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Post by soothsayer on May 26, 2009 14:16:56 GMT -5
paloalto, what is accomplished by cheapshots such as a "good reading from a teleprompter"?
I do not understand why our President is bashed for being able to give a good speech. What on earth is wrong with that?
And then Bob hammers him for giving thoughtful responses -- rather than just regurgitating talking points. You know, *thinking* about his responses while he's giving them. Formulating thoughts. Who knew this was a weakness?
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Post by bunnywailer on May 26, 2009 14:40:49 GMT -5
I knew one of the limbaugh zombies would post this and then try to somehow wriggle out of when the first first nuke was tested. The one good thing about limbaugh zombies is that they are programmed to all think the same way and are completely predictable. Who's wriggling? The North Korean nuclear weapons program has been active through at least the last 4 US Presidents. That they achieved operational test capability under GWB's presidency is just timing. GWB wanted to pimp-slap them into submission, but because the tree-hugging kumbaya idiots who controlled Congress in 2006-7 wanted a different approach, the US went with negotiation and hammered out an agreement for North Korea to cease all research and development in the nuclear arms program in exchange for the lifting of some sanctions against them, some shipments of oil, and the promise of additional technology to assist them in channelling their research into development of nuclear power for their civilian sector. Now that GWB is gone, that deal has deteriorated and North Korea (as is it's history of international relations) has gone against their earlier agreement and started up their weapons development program again. They do it because they know that with the current US President being a big hug-it-all-out kinda guy (as he has shown with his desire to just give Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran just one big sloppy wet kiss after another), they can push the envelope to destabilize the region. The only thing that needs to wriggle out is your brain from your ass.
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Post by soothsayer on May 26, 2009 14:47:11 GMT -5
How was W going to pimp slap them into submission? He wanted to ignore them. Didn't work. Actually made things worse.
The only other option now is military. You willing to go that route? Better to stop acting like quivering cowards and let the society implode. It's just a matter of time.
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Post by bunnywailer on May 26, 2009 14:48:27 GMT -5
So, since the whole lot of you are completely clueless on the issue of nuclear proliferation, let me point out some facts to you:
- Pakistan and India continue nuclear weapons development programs far more aggressive than North Korea and have both successfully tested nuclear weapons with a far greater yield than the North Korean tests. And, oh by the way, both countries hate each other and are engaged in low-level conflicts by nomadic tribes along their common border. Each one probably wouldn't hesitate to blast the other into one big mound of molten glass. Yet...no one says a peep about the destabilizing influence of nuclear weapons in this region. Why is that?
- All those Cold War nukes are still there. The former Soviet Union republics couldn't wait to give the nukes back to Russia once the USSR broke up. But that doesn't mean they went away, they are still pointed squarely at the US. Just because the press doesn't cover this anymore does that mean all of you should think you are that much safer? Destabilization between nuclear superpowers can happen in an instant. Why aren't you whining about that? You think if a terrorist or anyone else with a hatred for the US cares WHERE they get their first nuke from?
Idiots. Get a frikkin' clue about nuclear proliferation issues.
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Post by bunnywailer on May 26, 2009 14:56:09 GMT -5
How was W going to pimp slap them into submission? He wanted to ignore them. Didn't work. Actually made things worse. The only other option now is military. You willing to go that route? Better to stop acting like quivering cowards and let the society implode. It's just a matter of time. Beginning in 2002, the Bush Administration policy was to shun bilateral negotiations with North Korea directly, and instead seek to engage in multi-national negotiations involving all major stakeholders in that theatre (China, South Korea, Japan, etc.) and to hold a hard line against "quid pro quo" agreements. North Korea had to first demonstrate by action their willingness to dismantle their nuclear weapons development program before aid would be offered. There is most assuredly more than one other option available to Obama. But seeing as you are mostly ignorant on the issue of nuclear proliferation, I'll let you continue to be ignorant.
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Post by soothsayer on May 26, 2009 15:02:48 GMT -5
Hmmm. That's a bit over the top, no?
So, your solution is to go back to a failed Bush policy? Nice.
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Post by bunnywailer on May 26, 2009 15:04:47 GMT -5
Hmmm. That's a bit over the top, no? So, your solution is to go back to a failed Bush policy? Nice. Actually, I was thinking the failed Clinton and Carter policies were so much better.
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Post by soothsayer on May 26, 2009 15:09:04 GMT -5
The point being that all we have are *failed* policies, which probably means Korea is going to do what it wants to do. Best not to over-react. Let 'em hang themselves with their own rope.
Do you really think India and Pakistan's nukes are not a major concern with the average Joe? This is a serious question. I was under the impression that most people realized that there's a real powder keg there. Much more so than in Iran and in Korea.
I certainly think Obama knows this.
