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Post by jgrout on Dec 3, 2014 15:44:27 GMT -5
I feel like starting a thread with a rumor that JMac is trying to get an extra year of eligibility for Vansant. jgrout would explode. I mean, literally. Red paste all over the computer screen. Well, maybe not. If you talked about getting Hancock an extra year of eligibility for Penn State, I would explode blue and orange paste.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 15:46:44 GMT -5
The five players who have won PAC POY two years in a row: Krista Vansant (Washington; 2013-14) Foluke Akindradewo (Stanford; 2007-08) Logan Tom (Stanford; 2001-02) Kerri Walsh (Stanford; 1998-99) Daiva Tomkus (UCLA; 1988-89) Thanks Mike! I was all over the PAC 12 site yesterday and couldn't find it. Where did you find it at?
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Post by redbeard2008 on Dec 3, 2014 15:55:57 GMT -5
The fact that Jim trusts his players to serve tough is nice but there is no arguing Cassie isn't a good server. Over the course of this season she has successfully managed to score more points for her opponents than for her team. From your double-negative, I assume you're arguing that Strickland is not a good server simply because she had more service errors than aces. That is a fundamental misunderstanding on your part. I'm through trying to correct it, since it is like trying to talk to a blank wall. Just for the record, I would not have been surprised if Gilbert or Benson had been named LOY, nor would I have claimed that either were undeserving. I acknowledge there are good arguments that can be made for each. All I've said is that there are also good arguments for Strickland, which were apparently sufficient to convince at least a plurality of the coaches (assuming that LOY was simply the libero who got the most votes). And, yes, head-to-head might have turned enough votes from Gilbert to Strickland to make the difference, as well as from Lowe or Ajanaku to Vansant in the POY vote.
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Post by pavbfan on Dec 3, 2014 16:04:41 GMT -5
I think it was a toss up between strickland and formico for libero of the year. Strickland has an awesome serve and I believe that is the reason she got the award because she adds another dynamic to the libero position. Unfortunately, when looking at libero statistics there is no serve receive statistic to tell how well a libero is at passing. The reason I put Formico and Strickland together is because Strickland had a dynamic serve which is a huge asset for that UW team, but Formico is the best serve receive libero in the Pac-12 which is why I believe she got honorable mention. It is a difficult position to judge because normally digs per set doesn't really portray how good the libero actually is. How well you keep a team in system (serve receive) and your communication skills is what I believe make a great libero. Don't know if it's common knowledge, but Formico, Ronnie Lewis (Az), and Joan Caloiaro (Cal, last year) are all cousins of Kerri Walsh. TV announcers rarely mention it. Some amazing athletes in that family.
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Post by bobk3333 on Dec 3, 2014 16:04:50 GMT -5
Night and day.
Cassie Strickland at the end of the season was a hundred times better than the Cassie Strickland we saw at the start of the season.
What Cassie Strickland did was absolutely incredible. She went from a near beginner and improved dramatically every week. At the beginning of the season, she was probably the worst libero in the conference. By the end of the season, by the month of November, she was clearly, by a wide margin, the best libero in the Pac-12, if not the country..
Her serve improved a lot about the same time. It wasn't until she got comfortable at the position, without so much distraction, that her serve started to come together. For most of the season, Vansant was the best server on the team, with Wade a close second. By the last month of the season, Strickland, with her much improved consistency, was *clearly* the best server on the team. She has more power on her serves than Bricio (yes she does) and now her consistency is probably now at least equivalent.
The rapid improvement has not ended. She will be spectacular in the tournament.
Next year, I expect her to improve to whole new level, and I think she will not only be the best who ever played, but will redefine the position. There just have not been many (probably any) players at that position who are as athletic as she is. Liberos, who tend to be short, with limited jumping ability, do not have killer jump serves like hers. Plus, probably because of her linebacker experience, she makes more athletic moves and covers more ground than any libero I have *ever* seen -- and we have seen a couple of great ones here at Washington. She is like a soccer goal tender back there the way she covers ground. She will do everything all other liberos do, but will add a whole lot more.
It would be unusual for someone right out of college, but because of all she brings to the table above and beyond everyone else playing the position, and because of her truly unbelievable rate of improvement, I would not be totally shocked (hold on to your hats) if she made the 2016 Olympic team.
