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Post by tempesthorn on Jun 10, 2015 12:07:34 GMT -5
When someone is attacking a players's height REPEATEDLY, the timing of the player's recruiting offer, the player's footwork, the player's technique, the player's ability to play D1 ball before they ever set foot on the court, the player's ability to lead a team to the final four in 2015 despite the fact they've been on two final four teams previously, the player's ability to play front row despite the fact there are examples of short setters doing just that while leading teams to championships, jumps on this board and lies about another setter wanting to come to Texas but couldn't because of the player, and repeats all the above everytime someone mentions the player's name; I start to get the impression things might be personal. To say the an opinion is personal because it's repeated is silly. He has a strongly held belief, which by the way, is not his alone. I repeat it often, but it's usually in response to TX fans who seem to think team results are directly correlated to Chloe's skill. It could be in response to overly aggressive Texas fans who don't have the requisite experience or knowledge to evaluate setter skills and be credible. Well aware that you think you're a setter expert and that you're the only one qualified to make a knowledgeable post about setting. It is silly to me that you pm'ed your resume to me to validate your posts. I'm still laughing about that one. BTW, I'm the new setter coach for Brazil. Now I'm qualified to post about setters on volley talk. The overly aggressive Texas fans making posts about how great Collins and Neal are is a storyline you and Devaluation have made up in your own minds to feed your need for drama and up your post counts.
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Texas 2015
Jun 10, 2015 12:11:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Disc808 on Jun 10, 2015 12:11:17 GMT -5
I agree. Chloe isn't really that good. I mean, look at the semis. She was struggling to connect with her hitters and she just moonballed it. I mean there's no skill in that. Look at carlini or bugg and you'll see what it takes to be a good setter. You cannot blame the moonball on Collins; you can blame location of sets on the setter, but Elliott has played that style for the last several years because he had serious high flyers like Hooker, Webster, Eckerman, etc. that could get up and hit over most blocks. Hannah Allison was criticized for the moonball while she was at Texas. Playing a moonball offense is the coach's decision not a player's decision.
This past spring Texas played a faster offense and Collins looked much better and more confident in that offense so if they play the faster offense in 2015 I think it will benefit the setters and players like Neal if she is on the court.
Texas will be lethal for years to come.
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Post by elevationvb on Jun 10, 2015 12:30:42 GMT -5
Not at all. When you play for one of the top programs in the nation and were recruited there as an 8th or 9th grader, one might expect a little more than what she has provided. She hasn't gotten noticeably better (or taller) since middle school. What was the rush? Come on! I don't blame the kid though, that's all on JE. I agree. Chloe isn't really that good. I mean, look at the semis. She was struggling to connect with her hitters and she just moonballed it. I mean there's no skill in that. Look at carlini or bugg and you'll see what it takes to be a good setter. In a 6-2, she doesn't need to be a Carlini or Bugg.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 12:39:16 GMT -5
Please continue to defend Devaluation and I'll remind you that he's a poster that attacked Chloe and her "skills" before she ever played a match at the University of Texas. Continually going on about someone's height is a personal attack, no different than a player's weight or physical appearance. How can it not be personal when posters continue to point out to him that other teams have had success with smaller setters and his counterpoint is Carpenter lost her starting job as if in some way that devalues her National Championship? You wouldn't want a shorter setter. You wouldn't want a bad* setter. Shorter setters are not bad setters or unathletic setters. I don't understand why so many people make this mischaracterization. There are a dozen things that impact the effectiveness of a setter more than her height. China won with a 5'1" setter for a decade! There are countless examples in our sport of shorter athletes reaching the highest level of competition in spite of their height. Give it up already. It's such a lame critique when you have nothing of value to add to a conversation about their actual skills, abilities, or potential.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 12:41:20 GMT -5
and LLoyd was average at best in her NCAA final. It happens, just a bad time for it to happen. I think Bugg made some poor decisions but that wasn't the reason why they lost. You're wrong.
