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Post by guest2 on Aug 21, 2014 9:04:16 GMT -5
Another sub .500 tournament for this team. Wash, rinse, repeat. They could win a tournament by going undefeated and their match record would still be below .500 for the year.
The highlight of their season so far is probably Emily's drunken aunt/mother, whoever that was, shrieking her head off at Manahattan. At what point does enough become enough?
Teams with which these guys were competitive last year are killing them. Most of their elimination losses are by big margins too. This team either can't or won't fight. What would it take for them to break up?
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Post by crawdaddy on Aug 21, 2014 10:13:40 GMT -5
Teams break up if there is a better option for one of the partners. What are the better options for either of them? Carico? Fopma?
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Post by guest2 on Aug 21, 2014 10:20:53 GMT -5
Teams break up if there is a better option for one of the partners. What are the better options for either of them? Carico? Fopma? You do make a good point there, but I would say that if there are no options that are definitely better, there are a bunch at or around the same level who might be better fits. Carico's quickness would balance Summer's lead feet and Summer's hands would mitigate Carico's hitting issues. (on a related note, I would love to see Summer take more transition balls overhand) I think Branagh, Pavlik, Hochevar, and Fendrick are all at or above the same level as these two. If I were Emily Day i would be blowing up Fendi's phone with the hopes that Brooke will be out for a while.
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Post by klazk on Aug 21, 2014 10:58:30 GMT -5
The unknown with this ... and partner switches in general at this point in the 4-year cycle ... is that once again there is no indication of how Olympic berths are going to be awarded to specific teams. If it is the same as last cycle, you will have play at least 12 FIVB tournaments together (and finish in the top FIVB during the period) to qualify. So maybe a case of the partner you know is better than the one you don't know with a possible Olympic berth on the line this close to the beginning of the qualifying period.
It would be completely different if the US is going to hold trials and the rules were known to everybody on how teams for trials were going to be determined.
For better or worse it seems like the Olympics are the overriding motivation/goal for the majority of the upper level players.
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Post by crawdaddy on Aug 21, 2014 11:03:59 GMT -5
Teams break up if there is a better option for one of the partners. What are the better options for either of them? Carico? Fopma? You do make a good point there, but I would say that if there are no options that are definitely better, there are a bunch at or around the same level who might be better fits. Carico's quickness would balance Summer's lead feet and Summer's hands would mitigate Carico's hitting issues. (on a related note, I would love to see Summer take more transition balls overhand) I think Branagh, Pavlik, Hochevar, and Fendrick are all at or above the same level as these two. If I were Emily Day i would be blowing up Fendi's phone with the hopes that Brooke will be out for a while. Should be interesting to see the partner changing after this season ends as teams pair up for Olympic qualifying. If Ross/Day break up, Carico does seem like the obvious partner for Summer. I don't see Fendrick splitting with Sweat, but when Fopma comes back she'll probably be looking for a new partner. Will be much more off-season drama on the women's side than the men's, where I wouldn't be surprised if teams remained pretty much the same.
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Post by crawdaddy on Aug 21, 2014 11:05:42 GMT -5
The unknown with this ... and partner switches in general at this point in the 4-year cycle ... is that once again there is no indication of how Olympic berths are going to be awarded to specific teams. If it is the same as last cycle, you will have play at least 12 FIVB tournaments together (and finish in the top FIVB during the period) to qualify. So maybe a case of the partner you know is better than the one you don't know with a possible Olympic berth on the line this close to the beginning of the qualifying period. It would be completely different if the US is going to hold trials and the rules were known to everybody on how teams for trials were going to be determined. For better or worse it seems like the Olympics are the overriding motivation/goal for the majority of the upper level players. I thought the qualifying process had already been announced. I must have been mistaken. Your point about how this will drive the partner changes is spot on.
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Post by klazk on Aug 21, 2014 11:11:07 GMT -5
I thought the qualifying process had already been announced. I must have been mistaken. Your point about how this will drive the partner changes is spot on. How federations (countries) earn Olympic berths has been announced. However how a federation awards berths to individual teams is up to the federation (within some eligibility rules established by FIVB. It is the federation level process that has not been determined by the US governing bodies (unless I missed it completely).
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Post by guest2 on Aug 21, 2014 11:21:23 GMT -5
The unknown with this ... and partner switches in general at this point in the 4-year cycle ... is that once again there is no indication of how Olympic berths are going to be awarded to specific teams. If it is the same as last cycle, you will have play at least 12 FIVB tournaments together (and finish in the top FIVB during the period) to qualify. So maybe a case of the partner you know is better than the one you don't know with a possible Olympic berth on the line this close to the beginning of the qualifying period. It would be completely different if the US is going to hold trials and the rules were known to everybody on how teams for trials were going to be determined. For better or worse it seems like the Olympics are the overriding motivation/goal for the majority of the upper level players. Even if they are already concerned about the Olympics, shouldnt the goal of these players be to form a team that has a chance of doing something in the Olympics rather than preserving their spots at all costs so they can finish 25th? The emphasis on the Olympics is stupid and hurts the sport. It always has.