What has happened this season should not be that surprising. Cassie Strickland expects to be great. She admires Steve Young and Courtney Thompson, but refuses to call them idols:
“If I call someone an idol, I feel like that’s me accepting that someone is better than me. I can’t do that. I want to be the best.” --Cassie Strickland
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Post by tomclen on Dec 3, 2014 16:09:07 GMT -5
Night and day. Cassie Strickland at the end of the season was a hundred times better than the Cassie Strickland we saw at the start of the season. What Cassie Strickland did was absolutely incredible,. She went from a near beginner and improved dramatically every week. At the beginning of the season, she was probably the worst libero in the conference. By the end of the season, by the month of November, she was clearly, by a wide margin, the best libero in the Pac-12, if not the country.. Her serve improved a lot about the same time. It wasn't until she got comfortable at the position, without so much distraction, that her serve started to come together. For most of the season, Vansant was the best server on the team, with Wade a close second. By the last month of the season, Strickland, with her much improved consistency, was *clearly* the best server on the team. She has more power on her serves than Bricio (yes she does) and now her consistency is probably now at least equivalent. The rapid improvement has not ended. She will be spectacular in the tournament. Next year, I expect her to improve to whole new level, and I think she will not only be the best who ever played, but will redefine the position. There just have not been many (probably any) players at that position who are as athletic as she is. Liberos, who tend to be short, with limited jumping ability, do not have killer jump serves like hers. Plus, probably because of her linebacker experience, she makes more athletic moves and covers more ground than any libero I have *ever* seen -- and we have seen a couple of great ones here at Washington. She is like a soccer goal tender back there the way she covers ground. She will do everything all other liberos do, but will add a whole lot more. It would be unusual for someone right out of college, but because of all she brings to the table above and beyond everyone else playing the position, and because of her truly unbelievable rate of improvement, I would not be totally shocked (hold on to your hats) if she made the 2016 Olympic team. What has happened this season should not be that surprising. Cassie Strickland expects to be great. She admires Steve Young and Courtney Thompson, but refuses to call them idols: “If I call someone an idol, I feel like that’s me accepting that someone is better than me. I can’t do that. I want to be the best.” --Cassie Strickland . Thanks, Mrs. Strickland.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 3, 2014 16:23:42 GMT -5
The five players who have won PAC POY two years in a row: Krista Vansant (Washington; 2013-14) Foluke Akindradewo (Stanford; 2007-08) Logan Tom (Stanford; 2001-02) Kerri Walsh (Stanford; 1998-99) Daiva Tomkus (UCLA; 1988-89) Thanks Mike! I was all over the PAC 12 site yesterday and couldn't find it. Where did you find it at? It was in a press release. But the same information (and a lot more) is available off the PAC-12 website in the annual media guide.
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Post by vllybll09 on Dec 3, 2014 16:27:16 GMT -5
Having more errors than aces does not mean she's not a good server. The goal of UW's serving is to get opponents out-of-system - aces are merely a side-benefit, and errors a side-cost. If UW had backed off on their serving, to cut down on service errors, Stanford almost certainly would have won, in that good passes would have allowed Bugg to set Ajanaku and Lutz at will. Ultimately, it was Stanford that ended up having both fewer aces and more service errors than UW. I'm not discounting digging - digs/set as a comparative measure is pretty meaningless, however, for the reasons I already stated. Generally, the more aces (and service errors) and blocks, the fewer digs. You're perfectly welcome to your opinion. The coaches thought otherwise. The fact that Jim trusts his players to serve tough is nice but there is no arguing Cassie isn't a good server. Over the course of this season she has successfully managed to score more points for her opponents than for her team. It is a real gamble. I agree when on like it was in the Stanford game it is a real game changer but when its off it does more harm than good. I wasn't referring to UW as a team. No one and I don't even think you thought Cassie was in the running for the libero of the year. What's so disappointing to me is that I feel the coaches looked at the Stanford/UW game as a tiebreaker to who should get the award. It's not an award for who had a better game but who has had the better conference season. The answer is Gilbert. The stats say that and I believe her play shows that. More than anything I think it is unfortunate because Its Gilbert's a senior and won't have a shot at it again. We can agree to disagree the site would be no fun if everyone had the same opinion what I was hoping for was a UW fan to convince me of why Cassie won the award but no one has yet to do that. If its her serve well I say her serve percentage isn't great or better than Gilbert's and to say she gets less digs because UW is the best blocking and serving team isn't a valid argument because there is no way to successfully measure whether the block or ace prevented Cassie from getting a dig. Those things are intangible and immeasurable. Her serve reception is better