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Post by goGopherBill on May 26, 2009 15:15:37 GMT -5
Hi .. Debate here? No one replies with any logic. Its not who's to blame ...when to blame ...but why the same stuff hasn't been fixed since the end of the KOREAN CONFLICT.. quit nagging on style... THIS PRESIDENT and HIS SECRETARY OF STATE ..that be the GODDESS Hillary Clinton PROMISED TO MAKE US AND THE WORLD SAFER by leading us in a new direction. NO DEBATE. Since they were elected ...we must give THEM A CHANCE to do THEIR THING. I feel strongly in opposition to TEA WITH TERRORIST ( not the new Springsteen album..) diplomacy. However WE CANNOT FORCE OTHER COUNTRIES TO ACT LIKE WE WANT THEM TO. WE are not the worlds policemen. Just as I could not force any of you to change a be a conservative ...we conservatives must offer a different position ..BUT STILL SUPPORT THIS PRESIDENT ..least we make our selves seem nothing but an opposition force . UNITY may be what is called for. Then NUKE EM ALL
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Post by bunnywailer on May 26, 2009 16:02:55 GMT -5
Do you really think India and Pakistan's nukes are not a major concern with the average Joe? This is a serious question. I was under the impression that most people realized that there's a real powder keg there. Much more so than in Iran and in Korea. I certainly think Obama knows this. The average Joe can't even find India or Pakistan on a map, much less pontificate on the issue of nuclear proliferation in that region. Don't believe me? Go down to your local Wal-Mart and ask 10 people those questions. As far as Obama goes, he is probably learning that he should pay attention in those morning intelligence briefings, and enrolling himself in Foreign Policy 101, as well as figuring out that hugging-it-out-with-leaders-of-state-sponsored-terrorism is not an effective strategy.
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Post by blob on May 26, 2009 17:38:38 GMT -5
Do you really think India and Pakistan's nukes are not a major concern with the average Joe? This is a serious question. I was under the impression that most people realized that there's a real powder keg there. Much more so than in Iran and in Korea. I certainly think Obama knows this. The average Joe can't even find India or Pakistan on a map, much less pontificate on the issue of nuclear proliferation in that region. Don't believe me? Go down to your local Wal-Mart and ask 10 people those questions. As far as Obama goes, he is probably learning that he should pay attention in those morning intelligence briefings, and enrolling himself in Foreign Policy 101, as well as figuring out that hugging-it-out-with-leaders-of-state-sponsored-terrorism is not an effective strategy. Bob- Don't sell yourself short. Those gems you picked up in your Geography class at Santa Monica College could really help Obama develop his strategy in dealing with "nukular" weapons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 21:32:25 GMT -5
Japan doesn't need to start a nuclear weapons program, nor does South Korea. All those nations would have to do is agree to work on a missile defense program with the US. That would be enough to get Chinese attention.
And China should worry--because Koreans tend towards nationalism. All it would take to become anti-Chinese is a little nudge. No one likes unstable regimes with nuclear programs on their borders.
As for Pakistan/India--it's easy to find information and readily available. Just don't watch American TV or read 'news' magazines.
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Post by goGopherBill on May 27, 2009 8:51:17 GMT -5
ZEN. Being a conservative I can say this easily,
WHO ARE WE TO TELL JAPAN and SOUTH KOREA what they NEED? And having a very good heart doctor from INDIA I can tell you that race AND religion PLAY A HUGE ROLE IN THEIR POLITICAL DIFFERENCES.
see Hindu vs. Muslim.
India hates Muslims...AND ALTHOUGH you MIGHT THINK ALL Hindu RELIGION PROHIBITS VIOLENCE...IT AIN'T SO.
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Post by hammer on May 27, 2009 13:42:19 GMT -5
The average Joe can't even find India or Pakistan on a map, much less pontificate on the issue of nuclear proliferation in that region. As far as Obama goes, he is probably learning that he should pay attention in those morning intelligence briefings, and enrolling himself in Foreign Policy 101, as well as figuring out that hugging-it-out-with-leaders-of-state-sponsored-terrorism is not an effective strategy. Reminds me of an episode of the Newlywed Game I watched years ago. It was the 25 point bonus question asking each of the four female newlyweds to name a country in South America that their husbands might guess. Well, you guessed it, none of the four could even name a country in South America. I think even Dems have fairly low expectations on Foreign Policy for the Obama administration. Many just wish these troublesome issues would just "go away." So far what we have are some nice speeches about wanting to work with other governments/allies/UN to solve problems, but no realistic meat on how to meet objectives. Probably their best performance so far is in Iraq, but one can argue that is a carry over from GWB.
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Post by nittanylionvb on May 27, 2009 14:04:43 GMT -5
Obama just went to a Democrat fundraiser in Las Vegas, Nevada and now he is on his way to LA for another Democrat fundraiser. It is good there is nothing important going on in the world right now.
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