the future

[Stop whining]

You complainers of Lewis have such a short memory. the same arguement was made of Hawaii last year who won with players (men) of 24-26 on the floor.

Get over it. I hate Lewis too.....they do very little for American Collegiate athletes but they CAN DO IT!

BYU is not so "innocent" either.

They have a fantastic team with unbelievable talent and are playing our sport at avery high level.

But the comments that I have been reading is LOSER talk and any coach or athlete with common sense see this.

This is the year of the MIVA, you may not like it but it is undeniable.

This was a great Final 4 with the 4 best teams in the nation competing!

[tigfan]

Agree that everyone should stop whining...I'm working on that myself... but you can't honestly have convinced yourself that the Final 4 was the 4 best teams in the country...

[My 2 Sense]

I'm an objective fan of the game with no personal affiliations, just fan attending the games. It is NOT a comfortable feeling standing before the matches during the introductions at anticipation of a well played, important playoff match for the sport of American college volleyball when multiple foreigners are introduced as the players. It was actually shocking to stand hearing the home countries (not home towns) of the BYU starting players the other night at Pepperdine in the MPSF finals. "Now introducing... from Rio de Janero, Brazil", another "from Rio de Janero, Brazil", "from Puerto Rico", and then the big off the bench player, "from Slovenia." And then learning that the Lewis players, "from Mexico City, Mexico", "from Puerto Rico", "from Puerto Rico." then learning that the setter is 27 years old.

All the schools that are benefiting from such a concentration of foreign and older players find no problem with scouring the world for players to bring into their programs. They point out that the good American players are difficult to recruit so in order to stay competitive they have to go outside the States in order to field competitive teams.

It isn't whining to wonder why our American universities are educating non-U.S. players and taking up the limited number of available scholarships for U.S. kids. It's philosophically important to wonder about how it became more important to win at this cost than it is for our institutions of higher learning to put a higher priority on winning like this than it is to use our educational resources to educate our American kids. Comments like "get over it" and such are condescending denials that put winning over all other issues, and don't make sense to me, and obviously to many others.

I would say the better solution to the parity issue to enable the Lewis' of the world to be competitive is for volleyball lovers to get the NCAA to improve the conditions that would enable them to attract quality players, namely more "full" schollarships," and more playing slots. But that would take too much time and effort. It is the "long term" solution in a "short solution" world.

I'm entitled to my opinion. If you want to express something your invited to be civil about it.

[IdahoBoy]

Guest-My said:

I'm an objective fan of the game with no personal affiliations, just fan attending the games. It is NOT a comfortable feeling standing before the matches during the introductions at anticipation of a well played, important playoff match for the sport of American college volleyball when multiple foreigners are introduced as the players. It was actually shocking to stand hearing the home countries (not home towns) of the BYU starting players the other night at Pepperdine in the MPSF finals. "Now introducing... from Rio de Janero, Brazil", another "from Rio de Janero, Brazil", "from Puerto Rico", and then the big off the bench player, "from Slovenia." And then learning that the Lewis players, "from Mexico City, Mexico", "from Puerto Rico", "from Puerto Rico." then learning that the setter is 27 years old.

All the schools that are benefiting from such a concentration of foreign and older players find no problem with scouring the world for players to bring into their programs. They point out that the good American players are difficult to recruit so in order to stay competitive they have to go outside the States in order to field competitive teams.

It isn't whining to wonder why our American universities are educating non-U.S. players and taking up the limited number of available scholarships for U.S. kids. It's philosophically important to wonder about how it became more important to win at this cost than it is for our institutions of higher learning to put a higher priority on winning like this than it is to use our educational resources to educate our American kids. Comments like "get over it" and such are condescending denials that put winning over all other issues, and don't make sense to me, and obviously to many others.

I would say the better solution to the parity issue to enable the Lewis' of the world to be competitive is for volleyball lovers to get the NCAA to improve the conditions that would enable them to attract quality players, namely more "full" schollarships," and more playing slots. But that would take too much time and effort. It is the "long term" solution in a "short solution" world.

I'm entitled to my opinion. If you want to express something your invited to be civil about it.