but barely and not enough to make up the difference in digs per set. Here are a few things I would take into consideration when looking at the LOY award... First, the coaches in the conference, who have seen Strickland and the other liberos play all season, are the ones who voted for this award. As much as everyone on this board would like to think we know more about what is going on out there on the court, I would say that the coaches out there may have a bit more insight. That being said, here are my opinions...To say that there is no arguing that Strickland isn't a good server, seems just silly. Yes, she makes more errors than aces, but you know what, she also takes teams out of system consistently with that serve and I think that if we added up the points from overpasses that were crushed back to the other side of the court, you would be surprised. It also has a mental and intimidation factor to it, when you see the other team bracing themselves when they see her step back to the service line, that is added value to what she brings to the court. Aside from the serving aspect, as a libero, what everyone seems to look at is digs. I would agree that her DPS have not been the highest but consider that those players in the other libero positions have probably been playing those spots for quite a while. This is the FIRST season that Strickland has played this position, not just for UW, but EVER. I would say that the growth she has shown in the last few months is quite impressive and shows huge promise. I think that the things that make her such a strong player on the court and also probably got her the award are things that are very hard to measure. There are the obvious things like having a good second contact after the setter digs the ball, block coverage is also one that doesnt get tracked but I have seen her pick up some incredible saves on block coverage, there are a ton of things that are not tracked but are valuable. Unless you are at a match and can see and hear what she is doing out there, you may not appreciate it. At the beginning of the season she was quiet, quieter than I have ever seen her in a match, I am betting it was due to finding her place in a new role and figuring it out. Now, especially if you were at the Stanford match, even over 9k fans, you can hear her, directing, calling out to each and every player on her team, letting them know what shots are open and where their blockers are. She is a co-captain and leader, emotionally and in every other way you can imagine. That kid is an all-out, leave nothing on the floor, player and if she has been this good in her first season, I cannot wait to see what the future holds for her. I think that to judge these awards purely based on stats would be a disservice to the players, no one is just numbers on a sheet of paper. If they bring their best every day, make those around them better by being there, and keep their teammates moving forward while learning, than they are doing great things. These are some of the reasons that the LOY award may have gone to her. Regardless,
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Dec 3, 2014 16:28:11 GMT -5
Night and day. Cassie Strickland at the end of the season was a hundred times better than the Cassie Strickland we saw at the start of the season. What Cassie Strickland did was absolutely incredible. She went from a near beginner and improved dramatically every week. At the beginning of the season, she was probably the worst libero in the conference. By the end of the season, by the month of November, she was clearly, by a wide margin, the best libero in the Pac-12, if not the country.. Her serve improved a lot about the same time. It wasn't until she got comfortable at the position, without so much distraction, that her serve started to come together. For most of the season, Vansant was the best server on the team, with Wade a close second. By the last month of the season, Strickland, with her much improved consistency, was *clearly* the best server on the team. She has more power on her serves than Bricio (yes she does) and now her consistency is probably now at least equivalent. The rapid improvement has not ended. She will be spectacular in the tournament. Next year, I expect her to improve to whole new level, and I think she will not only be the best who ever played, but will redefine the position. There just have not been many (probably any) players at that position who are as athletic as she is. Liberos, who tend to be short, with limited jumping ability, do not have killer jump serves like hers. Plus, probably because of her linebacker experience, she makes more athletic moves and covers more ground than any libero I have *ever* seen -- and we have seen a couple of great ones here at Washington. She is like a soccer goal tender back there the way she covers ground. She will do everything all other liberos do, but will add a whole lot more. It would be unusual for someone right out of college, but because of all she brings to the table above and beyond everyone else playing the position, and because of her truly unbelievable rate of improvement, I would not be totally shocked (hold on to your hats) if she made the 2016 Olympic team. What has happened this season should not be that surprising. Cassie Strickland expects to be great. She admires Steve Young and Courtney Thompson, but refuses to call them idols: “If I call someone an idol, I feel like that’s me accepting that someone is better than me. I can’t do that. I want to be the best.” --Cassie Strickland Words fail me. Just...Wow.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 17:06:26 GMT -5
This thread is turning into a Strickland family reunion...
