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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Nov 8, 2011 12:34:27 GMT -5
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Post by Wiswell on Nov 8, 2011 13:05:07 GMT -5
I agree with lionsfan on most of his points, except with respect to the janitors, and to an extend, McQuery.
It is difficult, no matter what the gravity of the situation, to "go around" superiors when reporting incidents that you know to be wrong, either morally or criminally, because of the pecuniary consequences that may result to you. An $8 an hour janitor NEEDS his job - nobody goes around acusing JoePa of not doing his job and gets away without personal damages, no matter how valid the accusation.
You have to understand the PSU culture, which lionsfan does, I agree. You don't mess with Paterno or there are consequences. Why do fans complain when we don't get much information on the volleyball program or other non-football sports programs? It's because of JoePa, that's why - it diverts the focus from football. He is as untouchable as J. Edgar Hoover.
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Nov 8, 2011 13:10:43 GMT -5
I am thinking JoePa is about to lose his untouchable status.
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Post by bigfan on Nov 8, 2011 13:15:20 GMT -5
Joe Pa will be gone by Friday. Exit being discussed right now.
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Post by Phaedrus on Nov 8, 2011 13:16:40 GMT -5
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Post by azvb on Nov 8, 2011 15:13:38 GMT -5
I agree with lionsfan on most of his points, except with respect to the janitors, and to an extend, McQuery. It is difficult, no matter what the gravity of the situation, to "go around" superiors when reporting incidents that you know to be wrong, either morally or criminally, because of the pecuniary consequences that may result to you. An $8 an hour janitor NEEDS his job - nobody goes around acusing JoePa of not doing his job and gets away without personal damages, no matter how valid the accusation. You have to understand the PSU culture, which lionsfan does, I agree. You don't mess with Paterno or there are consequences. Why do fans complain when we don't get much information on the volleyball program or other non-football sports programs? It's because of JoePa, that's why - it diverts the focus from football. He is as untouchable as J. Edgar Hoover. Sorry, but fear of losing your job doesn't fly when a child is being raped right before your eyes.
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Post by bigfan on Nov 8, 2011 16:09:17 GMT -5
Sorry, but fear of losing your job doesn't fly when a child is being raped right before your eyes. I have no idea how you could not report about this.
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Post by sevb on Nov 8, 2011 16:16:44 GMT -5
I'm not positive I wouldn't be arrested for assault and battery on the adult if I walked in on that situation...
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Post by future on Nov 8, 2011 21:26:43 GMT -5
I'm not positive I wouldn't be arrested for assault and battery on the adult if I walked in on that situation... Mcquery was a grown man and failed to help a 10 year old boy.......folks this was nine+years ago and we now have 60 charges and the 9th victim came forward this morning...and apparently Sandusky was on campus as of last week. Everyone of us have someone dear to us or know someone who is a victim of child abuse.....i cant begin to express the wounds and hurt that this case has reopened for all of them. God bless these nine boys as their lives have forever been changed. There is no rehab for a predator of this nature.
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Post by tomclen on Nov 9, 2011 0:06:39 GMT -5
Yes, Mike McQueary was a grown man. But a very young man. A graduate assistant in his 20's who walked in on the big, strong, dominant defensive coordinator who was the legend behind "Linebacker U." McQueary was distraught, fled the area and called his father who told him to get out, and together, the two of them visited Paterno the next day.
McQueary deserves some criticism for not calling the police, but he just witnessed this iconic defensive coach, a perceived tough guy, apparently having anal sex with a 10 year old boy. In an EMPTY locker room shower. No one else around. One can only assume he was stunned and probably fearful. Maybe fearful for his own life in that situation.
I think those who suggest they would have taken matters into their own hands don't understand the tough, dominant nature of guys like Sandusky in a football coaching setting.
So I'm willing to cut McQueary SOME slack.
But McQueary says he told Paterno, the next day, specifically what he saw. However, Paterno told the grand jury that he was not told the specifics but said only that something disturbing happened that was perhaps sexual in nature.
