, 2005 12:33:57 GMT -5
y would they intentionally throw the match. Long Beach will give them a harder time if they make it to the final 4 and than ucla would. the beach have only lost 2 matches in the past 15. They swept pepp in 3 and beat ucla too. If i were marv dunphy, id be more worried about a hot long beach state team than ucla
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Apr 29, 2005 16:16:01 GMT -5
Last time I looked, coaches don't play out on the court. So, there would be only two ways to cause his own team to lose. Don't play the best players, or tell the team to intentionally lose. Which one did Scates do, Son of Boob? Come on, Charles. You should know by now, being the Bruin fan and Al Scates fan that you are, that Farting Al has gone on record several times in the Daily Bruin saying that he has in the past withheld what he thought was relevant information during a match that may have helped his team win, for the express purpose of throwing a match.
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Post by sonofbarcelonabob on Apr 29, 2005 16:41:01 GMT -5
y would they intentionally throw the match. Long Beach will give them a harder time if they make it to the final 4 and than ucla would. the beach have only lost 2 matches in the past 15. They swept pepp in 3 and beat ucla too. If i were marv dunphy, id be more worried about a hot long beach state team than ucla UCLA has never lost an NCAA championship match played in Pauley Pavilion. Never. Ever. That's why it would be infinitely more preferable to face LBSU than UCLA in the NCAA championship match.
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