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Post by elevationvb on Jun 10, 2015 13:15:16 GMT -5
To say the an opinion is personal because it's repeated is silly. He has a strongly held belief, which by the way, is not his alone. I repeat it often, but it's usually in response to TX fans who seem to think team results are directly correlated to Chloe's skill. It could be in response to overly aggressive Texas fans who don't have the requisite experience or knowledge to evaluate setter skills and be credible. Well aware that you think you're a setter expert and that you're the only one qualified to make a knowledgeable post about setting. It is silly to me that you pm'ed your resume to me to validate your posts. I'm still laughing about that one. BTW, I'm the new setter coach for Brazil. Now I'm qualified to post about setters on volley talk. The overly aggressive Texas fans making posts about how great Collins and Neal are is a storyline you and Devaluation have made up in your own minds to feed your need for drama and up your post counts. Congratulations! Only you could unite / lump me and SportyBucky! I'm sure he is jumping with joy at the association. I on the other hand am now feeling quite glum and deevaluated.
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Post by SportyBucky on Jun 10, 2015 13:35:44 GMT -5
To say the an opinion is personal because it's repeated is silly. He has a strongly held belief, which by the way, is not his alone. I repeat it often, but it's usually in response to TX fans who seem to think team results are directly correlated to Chloe's skill. It could be in response to overly aggressive Texas fans who don't have the requisite experience or knowledge to evaluate setter skills and be credible. Well aware that you think you're a setter expert and that you're the only one qualified to make a knowledgeable post about setting. It is silly to me that you pm'ed your resume to me to validate your posts. I'm still laughing about that one. BTW, I'm the new setter coach for Brazil. Now I'm qualified to post about setters on volley talk. The overly aggressive Texas fans making posts about how great Collins and Neal are is a storyline you and Devaluation have made up in your own minds to feed your need for drama and up your post counts. Ok. thanks. I'll put you back on ignore.
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Post by SportyBucky on Jun 10, 2015 13:37:38 GMT -5
Well aware that you think you're a setter expert and that you're the only one qualified to make a knowledgeable post about setting. It is silly to me that you pm'ed your resume to me to validate your posts. I'm still laughing about that one. BTW, I'm the new setter coach for Brazil. Now I'm qualified to post about setters on volley talk. The overly aggressive Texas fans making posts about how great Collins and Neal are is a storyline you and Devaluation have made up in your own minds to feed your need for drama and up your post counts. Congratulations! Only you could unite / lump me and SportyBucky! I'm sure he is jumping with joy at the association. I on the other hand am now feeling quite glum and deevaluated. Yeah. There's not a first time for everything, and I could have done without this first time.
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Post by elevationvb on Jun 10, 2015 13:43:45 GMT -5
Congratulations! Only you could unite / lump me and SportyBucky! I'm sure he is jumping with joy at the association. I on the other hand am now feeling quite glum and deevaluated. Yeah. There's not a first time for everything, and I could have done without this first time. Yea, I'd shake on it, but you know . . .
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Post by SportyBucky on Jun 10, 2015 13:52:57 GMT -5
I agree. Chloe isn't really that good. I mean, look at the semis. She was struggling to connect with her hitters and she just moonballed it. I mean there's no skill in that. Look at carlini or bugg and you'll see what it takes to be a good setter. You cannot blame the moonball on Collins; you can blame location of sets on the setter, but Elliott has played that style for the last several years because he had serious high flyers like Hooker, Webster, Eckerman, etc. that could get up and hit over most blocks. Hannah Allison was criticized for the moonball while she was at Texas. Playing a moonball offense is the coach's decision not a player's decision.
This past spring Texas played a faster offense and Collins looked much better and more confident in that offense so if they play the faster offense in 2015 I think it will benefit the setters and players like Neal if she is on the court.
Agree completely. I do think she leaves her players short on the inside too often and players like Neal are too short to adjust and get blocked. I also think she loses focus and doesn't get to balls as efficiently as she can. Those can be attributed to Chloe. I will say, passing has left a little to be desired and that is not Chloe. She looked MUCH better this spring.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Jun 10, 2015 14:32:38 GMT -5
You wouldn't want a shorter setter. You wouldn't want a bad* setter. Shorter setters are not bad setters or unathletic setters. I don't understand why so many people make this mischaracterization. There are a dozen things that impact the effectiveness of a setter more than her height. China won with a 5'1" setter for a decade! There are countless examples in our sport of shorter athletes reaching the highest level of competition in spite of their height. Give it up already. It's such a lame critique when you have nothing of value to add to a conversation about their actual skills, abilities, or potential. You took one part of my quote, and directly misquoted me. Not once did I say Collins was a bad setter, nor did I say her skills are bad enough to start in a 5-1. But if you had a 6'2 setter and a 5'7 setter, both with the same skill set and athleticism, which one would you take. SO yes, you WOULDNT want a shorter setter.
