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Post by badgerbreath on Mar 16, 2015 10:23:05 GMT -5
"Lately" as in during the preseason, not day-to-day. Let me clarify. For example, after everything Deme did for the Badgers as a hitter in 2013, many thought she would start in 2014, and argued that she deserved it. I don't remember this. I remember the opposite, actually, with many, especially those who saw Bates tearing it up for Ultimate for the six months before she left for Madison, saying that Morales would have a very difficult time keeping her spot. Regardless, that isn't the same scenario as what is happening now. What rainbow is talking about definitely happened. It was the discussion when I first joined Volleytalk. And Deme, not Bates, started the first few matches in preseason. Many people really like Deme, including myself, and Bates was an unknown quantity to many of us. Maybe not to you, but that is besides the point. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Mar 16, 2015 11:07:49 GMT -5
There are a lot of us who do not make the rounds of club tournaments and who didn't see Bates until the open practice that took the place of the Cardinal and White Scrimmage.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Mar 16, 2015 11:11:30 GMT -5
I mean, you do have to earn a starting spot daily in practice in that if you start slacking, you will likely lose it. But I agree that the lineup was fairly solidified by the end of the preconference season, and he didn't make a ton of changes after, other than what was needed to accommodate injuries.
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Post by vbprisoner on Mar 16, 2015 11:33:49 GMT -5
Bates is an exceptional 5'10 athlete who connected and competed well with last year's very experienced team. Next fall will see mostly Sheffield recruits on the floor for the first time. It will be fun watching them battle. She was surrounded with experience last year and did well in her role. Now that role could expand this year with so much experience that graduated; will she have the same success as a go to player? I don't know, but a 5'10" OH 1 in the B1G will be challenging. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 12:13:16 GMT -5
I don't remember this. I remember the opposite, actually, with many, especially those who saw Bates tearing it up for Ultimate for the six months before she left for Madison, saying that Morales would have a very difficult time keeping her spot. Regardless, that isn't the same scenario as what is happening now. What rainbow is talking about definitely happened. It was the discussion when I first joined Volleytalk. And Deme, not Bates, started the first few matches in preseason. Many people really like Deme, including myself, and Bates was an unknown quantity to many of us. Maybe not to you, but that is besides the point. It certainly was the discussion, you're correct. Badger fans were desperately hanging onto Morales' performance in 2013, skeptical of Kriskova's talent, and uneducated about Bates, and the rest of us were trying to explain that, yes, Deme did some good things, but she wasn't on the floor because she beat anyone out. She was on the floor because there literally wasn't anyone else, and Kriskova and Bates would be big upgrades in almost every area of the game. Several of you were suggesting that Deme would start over Kriskova, too. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 12:16:07 GMT -5
Bates is an exceptional 5'10 athlete who connected and competed well with last year's very experienced team. Next fall will see mostly Sheffield recruits on the floor for the first time. It will be fun watching them battle. She was surrounded with experience last year and did well in her role. Now that role could expand this year with so much experience that graduated; will she have the same success as a go to player? I don't know, but a 5'10" OH 1 in the B1G will be challenging. Her height doesn't matter. Her athleticism, ability to make plays, and impact on team dynamics is what matters. |
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Post by vbprisoner on Mar 16, 2015 12:33:02 GMT -5
Height does matter when you play against teams like Penn State, Nebraska, Illinois and teams that have same athleticism, and the ability to make plays. Having a 6'1" or 6'2" verses a 5'10" player is a challenge if that player is going to be a go to player. I know Carlini is deceptive and can get her 1 on 1 attacks, but when front row skills are equal I would prefer the 6'2" player.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 12:40:26 GMT -5
Height does matter when you play against teams like Penn State, Nebraska, Illinois and teams that have same athleticism, and the ability to make plays. Having a 6'1" or 6'2" verses a 5'10" player is a challenge if that player is going to be a go to player. I know Carlini is deceptive and can get her 1 on 1 attacks, but when front row skills are equal I would prefer the 6'2" player. Skills aren't equal. Intangible aspects aren't equal. Height doesn't matter if you're as athletic as she is, you can make plays, and you make your teammates better. Height is never a determinant for whether or not someone can succeed at the highest levels, and our sport is full of examples to support that. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Mar 16, 2015 12:51:44 GMT -5
Height does matter when you play against teams like Penn State, Nebraska, Illinois and teams that have same athleticism, and the ability to make plays. Having a 6'1" or 6'2" verses a 5'10" player is a challenge if that player is going to be a go to player. I know Carlini is deceptive and can get her 1 on 1 attacks, but when front row skills are equal I would prefer the 6'2" player. Front row skills is not necessarily the same as height. She's not competing against PSU or Nebraska's outsides, she's competing against the pool at Wisconsin and her front row skills are as developed or better. And you also forget that these individuals play within a team. Wisconsin needs somebody who can both pass and hit - not for every front row position - but they need at least one. Right now, there's no one close to her in that particular role. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Mar 16, 2015 12:52:42 GMT -5
What rainbow is talking about definitely happened. It was the discussion when I first joined Volleytalk. And Deme, not Bates, started the first few matches in preseason. Many people really like Deme, including myself, and Bates was an unknown quantity to many of us. Maybe not to you, but that is besides the point. It certainly was the discussion, you're correct. Badger fans were desperately hanging onto Morales' performance in 2013, skeptical of Kriskova's talent, and uneducated about Bates. For the record, the only thing I was curious about is what Kriskova could do with a huge upgrade at setter, while hitting against a B1G block. And can you please stop talking about being "educated" about recruits as if they were library books that could be checked out, and the rest of us simply didn't do the reading? Most of us are unable to spend our spare time traveling to club tournaments. While I trust Sheff's judgement of recruits, I don't think it's unreasonable to be skeptical of prep players until they are proven against college-level competition. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 13:01:00 GMT -5