Frankly, that's all I need to hear. Joe Paterno is/was a powerful head coach. He was Jerry Sandusky's boss. If he thought something disturbing happened perhaps sexual in nature involving his assistant coach...a 58-year old man with a 10-year old boy...he had to go to the police and he had to remove Sandusky from Penn State Football immediately.
But I don't buy Paterno's assertion, which itself is damning enough. I think he was told exactly what happened and was much more concerned about protecting his power, legacy and image.
But even if I'm wrong and Paterno is telling the truth, he still allowed Sandusky to remain a part of Penn State football and enabled a sexual predator to attack and assault even more young victims. All after learing something 'perhaps sexual in nature' happened in an empty shower in an empty Penn State University football locker room.
What sort of man hears something like that about his top assistant and does not fly into a rage and DEMAND answers that very day...and then take action?
I feel sorry for Sandusky's victims. Their lives are forever altered.
But I also feel sorry for those PSU students who took part in a make-shift rally outside Joe Paterno's house late Tuesday. Joe Paterno has dragged this out and now students are foolishly chanting the praises of a man who, in my opinion, is nothing but a cowardly, self-satisfied, vain prick who could bring down everything he and his supporters constantly remind us he worked so hard to build.
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Post by truffleshuffle on Nov 9, 2011 1:00:57 GMT -5
it boggles my mind that you're angry at paterno but are giving the guy who did nothing besides tell his dad the night this occurred - not checking on the safety of the boy in the shower - and then (also) failed to go to police as it became apparent that no investigation was occurring. if you're going to be morally outraged then at least be consistent.
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Post by truffleshuffle on Nov 9, 2011 1:08:13 GMT -5
But McQueary says he told Paterno, the next day, specifically what he saw. However, Paterno told the grand jury that he was not told the specifics but said only that something disturbing happened that was perhaps sexual in nature.what did i say about getting facts right??? you're making stuff up AGAIN. here is what the grand jury report said: there is no "perhaps" in that statement. it says unequivocally that mcqueary reported seeing sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." those things - fondling, doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy - are quite obviously illegal. so even if paterno was told that mcqueary that sandusky was engaging in anal sex with the boy, and he watered it down for curley (which isn't clear), what IS clear is that he told curley that what mcqueary witnessed was a crime. like i said, your moral outrage is justified. you don't need to make stuff up for people to hate paterno. but how can anybody take your contributions in this thread seriously when they are constantly riddled with factual errors?
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Post by sevb on Nov 9, 2011 2:57:26 GMT -5
There are somethings worth getting your own ass kicked for... Standing up for a 10 year old boy who is getting raped is one I think I'm comfortable having on my list!!
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Nov 9, 2011 4:19:26 GMT -5
it boggles my mind that you're angry at paterno but are giving the guy who did nothing besides tell his dad the night this occurred - not checking on the safety of the boy in the shower - and then (also) failed to go to police as it became apparent that no investigation was occurring. if you're going to be morally outraged then at least be consistent. That's a joke! You dare to question the consistency of someone else? Do we need to go back and look at your posts where you supported Paterno's actions? To paraphrase your point, "Paterno did what he was supposed to do by reporting what he knew to his boss." People in glass houses...... I think they are both at fault, but if one has more share of the blame to shoulder for not alerting law enforcement officials there is no mistake it is Paterno. For crying out loud, he was the perpetrators boss!!! And you know what really makes me sick? To see Paterno say things like, "We really all need to say a prayer for the victims." What a humanitarian! Where was your concern the day after you found out your DC sodomized a young boy in the PSU shower Jo? Talk about a lack of consistency.
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Post by future on Nov 9, 2011 6:49:12 GMT -5
I can't begin to tell you how many documented cases of this nature have occurred even within families and were covered up or people looked the other way. It is often easy for people to WANT to believe that it never , couldn't or didn't happen.
It is simply maddening!
I have spoken to my children at length and kids have my school have asked me as they know I'm an alumni.......my message climb to the highest mountain and scream for help.....and never look the other way.
Fight on Penn State......we ARE.
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