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Post by timduckforlife on Dec 3, 2014 17:13:44 GMT -5
Night and day. Cassie Strickland at the end of the season was a hundred times better than the Cassie Strickland we saw at the start of the season. What Cassie Strickland did was absolutely incredible. She went from a near beginner and improved dramatically every week. At the beginning of the season, she was probably the worst libero in the conference. By the end of the season, by the month of November, she was clearly, by a wide margin, the best libero in the Pac-12, if not the country.. Her serve improved a lot about the same time. It wasn't until she got comfortable at the position, without so much distraction, that her serve started to come together. For most of the season, Vansant was the best server on the team, with Wade a close second. By the last month of the season, Strickland, with her much improved consistency, was *clearly* the best server on the team. She has more power on her serves than Bricio (yes she does) and now her consistency is probably now at least equivalent. The rapid improvement has not ended. She will be spectacular in the tournament. Next year, I expect her to improve to whole new level, and I think she will not only be the best who ever played, but will redefine the position. There just have not been many (probably any) players at that position who are as athletic as she is. Liberos, who tend to be short, with limited jumping ability, do not have killer jump serves like hers. Plus, probably because of her linebacker experience, she makes more athletic moves and covers more ground than any libero I have *ever* seen -- and we have seen a couple of great ones here at Washington. She is like a soccer goal tender back there the way she covers ground. She will do everything all other liberos do, but will add a whole lot more. It would be unusual for someone right out of college, but because of all she brings to the table above and beyond everyone else playing the position, and because of her truly unbelievable rate of improvement, I would not be totally shocked (hold on to your hats) if she made the 2016 Olympic team. What has happened this season should not be that surprising. Cassie Strickland expects to be great. She admires Steve Young and Courtney Thompson, but refuses to call them idols: “If I call someone an idol, I feel like that’s me accepting that someone is better than me. I can’t do that. I want to be the best.” --Cassie Strickland Words fail me. Just...Wow. gotta respond to this. Athletic ability does not define a libero. Sure it helps, but positioning, reads, reaction, and technique are extremely key. I would add that defense isn't something she hasn't been known for. She was a 6 position player last year. And at times was subbed out of the front row. Thus the switch to libero isn't as big as some might think. I would add that in terms of libero's, are you seriously saying that a Cassie Strickland has an advantage over someone like a Natalie Hagglund? Arguably the best libero the Pac-12 has ever had? Does she have more athleticism than a Haley Jacobs (who worked out the football teams running back and sprinters), and by all the tests the UofO did, she was the best athlete there as well. And she was tested against pure athletes like De'Anthony Thomas, now playing for the KC Chiefs. If indeed as you predict or hope, she could make the 2016 team, but if she does, it won't be because of her defense, but because of her jump serve and as thus a serve specialist, not unlike Eric Sato back in the day. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not discounting her ability, raw talent, and athleticism, but I think it's a bit early, especially considering most people on this board and in this thread tend to think that she wasn't the best libero. My gut feeling on the LOY award went to her basically because of the UW/Stanford match. I think it was a probably fairly even split between Strickland, Gilbert, and Benson, and maybe a vote for Formico, and that match swayed a vote or 2 in Stricklands direction because she clearly outplayed Gilbert, and Stanford also tried to hide Gilbert at times on serve receive as well. Thus I think some Gilbert voters went to Strickland and that's all it took.
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Post by babybokchoy on Dec 3, 2014 17:28:05 GMT -5
Her serve is amazing but that's not gonna help her internationally as a libero, since they are not allowed to serve.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 17:41:00 GMT -5
Good lord. Just move on and let her have her glory. What's done, is done.
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Post by ay2013 on Dec 3, 2014 17:48:42 GMT -5
Night and day. Cassie Strickland at the end of the season was a hundred times better than the Cassie Strickland we saw at the start of the season. What Cassie Strickland did was absolutely incredible. She went from a near beginner and improved dramatically every week. At the beginning of the season, she was probably the worst libero in the conference. By the end of the season, by the month of November, she was clearly, by a wide margin, the best libero in the Pac-12, if not the country.. Her serve improved a lot about the same time. It wasn't until she got comfortable at the position, without so much distraction, that her serve started to come together. For most of the season, Vansant was the best server on the team, with Wade a close second. By the last month of the season, Strickland, with her much improved consistency, was *clearly* the best server on the team. She has more power on her serves than Bricio (yes she does) and now her consistency is probably now at least equivalent. The rapid improvement has not ended. She will be spectacular in the tournament. Next year, I expect her to improve to whole new level, and I think she will not only be the best who ever played, but will redefine the position. There just have not been many (probably any) players at that position who are as athletic as she is. Liberos, who tend to be short, with limited jumping ability, do not have killer jump serves like hers. Plus, probably because of her linebacker experience, she makes more athletic moves and covers more ground than any libero I have *ever* seen -- and we have seen a couple of great ones here at Washington. She is like a soccer goal tender back there the way she covers ground. She will do everything all other liberos do, but will add a whole lot more. It would be unusual for someone right out of college, but because of all she brings to the table above and beyond everyone else playing the position, and because of her truly unbelievable rate of improvement, I would not be totally shocked (hold on to your hats) if she made the 2016 Olympic team. What has happened this season should not be that surprising. Cassie Strickland expects to be great. She admires Steve Young and Courtney Thompson, but refuses to call them idols: “If I call someone an idol, I feel like that’s me accepting that someone is better than me. I can’t do that. I want to be the best.” --Cassie Strickland . Wow, tell us how you really feel.
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Post by ay2013 on Dec 3, 2014 17:54:34 GMT -5
Good lord. Just move on and let her have her glory. What's done, is done. Come on now, when you have people posting that she's going to be the best libero the game as ever seen next year, how do you expect people to react? Comments like those are no less distracting as those who question her getting the award in the first place.
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