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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Aug 13, 2011 22:06:57 GMT -5
The "Best Athlete Of All Time" thread has prompted me to start this one as I would like to read the thoughts of others on the following. To illustrate part of the question at hand I will reference the 2009 Male Athlete Of The Year, race car driver Jimmie Johnson, who finished ahead of Roger Federer and Usain Bolt. Now I don't minimize the skill Jimmie and other drivers possess. I also won't argue that some drivers are probably, in fact athletic. I also am not debating the criteria by which this awards are decided. However it is my contention that car racing is NOT an athletic event and one certainly does not have to be athletic to be proficient at it. Not all sports are synonymous with athletics. As someone on the other thread listed Tiger Woods as the Best Athlete Of All Time I don't believe one has to be overly athletic to be a world class golfer either. One last example. I used to work at a health club which had aerobic classes. The head instructor was Jodie and she was in SPECTACULAR cardiovascular shape and was terrific at choreographing her classes. However, the first time I saw her try and play racquetball it was like watching a new born foal try and stand up for the first time. When her movement was predicated by something outside herself it was like she had almost no control over her body, It was the same in volleyball and softball as well. She was a good example of someone who was in terrific shape, but had not once ounce of athletic ability. So my question is this. What are others thoughts on what an "athlete" is? What are some examples of something that might be better classified as a recreational event rather than a sport? Horseshoes maybe? I think I've done enough to get the ball rolling. I look forward to a very spirited discussion.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2011 23:57:41 GMT -5
Not to totally switch your topic, but what do you consider the most athletic sport?
I'd put basketball and soccer right up there -- and volleyball has nothing to be ashamed of. Some sports have positions that require vastly better athletes than other positions in the same sport. That causes problems for you.
As for your question above, I'd add bowling, sharpshooting, billiards ...
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 14, 2011 0:15:11 GMT -5
To illustrate part of the question at hand I will reference the 2009 Male Athlete Of The Year, race car driver Jimmie Johnson, who finished ahead of Roger Federer and Usain Bolt. Now I don't minimize the skill Jimmie and other drivers possess. I also won't argue that some drivers are probably, in fact athletic. I also am not debating the criteria by which this awards are decided. However it is my contention that car racing is NOT an athletic event and one certainly does not have to be athletic to be proficient at it. Have you ever tried it? Are baseball players athletes? John Kruk once said, "I ain't an athlete, lady, I'm a baseball player." But was he right? If you imagine that driving a race car is similar to driving down to the grocery store, you are incredibly wrong. It's all about finely tuned and perfectly timed reaction -- rather like hitting a volleyball. The best race car drivers usually do look like they are "in shape," just as most baseball players do. It's a huge competitive advantage for them. Most of them work very hard at physical conditioning. Some don't. But is Prince Fielder an athlete? The guy hits 50 home runs a year. That's his job, and he does it well. |
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Aug 14, 2011 0:25:17 GMT -5
Not to totally switch your topic, but what do you consider the most athletic sport? I'd put basketball and soccer right up there -- and volleyball has nothing to be ashamed of. Some sports have positions that require vastly better athletes than other positions in the same sport. That causes problems for you. As for your question above, I'd add bowling, sharpshooting, billiards ... I would say soccer. I remember reading a study in college that suggested soccer to be one of the best developmental sports to prepare athletes for other sports. It has elements of speed, endurance, agility, teamwork, spacial awareness, hand (foot) eye coordination and strategy among others. I actually wish it would have been a more prominent sport as I was growing up. I agree that bowling, sharpshooting and billiards require little, if any athletic ability. I would also comment that there are some sports, where being fit will definitely aid in ones proficiency. But being fit is good for a UPS driver too. That doesn't mean he or she is an athlete. |
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Post by TheSantaBarbarian on Aug 14, 2011 0:25:52 GMT -5
It seems like one of the differences between some of these is how aerobic the "sport" is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2011 0:38:50 GMT -5
Well, how to you judge athleticism? I'd say the ability to run and jump are top criteria, as well as agility while running and jumping -- in addition to hand-to-eye (or foot-to-eye) coordination.
Strength. And the ability to think while doing all of it?
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 14, 2011 0:41:17 GMT -5
Well, how to you judge athleticism? I'd say the ability to run and jump are top criteria, as well as agility while running and jumping -- in addition to hand-to-eye (or foot-to-eye) coordination. Strength. And the ability to think while doing all of it? There was just a thread in the women's board about how silly it was for coaches to judge volleyball players by how well they run. Does that mean volleyball players aren't athletes? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2011 0:45:03 GMT -5
Volleyball players don't run? That's news to me.
For the record, I'm not saying one has to do all those things to be an athlete. I'm saying those are the things by which one judges athleticism.
