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Post by bigfan on Nov 7, 2011 20:52:50 GMT -5
Joe Pa in a heap of mess.
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Post by volleylearner on Nov 7, 2011 21:02:28 GMT -5
spanier's initial response was a joke Agree with that. The Daily Collegian article said that Curley requested the administrative leave and Schultz asked to resign. I don't believe these were the result of actions by the administration or Board. Even if he is found not guilty, I don't think Curley should return. His judgment seems inadequate for that position. His defense that he knew the acts were serious enough to tell Sandusky not to bring children into facilities but not serious enough to tell the authorities just doesn't pass a smell test to me. From the AG press conference, it could be they are hoping to convince one of Curley or Schultz to testify against Spanier. They said Paterno is not a target of investigation but did not made the same statement about Spanier. I think the Board could suspend Spanier with a simple vote, but they are better off convincing him to resign. I know people would be mad about a payout but these cases don't move quickly and it will cost the university more to have this cloud over them. The courts will deal with the criminal acts and civil liabilities. The Board can do an investigation and decide whether they need to offer Spanier a package at all or just fire him, but they should do it sooner rather than later. I think they have a good case for incompetence even if Spanier claims Curley didn't give him enough details to act otherwise. He should have asked for the details.
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Post by azvb on Nov 7, 2011 21:33:44 GMT -5
As the day goes on, the angrier I get at the grad asst. and janitor that saw a child being sexually assaulted and turned around and walked away allowing the assault to continue. Can they be charged with something or has too much time gone by?
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Post by lionsfan on Nov 7, 2011 21:35:34 GMT -5
I bleed blue, and this story has been a punch to the gut. What a sad, sad state of affairs. Curley, Schultz, Spanier, McQueary and, yes, Paterno need to go. Read the grand jury report, and use common sense with the facts we know. It’s absolutely disgusting that this monster was able to get away with this behavior so long, and reprehensible that people who knew about it didn’t step up and do the right thing. And to think this handful of people (and however many others, still a miniscule number compared to the legion of Penn Staters appalled by this) have forever put a stain on the school and its football program. And for what? Avoiding having to talk about it? Loyalty to Sandusky? Had this been dealt with properly when it first rose to the surface, there would have been no shame on the school…tackle it head on, get rid of him and move on. Now we’re looking at almost 20 years (at least!) of looking the other way. And imagine how many other victims we don’t even know about, how many times Sandusky didn’t get caught…this will get a lot worse before it gets better. More will come forward, some never will. By his own testimony, McQueary admitted he saw Sandusky sodomizing a young boy—to think that the severity of this wasn’t somehow conveyed to Paterno and then Curley, Spanier, etc. is absurd. Especially so considering there was an investigation in 1998—perhaps not enough evidence to bring Sandusky to trial, but certainly enough to raise suspicion. So there was already warning about this man out there. Paterno in essence let him go from the team in 1999, one year after that investigation. Coincidence? I doubt it. So why was Sandusky allowed back on campus then? That should have been the end of his association with anything related to Penn State. Instead, he’s banned in 2011 after being arrested. That’s laughable. For Paterno to claim “shock” and that “we were all fooled” is BS. You had a hint in 1998 if not sooner, and then McQueary tells you what he saw. So then we move to Curley, Schultz and Spanier, who head the cover-up and things remain quiet until now. Paterno and McQueary certainly did the right thing at first by reporting it…but when a week, a month, whatever passes and nothing has changed, don’t they both say to themselves, “Hey, remember when Sandusky raped that boy? Why is he still walking around campus?” They should have followed up to higher authorities after nothing happened. The inactivity by both of those men at that point becomes just as much of a problem. I guess their consciences weren’t as heavy considering they told somebody. They both took the easy, cowardly way out. Legally, they’re probably fine. Morally? What if that were your kid? (Curley, Schultz and Spanier don’t even deserve my pointed anger…I’m less surprised by their actions, but no less disgusted.) Paterno of all people—with all that he supposedly stands for—should have done something, spoke up more. I don’t care how old you are or what Norman Rockwell era you grew up in; you know right from wrong (let’s hope his conference tomorrow takes more responsibility than his ridiculous “statement”; don’t play the “hazy memory” card and say you can’t remember details, but you sure as heck know you weren’t told those shocking dirty stories!). Why he didn’t see fit to protect the program he built, I have no idea…unless there’s something we don’t know about. Sadly, I bet it was just the easy, lazy way of dealing with it. McQueary was a grown 28-year-old man at the time. Don’t hide behind calling your dad and then “telling coach”…I hold particular disdain for him, considering he’s the one who actually saw it. And all of the janitors who turned the other way…really?! Disgusting. To think of all the young kids who could have been saved this violation is staggering. I don’t think either Paterno or McQueary let themselves truly think about the severity of Sandusky’s nature and the severity of their inaction. They somehow convinced themselves that they “did what they could” and ignored it. Happy now? Paterno’s legacy is forever tainted. Those two national championship teams had a pedophile running the defense. The Penn State program will be the subject of never-ending eye rolling, jokes, signs by opposing fans…and again I ask, for what? There will be books written about this scandal, leading stories on the nightly national news, a feature-length documentary on ESPN and a made-for-TV or even studio feature film about this down the road. Pacino with an Oscar nomination for playing the disgraced coach in a powerful film that chronicles his rise and fall. (I’m not kidding…I could actually see this happening.) So here are my questions: - How many others will come forward? What don’t we know?