It certainly was the discussion, you're correct. Badger fans were desperately hanging onto Morales' performance in 2013, skeptical of Kriskova's talent, and uneducated about Bates. For the record, the only thing I was curious about is what Kriskova could do with a huge upgrade at setter, while hitting against a B1G block. And can you please stop talking about being "educated" about recruits as if they were library books that could be checked out, and the rest of us simply didn't do the reading? Most of us are unable to spend our spare time traveling to club tournaments. While I trust Sheff's judgement of recruits, I don't think it's unreasonable to be skeptical of prep players until they are proven against college-level competition. Fair, but you're being skeptical of prep players that you haven't seen. That's the only thing that's weird to me. |
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Post by SportyBucky on Mar 16, 2015 13:03:52 GMT -5
For the record, the only thing I was curious about is what Kriskova could do with a huge upgrade at setter, while hitting against a B1G block. And can you please stop talking about being "educated" about recruits as if they were library books that could be checked out, and the rest of us simply didn't do the reading? Most of us are unable to spend our spare time traveling to club tournaments. While I trust Sheff's judgement of recruits, I don't think it's unreasonable to be skeptical of prep players until they are proven against college-level competition. Fair, but you're being skeptical of prep players that you haven't seen. That's the only thing that's weird to me. I think one should be skeptical of just about every high school player but for maybe the top 20-25 until they prove themselves against BIG talent. Not every top 50 player turns into a 6 rotation player that's able to, as a true freshman, replace a final four all tournament selection in that player's senior year. |
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Post by badgerbreath on Mar 16, 2015 13:05:04 GMT -5
What rainbow is talking about definitely happened. It was the discussion when I first joined Volleytalk. And Deme, not Bates, started the first few matches in preseason. Many people really like Deme, including myself, and Bates was an unknown quantity to many of us. Maybe not to you, but that is besides the point. It certainly was the discussion, you're correct. Badger fans were desperately hanging onto Morales' performance in 2013, skeptical of Kriskova's talent, and uneducated about Bates, and the rest of us were trying to explain that, yes, Deme did some good things, but she wasn't on the floor because she beat anyone out. She was on the floor because there literally wasn't anyone else, and Kriskova and Bates would be big upgrades in almost every area of the game. Several of you were suggesting that Deme would start over Kriskova, too. So first you say you don't remember this, then you say you do remember it, but everyone else was wrong. That is called moving the goalposts. I'm fine with anyone contributing to our understanding of the players' merits. I'm not so fine with self-aggrandisement clothed as insight. I also don't see how it was not legitimate to debate the relative merits of an incoming regular, a freshman we've barely seen if at all, and a transfer with great stats but who is new to the B1G. And I remember it, there was a general consensus that Kriskova would be an improvement over Deme, but people wanted to see how she would do against the B1G ladies. And do you have some problem with Deme? She was definitely an important part of the team in 2013 and played in the title match - pretty well I might add. This year, I don't see why Duello can't develop in a similar way that Bates did. Sheff wouldn't have recruited her if he didn't think she was capable of that. And Kriskova could play left side if someone else takes the RS by the scruff of the neck (Saunders, Fricano). Then Bates has competition for a starting place. Is that a likely scenario? I don't think so -- her ball handling is too important. But there is no use simply assuming it can't happen. Sheff will not set up the team in a fashion that any position is guaranteed to a player. That is Rainbow's simple point. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Mar 16, 2015 13:08:47 GMT -5
For the record, the only thing I was curious about is what Kriskova could do with a huge upgrade at setter, while hitting against a B1G block. And can you please stop talking about being "educated" about recruits as if they were library books that could be checked out, and the rest of us simply didn't do the reading? Most of us are unable to spend our spare time traveling to club tournaments. While I trust Sheff's judgement of recruits, I don't think it's unreasonable to be skeptical of prep players until they are proven against college-level competition. Fair, but you're being skeptical of prep players that you haven't seen. That's the only thing that's weird to me. Better to be skeptical of a prep player you've never seen than over-the-top in praise of. |
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Post by vbprisoner on Mar 16, 2015 13:11:55 GMT -5
Height does matter when you play against teams like Penn State, Nebraska, Illinois and teams that have same athleticism, and the ability to make plays. Having a 6'1" or 6'2" verses a 5'10" player is a challenge if that player is going to be a go to player. I know Carlini is deceptive and can get her 1 on 1 attacks, but when front row skills are equal I would prefer the 6'2" player. Front row skills is not necessarily the same as height. She's not competing against PSU or Nebraska's outsides, she's competing against the pool at Wisconsin and her front row skills are as developed or better. And you also forget that these individuals play within a team. Wisconsin needs somebody who can both pass and hit - not for every front row position - but they need at least one. Right now, there's no one close to her in that particular role. I should have been specific in stating RS for the teams mentioned. My original point was last year she was not relied on every match as the go to hitter with the seniors in place and a distributed attack.
This year she may be relied upon a lot more and we will see how an athletic 5'10" OH does in the B1G when opponents focus on her. I did not say she would not be as successful, just it will be more challenging.
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