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Post by Disc808 on Jun 10, 2015 14:38:29 GMT -5
You wouldn't want a bad* setter. Shorter setters are not bad setters or unathletic setters. I don't understand why so many people make this mischaracterization. There are a dozen things that impact the effectiveness of a setter more than her height. China won with a 5'1" setter for a decade! There are countless examples in our sport of shorter athletes reaching the highest level of competition in spite of their height. Give it up already. It's such a lame critique when you have nothing of value to add to a conversation about their actual skills, abilities, or potential. You took one part of my quote, and directly misquoted me. Not once did I say Collins was a bad setter, nor did I say her skills are bad enough to start in a 5-1. But if you had a 6'2 setter and a 5'7 setter, both with the same skill set and athleticism, which one would you take. SO yes, you WOULDNT want a shorter setter. Texas took a huge risk recruiting a lot of pin hitters and it might pay off. But not seeing the benefits right now, maybe later on when they recruit a really good setter and have the entire package. Also Texas needs improvement on passing. That semifinal was just a really poor game for Texas. But 2015 is a new year. Ebony is a really good transfer for Texas hopefully they capitalize.
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Post by tempesthorn on Jun 10, 2015 14:46:22 GMT -5
You cannot blame the moonball on Collins; you can blame location of sets on the setter, but Elliott has played that style for the last several years because he had serious high flyers like Hooker, Webster, Eckerman, etc. that could get up and hit over most blocks. Hannah Allison was criticized for the moonball while she was at Texas. Playing a moonball offense is the coach's decision not a player's decision.
This past spring Texas played a faster offense and Collins looked much better and more confident in that offense so if they play the faster offense in 2015 I think it will benefit the setters and players like Neal if she is on the court.
Agree completely. I do think she leaves her players short on the inside too often and players like Neal are too short to adjust and get blocked. I also think she loses focus and doesn't get to balls as efficiently as she can. Those can be attributed to Chloe. I will say, passing has left a little to be desired and that is not Chloe. She looked MUCH better this spring. This post is an opinion not an attack. It's fair and reasonable (even though I'm not sure about the focus/efficiency comment). I'm being portrayed as someone that thinks all posts should be 100% positive towards Texas but there is a way to present an analysis of a player and there's a way where it comes off as an attack. Recognizing a correlation between the passing and the setting and not expecting the setter to pull great sets out of her ass goes along way towards a fair setter analysis too. Kudos to you. My problem with Devaluation is his "opinion" on her technique came after the spring match when Texas' passing was absolute crap. (it was very up and down this spring) I'm not sure what's the value in a match where Texas passed closer to the service line and the stands than the 10 foot line, deciding to post your "opinion" on setter technique. It comes off as an attack and like you're looking for something to find fault with in a player. But he seems to have a fair number of you convinced he NEVER attacks a player unfairly. On that, we do not agree.
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Post by southie on Jun 10, 2015 15:56:47 GMT -5
You took one part of my quote, and directly misquoted me. Not once did I say Collins was a bad setter, nor did I say her skills are bad enough to start in a 5-1. But if you had a 6'2 setter and a 5'7 setter, both with the same skill set and athleticism, which one would you take. SO yes, you WOULDNT want a shorter setter. Texas took a huge risk recruiting a lot of pin hitters and it might pay off. But not seeing the benefits right now, maybe later on when they recruit a really good setter and have the entire package. Also Texas needs improvement on passing. That semifinal was just a really poor game for Texas. But 2015 is a new year. Ebony is a really good transfer for Texas hopefully they capitalize. The rewards and benefits have been much greater than what your Stanford team has accomplished recently. Maybe they need your advice much more than Texas does when it comes to recruiting . . .
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Post by Disc808 on Jun 10, 2015 16:00:38 GMT -5
Texas took a huge risk recruiting a lot of pin hitters and it might pay off. But not seeing the benefits right now, maybe later on when they recruit a really good setter and have the entire package. Also Texas needs improvement on passing. That semifinal was just a really poor game for Texas. But 2015 is a new year. Ebony is a really good transfer for Texas hopefully they capitalize. The rewards and benefits have been much greater than what your Stanford team has accomplished recently. Maybe they need your advice much more than Texas does when it comes to recruiting . . . Texas may get into the semis but their path to it is so much easier. And when they reach the semis they lose because they can't pass or set.
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