- Was Paterno approached at other times about this behavior?
- Does Sandusky have something on Paterno?
- Was McQueary promised promotions for his silence?
- Does the disappearance of former Centre County prosecutor Ray Gricar in 2005 have anything to do with this?
I hope people out there don’t associate the actions of these 5 (or 10, or however many were involved) people with the entire school or its athletic program. The Penn State faithful are disgusted. The football players and other sports programs deserve better. I will be rooting for the Lions against Nebraska, which is a tall order anyway (even before this news broke, I still feared we would lose our last three games). Paterno on the sidelines (excuse me, in the press box) would just be a distraction at this point. Ditto McQueary. Let’s clean house and start healing. I hope that the real victims here—all of these young men—can begin to heal and find peace. I hope Sandusky rots. I’ll leave with this: For years, I have gone to the gym five days a week. About 99% of the time, I wear a Penn State t-shirt or sleeveless shirt when I work out. I have a closet full of them. The regulars at the gym talk to me about Penn State all the time, including some fellow Big Tenners. One employee has even nicknamed me “Penn State”. These last two trips to the gym have been the first time in my life where I have intentionally not worn one of those shirts. I’m ashamed of this scandal. I’m ashamed of the jokes this prompt. I don’t want to invite conversation from strangers. I’m sure the shirts will be worn again by me, but I’m not sure how quickly (I’m actually thinking about heading to the local sporting goods store to stock up on generic workout gear that I can use in the interim…all I seem to have is PSU shirts). I wish this were about tattoos or other miniscule infractions. I wish it was just about a star player caught up in a potential hit-and-run lawsuit. Those all pale in comparison. I’m sick just thinking about this…I can’t even image what the victims are going through. Thank heaven for Rose and the women’s volleyball team, who I have always cheered on more than any other PSU team. I will try to focus positive energy on their season, and cheer for them every step of the way—along with all of the Nittany Lion athletes in all sports. This sick feeling will stick with us for a long time. I ask you again Paterno, McQueary, Spanier, Curley and Schultz: Happy now? Still think you did the right thing?
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Post by azvb on Nov 7, 2011 21:52:17 GMT -5
Well said, lionsfan.
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Post by tomclen on Nov 7, 2011 21:54:47 GMT -5
LIONSFAN: Very well said. You shouldn't be ashamed of the school. It's not the university, it's the failures of the people at the top to do the right thing.
No matter how much of a benefit of doubt one wants to give to Joe Paterno, the facts just can't add up.
Even if Paterno believed he was only being told that Sandusky was in the locker room shower with a 10-year old boy, so what? When, under any circumstances, is it acceptable for a 58-year old man to be in a university locker room shower with a 10-year old?
Any rational, moral leader would be outraged and demand a full investigation and immediate termination(s).
And this notion that Paterno informed his superior and that's sufficient contradicts everything we know about Paterno's clout and power at PSU. Fercripes sake, he summoned the AD to the Paterno home! With that kind of power and clout, you take charge and fix the problem.
The greatest tragedy is the harm inflicted on the young boys who were sexually abused. But it's also an enormous tragedy that no one in power at PSU, including the university president, the AD, or Paterno has done the obvious, right thing.
And it's too late now. This is only going to get worse.
