|
|
Post by chipNdink on Dec 7, 2008 13:17:00 GMT -5
I can understand government supporting and bailing out 1 auto manufacturer for national reasons, but all 3?? What a waste.
|
|
|
|
Post by BearClause on Dec 7, 2008 15:25:08 GMT -5
I suppose they don't want to be in the business of playing favorites.
My family hasn't bought an American car in over 12 years. My dad made the mistake of buying a Buick. Man was that a piece of turd.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikegarrison on Dec 7, 2008 15:32:01 GMT -5
I bought my first car in 1988. I've never bought anything (new or used) but a Honda. The latest of those was made in the USA.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2008 16:58:18 GMT -5
I've been buying Saturns for the last 15 years. Pieces of junk, most of them, but good service -- and the plastic body is a plus in Minnesota.
I also think it's important to remember that these "bailouts" are loans. I know. Risky loans and on pretty good terms, but still loans.
All these layoffs are just a death spiral...
|
|
|
|
Post by Phaedrus on Dec 7, 2008 16:59:07 GMT -5
You may get your wish, kind of a slim chance though.
Ford only wants a 9 billion dollar line of credit, in case they need it. And GM can still gobble up Chrysler. Voila, one bailout.
|
|
|
|
Post by BearClause on Dec 7, 2008 17:08:15 GMT -5
I've been buying Saturns for the last 15 years. Pieces of junk, most of them, but good service -- and the plastic body is a plus in Minnesota. I also think it's important to remember that these "bailouts" are loans. I know. Risky loans and on pretty good terms, but still loans. All these layoffs are just a death spiral... Saturn? I remember considering one as my first car out of grad school. I tried a first generation SC2. It had decent power for its weight, but then that meant the sound insulation was so poor that it was extremely loud on the freeway. Then I tried test driving the second generation SL2. They took care of the engine noise with sound insulation and a heavier chassis, but that extra 200 lbs pretty much killed what little performance it had. It also hurt that they never had anything but an entry-level car in the same class as the Civic and Corolla - until way late in the brand. I remember reading about their shift to bodies based on the European Opel designs. Some Saturn enthusiasts almost had a fit when they thought of discontinuing the plastic composite bodies. I thought they were overrated to some degree. The ones I saw all had panels that didn't really fit together all that well, with uneven gaps around the door panels. The problem with Saturn was that their marketing was way ahead of their redesign. It took way too long for new engines to find their way. They kind of relied on gimmicks or things that really didn't make that much difference. I kept on hearing from dealers about their pillar designs, timing chains (a non-issue really), and plastic door panels. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2008 17:24:49 GMT -5
I was listening to something on NPR yesterday and I don't recall who was talking, but he said Saturn's problem was that GM didn't throw any new designs at them while the brand was hot. He said they have some good new cars now, like the Aura, but no longer have the buzz.
I've never been one for spending much for a car and so I expect the noise and the feeling you're driving a boat. They've been fairly reliable. We've had an SL, a station wagon and a Vue (which drives like a tank). I did give the SL away and bought my mother's Protege. Biggest mistake we made was trading in the wagon when we bought the Vue. Should have just squeezed the kids into the backseat until we could get rid of one or two of the carseats.
|
|
|
|
Post by IdahoBoy on Dec 8, 2008 16:12:10 GMT -5
I'm still driving my first car.
1981 full-size, short box Chevy pickup.
24 mpg, city.
|
|
|
|
Post by holidayhusker on Dec 9, 2008 7:59:25 GMT -5
What not one single person has mentioned is the potential loss of thousands of American jobs. Very thoughtful of you guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by OverAndUnder on Dec 9, 2008 11:30:13 GMT -5
Actually, people have spent the last eight years talking about the loss of hundreds of thousands of American jobs.
|
|
|
|
Post by goGopherBill on Dec 9, 2008 11:53:22 GMT -5
Oh all those rust belt jobs....
Poor worker bees..
All in Democratic strongholds.
all those wasted votes.
No one bailed out American electronic manufacturing.
Go buy an American TV or computer.
No one bailed out American Steel plants....
Thousands of Hard working union paying jobs lost vs..cheap overseas steel.
No one Bailed out American Textiles...clothing and shoes makers...
yes Chinese funk looks good !
No one bailed out American Construction UNIONS in Housing...mexican laborers are so much cheaper.
Now these huge over stuffed corrupt companies that couldn't make it on their own need taxpayers dollars to continue being corrupt and bad.?
BS.
Next stop whining....these clowns are making 70,000 A YEAR WITHOUT ANY COLLEGE EDUCATION BOLTING ON PARTS A 10TH GRADER COULD DO.
THEY VOTED Democrat in every election thinking Republicans were the enemy.
Its been Democrats and their corporate TAX structure that has driven all business to look elsewhere for cheaper places to do business.
No Business wants to pay workers huge money while they go under. FACT OF LIFE SHEEP.
GET OVER IT.
If American Unions are so efficient ....
LET THEM come to congress and BUY a AUTO company and run it.
Lets see them raise huge capitol and money and still pay all those benefits and taxes.
IT CANT BE DONE.
Or the UNIONS solution....place a $30,000 tariff-on all foreign cars and make Americans buy American.
Just as Harley got placed on Honda motorcycles..
Great change.
VOTE DEMOCRAT.
|
|
|
|
Post by Not Me on Dec 15, 2008 9:42:57 GMT -5
What about the foreign car companies that now build in America.
Why don't they have the same problems?
Why do the unions in the "Big 3" have such a huge hold on them, and not the foreign companies in america? It costs the Big 3 over $70 per hour per worker including salary and all benefits. While toyota pays about $48 per hour per worker.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 9:50:47 GMT -5
Re the $70/hour myth. mediamatters.org/items/200812060002Why is it always the worker or the poor (see mortgage crisis) who are blamed for these financial fiascos and not the bastards stealing money? I am more and more inclined to go the OandU route: Let the whole thing come crashing down. |
|
|
|
Post by BearClause on Dec 15, 2008 19:15:42 GMT -5
Re the $70/hour myth. mediamatters.org/items/200812060002Why is it always the worker or the poor (see mortgage crisis) who are blamed for these financial fiascos and not the bastards stealing money? I am more and more inclined to go the OandU route: Let the whole thing come crashing down. Apparently the New United Motor Manufacturing plant is drawing threats of closure from Toyota, which makes Tacoma pickups, Corollas, and Pontiac Vibes at that particular joint-venture with GM. Apparently the problem with them isn't that their UAW workers are making $70/hour. It's that they're making $32/hour. www.thetruthaboutcars.com/nummi-rip-toyota-considers-dumping-uaw-plant/From everything I've gathered about the quality, it's not UAW or American workers that's the problem, but American executives who force their design teams to dumb down their designs in short-sighted cost/benefit analyses. |
|
|
|
Post by Not Me on Dec 17, 2008 15:27:04 GMT -5
And why do car makers need the overhead of multiple divisions making and selling the same car?
Not pick on Ford, but the Ford brand and Mercury sell the same vehicles.
I have a Mazada Tribute. Which is the same as the Ford Escape and the Mercury Mariner. How much money is wasted in having competing products from the same company?
|
|