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Post by geddyleemarvin on Aug 14, 2011 1:00:21 GMT -5
I think Ruffda's general point stands, but I would change "running" to "foot speed." The term "running" is too broad - running as in Frank Shorter or running as in Usain Bolt? But foot speed and/or first step explosiveness have always been considered hallmarks of truly great athletes, whether one is talking about Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Jerry Rice, Pete Sampras, Bo Jackson, Ronaldo, or Willie Mays. Or Secretariat, for that matter. Foot speed alone doesn't completely define a great athlete, but it's always a big part of the conversation.
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 14, 2011 1:03:41 GMT -5
I think Ruffda's general point stands, but I would change "running" to "foot speed." The term "running" is too broad - running as in Frank Shorter or running as in Usain Bolt? But foot speed and/or first step explosiveness have always been considered hallmarks of truly great athletes, whether one is talking about Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Jerry Rice, Pete Sampras, Bo Jackson, Ronaldo, or Willie Mays. Or Secretariat, for that matter. Foot speed alone doesn't completely define a great athlete, but it's always a big part of the conversation. Michael Phelps is therefore not an athlete? |
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Aug 14, 2011 1:03:42 GMT -5
To illustrate part of the question at hand I will reference the 2009 Male Athlete Of The Year, race car driver Jimmie Johnson, who finished ahead of Roger Federer and Usain Bolt. Now I don't minimize the skill Jimmie and other drivers possess. I also won't argue that some drivers are probably, in fact athletic. I also am not debating the criteria by which this awards are decided. However it is my contention that car racing is NOT an athletic event and one certainly does not have to be athletic to be proficient at it. Have you ever tried it? Are baseball players athletes? John Kruk once said, "I ain't an athlete, lady, I'm a baseball player." But was he right? If you imagine that driving a race car is similar to driving down to the grocery store, you are incredibly wrong. It's all about finely tuned and perfectly timed reaction -- rather like hitting a volleyball. The best race car drivers usually do look like they are "in shape," just as most baseball players do. It's a huge competitive advantage for them. Most of them work very hard at physical conditioning. Some don't. But is Prince Fielder an athlete? The guy hits 50 home runs a year. That's his job, and he does it well. My initial reaction to you post was to just ignore your rather argumentative tone. I had hoped people would have simply added their own thoughts without being critical of those of others. I don't know what I was thinking. In any event, I will answer your questions. No Mike. I have never driven a race car. Bela Karolyi never did a double back flip with a half twist off a high bar but he sure knew what it took to do it. No Mike, John Kruk is wrong. Maybe you're not aware, but he does, on occasion speak the language of sarcasm quite well. Yes Mike. I actually believe driving a race care to be exactly like running down to the corner market for a carton of milk.  No Mike. Driving a race care is NOTHING like hitting a volleyball. Driving a car calls for mostly fine motor skills while hitting a volleyball uses mostly gross motor skills. I am not minimizing the skill needed to be a top level race car driver. I am just saying being a good athlete isn't a prerequisite. You're correct however when you say some drivers work very hard at being fit. You're equally correct at saying some don't, which in essence proves that it is not a necessity for success. And being fit and being athletic do not go hand in hand. My brother is quite a bit bigger than Prince Fielder and not presently very fit. He is however very athletic. Point of clarification. IMO one critical element of an athletic endeavor is cardiovascular stress. Thoughts? |
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Aug 14, 2011 1:04:11 GMT -5
It seems like one of the differences between some of these is how aerobic the "sport" is. Agreed! |
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Aug 14, 2011 1:06:56 GMT -5
I think Ruffda's general point stands, but I would change "running" to "foot speed." The term "running" is too broad - running as in Frank Shorter or running as in Usain Bolt? But foot speed and/or first step explosiveness have always been considered hallmarks of truly great athletes, whether one is talking about Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Jerry Rice, Pete Sampras, Bo Jackson, Ronaldo, or Willie Mays. Or Secretariat, for that matter. Foot speed alone doesn't completely define a great athlete, but it's always a big part of the conversation. Michael Phelps is therefore not an athlete? Seriously!! Do you have something positive to add or are you just going to sit behind the safety of your keyboard and take pot-shots at others? |
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 14, 2011 1:08:40 GMT -5
No Mike. I have never driven a race car. Bela Karolyi never did a double back flip with a half twist off a high bar but he sure knew what it took to do it. So you coach race car driving? |
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 14, 2011 1:09:28 GMT -5
Michael Phelps is therefore not an athlete? Seriously!! Do you have something positive to add or are you just going to sit behind the safety of your keyboard and take pot-shots at others? This is incredible BS from someone who started the thread by taking a pot-shot at Jimmy Johnson. |
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