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Post by bigfan on Nov 7, 2011 22:03:32 GMT -5
I bleed blue, and this story has been a punch to the gut. What a sad, sad state of affairs. Wonderful post. I am a die hard USC fan and what USC is paying for (REGGIE BUSH) pales in comparison to this. When Southern Cal was sanctioned (they had it coming) I was ashamed. What is happening at your beloved school.............it has not yet hit rock bottom. The only horror I can compare this too is what happened in the Catholic Church ( the faith I was raised in) sadness, revulsion, shock were and are still my emotions.
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Nov 7, 2011 22:59:04 GMT -5
LIONSFAN; While I regret the impetus of your post, I truly appreciate the honesty and passion behind your words. EASILY the most meaningful post I've ever read on a message board.
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Post by pavbfan on Nov 7, 2011 23:19:03 GMT -5
Agree. LIONSFAN; While I regret the impetus of your post, I truly appreciate the honesty and passion behind your words. EASILY the most meaningful post I've ever read on a message board.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 8, 2011 1:04:09 GMT -5
This is really rather disturbing if everything is true. The closest thing I remember in sports was a college placekicker who had a fetish for boys. He started by making annoying phone calls while pretending to be a college recruiter. His M.O. was that he'd ask for photos of nude or mostly unclothed young men because he needed to "evaluate them". When he was caught, he eventually got probation, but it escalated after that. He pretended to be a Nike rep and asked that a boy strip so that he could "measure" him for the prizes that he claimed to be giving out. He also impersonated a police officer and ordered several boys to take their clothes off. articles.sfgate.com/1999-07-01/news/17692870_1_eric-abrams-santa-clara-county-police-officerIt seemed rather a waste of a good education, but I'm thinking there were far more serious psychological issues that he just couldn't handle. His case wasn't really that of an athletic department not reporting the behavior, but of the law being impotent to really stop him with only minor penalties before it escalated to more serious child molestation.
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Post by tomclen on Nov 8, 2011 9:55:02 GMT -5
Harrisburg Patriot-News has a front page editorial today, calling for PSU president and Paterno to go.... www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/our_view.htmlI agree with most of this editorial, but they do say Paterno should step down AFTER the season ends. IMO it would be a horrible development for Penn State University to have national television cameras focused on Paterno coaching from the coaches box area this weekend. If he wanted to take the first small step in healing the horrible wounds he helped enable, he could announce today his immediate retirement.
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Post by azvb on Nov 8, 2011 10:45:33 GMT -5
Since if appears Joe will not be punished legally, I hope he will be punished by not receiving a heroes send off. He should resign/be fired immediately.
Again I ask, how could a person witness the rape of a child and not intervene?
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Post by Not Me on Nov 8, 2011 11:32:22 GMT -5
if you want to be entertained, listen to the Paterno news conference today.
I'm sure he will attempt to brush this off,and refuse to answer questions. he will probably even threaten to walk out, as he has done in the past when he doesn't like the questions.
Only problem for him is that this isn't the usual local media. He will have the big boys there, and this is a national story. They won't stop asking because they don't want to offend "Joe Pa"
I don't see how he looks good in any way after this.
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Post by tomclen on Nov 8, 2011 11:40:45 GMT -5
There are a couple of new stories today by reporters in PA who have talked with at least two mothers of boys who were allegedly victimized by Sandusky. And more are likely to come forward and more details will be unearthed.
I don't understand why the powers that be at PSU can't see that. It's the coverup, not the crime that always does in those in power.
The right thing for the board of regents to do would be to fire the school president and Paterno. No retirement, no deals. Termination. Immediate. And not one dime of PSU or state money be used for their legal fees.
The danger here is that as the school drags it's feet, the drip-drip-drip of new, damning information is going to lead to a tsunami of public disgust. Taking bold action now will be distasteful for those at the top and for Paterno supporters. But the longer they stall, the more potential harm develops for Penn State's football program and for the university in general.
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Post by Not Me on Nov 8, 2011 12:06:04 GMT -5
if you want to be entertained, listen to the Paterno news conference today. I'm sure he will attempt to brush this off,and refuse to answer questions. he will probably even threaten to walk out, as he has done in the past when he doesn't like the questions. Only problem for him is that this isn't the usual local media. He will have the big boys there, and this is a national story. They won't stop asking because they don't want to offend "Joe Pa" I don't see how he looks good in any way after this. never mind. PSU cancels the press conference. Maybe if PSU ignores the story long enough, it will just go away.
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