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Post by klazk on Aug 21, 2014 11:31:10 GMT -5
Even if they are already concerned about the Olympics, shouldnt the goal of these players be to form a team that has a chance of doing something in the Olympics rather than preserving their spots at all costs so they can finish 25th? I think this would be an EXCELLENT question for a player that has been versus one that missed out. The reason I would think would be financial. Would making the Olympics and getting the exposure and endorsements that come along with it, worth being conservative with your partner choices. I'm sure the money is the reason most would cite for the Olympic focus. I think it is one of those arguments that can never be won on either side without a parallel universe. Impossible to prove whether or not the game would grow more and increase everyone's exposure and earnings if there wasn't so much focus on the Olympics.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 21, 2014 12:06:56 GMT -5
Even if they are already concerned about the Olympics, shouldnt the goal of these players be to form a team that has a chance of doing something in the Olympics rather than preserving their spots at all costs so they can finish 25th? I think this would be an EXCELLENT question for a player that has been versus one that missed out. The reason I would think would be financial. Would making the Olympics and getting the exposure and endorsements that come along with it, worth being conservative with your partner choices. I'm sure the money is the reason most would cite for the Olympic focus. I think it is one of those arguments that can never be won on either side without a parallel universe. Impossible to prove whether or not the game would grow more and increase everyone's exposure and earnings if there wasn't so much focus on the Olympics. Also to these points, it's just not Summer/Day that would have to take stock in their chances, but also Fendrick/Sweat. They are the 2nd USA team right now, but can they medal? Could Fendrick pick up a more explosive player like Lane and have a better shot? IDK.
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Post by wang pu on Aug 21, 2014 12:15:41 GMT -5
If the Olympics were the ultimate goal and if the US were too hold trials, Summer/Day have a good chance at that second berth, in playing only US teams.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 21, 2014 12:54:29 GMT -5
To the extent that the Olympics mean money, that is only true if you win. Plus if you are Summer Ross, are you going to waste two seasons of your prime grinding out 9ths and 17ths to ensure 45 minutes of time on the Olympic broadcast two years from now?
i think Summer has the talent to consistently finish 5th-9th as opposed to 9th to 17th (her current average more or less). The average difference in those finishes is $5,000. So between now and the Olympics sticking with a weak partner, or just in a team that is done, more or less, means giving up around $70k plus sponsor incentives.
That doesnt seem smart. Also remember Dax and Stein, who had one good finish and then stuck together because they needed to to have any chance of qualifying. They went to the Olympics and got 5th and no one remembered it a week later. (when they broke up) They played together on the FIVB and AVP all year in 2004 and stunk. The difference between Dax' prize money and wins between 2004 (the Olympic year) and 2005 was huge and Dax did not even play on the FIVB that year
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Post by guest2 on Aug 21, 2014 18:43:34 GMT -5
Another 17th and 1-3 tournament for Summer Day
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 21, 2014 20:19:07 GMT -5
Can anyone name any highly ranked females HAND SETTING as good as Summer (or at ALL?)? Summer is SO much smarter than people think, as when I've watched her play over the last couple of years. There is so much parity around the AVP/FIVB, people FORGET that even Walsh/Ross were a couple of points away from leaving the FIVB Long Beach on Friday, only to go on to win. I think people will agree you reach your prime around 28-30 and Summer's almost a decade away from that! Emily is 27, SO, I think we should be seeing much better results soon.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 22, 2014 7:53:58 GMT -5
Can anyone name any highly ranked females HAND SETTING as good as Summer (or at ALL?)? Summer is SO much smarter than people think, as when I've watched her play over the last couple of years. There is so much parity around the AVP/FIVB, people FORGET that even Walsh/Ross were a couple of points away from leaving the FIVB Long Beach on Friday, only to go on to win. I think people will agree you reach your prime around 28-30 and Summer's almost a decade away from that! Emily is 27, SO, I think we should be seeing much better results soon. I think the issue is, they were expected to be the #2 team coming into this year. They had an outstanding AVP season last year. Last year they were in 3 finals. This year they have 3 semi-finals as the highlight so far, However the deceiving part of this statement is, in the 4 AVPs, they've played April & Kerri in the Semis 3 of those 4 times. So, are they really having THAT bad of an AVP season? They have 8 total match loses: 3 to April/Kerri 1 to Lane/Britt 4 to Brooke/Jen (this is the big stat, Brooke & Jen have beaten them every time they've faced them on the AVP this year. Once every tournament)
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