Please take this as civil, as is its intent:

If the world is changing towards a "world economy" as I recall being taught in high-school and some in college and see on the news when the world isn't pissed at us, then would the practice of bringing in foreign players be considered "forward acting" in contributing to the "world society?"

I understand your point My2sense, and find myself agreeing on some points, but taking a step back, this question arose in my head and now I'm feeling a little guilty about it.

Perhaps this could be an arrangement: If the US schools stopped bringing in foreign players that were over a certain age (say 22), would that make it easier to accept seeing foreigners on team rosters?

Is it more an issue of nationality or age? I still haven't put my finger on that one.

[the future]

My goal was not to sound condescending. Sorry

In 1981 or so the Rutgers team had an amazing team. I think they lost to Karch's team in the Finals? All except one guy was not a foreigner. Guys like Karl Pierre, Jefferson Williams, Tatszua (amazing Japanese setter, and a 50" jumper named Gui. Haitian and Dominicans....remnants of the Creole teams that were impressive at Adult Nationals. They had Polish and French Coaches.
All were very intelligent players (world-Class) who came to Rutgers for their engineering programs and to play V-ball. We all know that Newark was not the best place to live. (Thankfully we have a guy like Sean Byron reviving that program!)
Yes they went over to France and Italy to play for a while but as far as I know they always gave back to volleyball (in this country and abroad) are still involved in the sport and raised the level of play nation wide.

They also inspired me as I had never seen people play the sport as they had.

When I was in high school I never looked at them as black, oriental.....ie foriegners . Never thought of their age.

They were exceptionally skilled and ready to play immediately. Maybe guys like Barretto,Meyer, Paal etc. are reaching some basketball/volleyball HS player in the USA and that kid is saying WOW I'm going to do that and be there someday.

********
Point being this action has been going on for a long time and still does (Queens College, defunct Concordia, Lewis....ah heck most colleges now.
******

We live in a global world.....and compete globally now for EVERYTHING.

This means our boys need to wake up and meet the challenge ...ACADEMICALLY....ATHLETICALLY. They are not.

These foreigners are very motivated and willing to take risks....(not always older)

I'm not sure if many of you have been around US HS athletes of today but things are very different. They expect to have things handed to them, expect to have college coaches calling them every night, are apathetic students are not willing to play sports unless they "Start". Commitment is questionable and have way too many options/pulling them in directions.

Colleges coaches today DO NOT WANT TO DEVELOP PLAYERS! They feel they don't have the time or resources maybe?

Talk with your club and HS coaches about male athletes of today. Get their impressions.


But with that being said I have not given up....nor do think things can't change. I fight daily to develop players in the classroom , on the court and in their hearts!

I will fight for my kids and I will teach them what it is going to take to make it....or at least get that chance.....but I also know what we are facing. IT KILLS ME! I get very frustrated that colleges are underfunded, have sub-par programs and coaches, have D-I coaches who have to coach Womens programs too.
And yes Now that I am trying to place players and I see their or "our"spots being taken.....I got frustrated.

But I and we all have to "DEAL WITH IT" and move on.

The game is changing and I guess I have to also

[Manoavb]

If a small Catholic school like Lewis could not recruit foreign players where would they be? Men's volleyball will not continue as an NCAA sport if we cannot get beyond California players playing on California teams-- the sport hangs on by the skin of its teeth. Sports are growing around the world and are becoming international-- more than half of the major league baseball players are from overseas and we will soon approach this in basketball-- this adds to fan interest and interest in the sport.

[thegame]

Ask any college coach about the state of men's vb at the junior level. The level of athleticism has dropped tremendously from just the class of 2000. There is no comparison between the 2000 YNT and last years YNT.
At the HPC at Kent State last summer, there was only one kid who touched 11'0". And a bunch of those kids are going to play somewhere. That kind of athleticism isn't going to cut it.Sure, there are still some very athletic kids playing, but not nearly as many as there were 3-4 years ago. That is why you see the foreign players. There really isn't enough talent to go around. Now, there are some nice, big athletes playing in the younger age divisions right now, so we should see less emphasis on foreign recruiting in a couple years. You also have to take into account that, since scholarships are so scarce, coaches are looking to make sound investments. Foreign players come here for 2 things...school and volleyball. They don't care about partying, girlfriends, etc. They are usually more mature. I hate to say it, but our best domestic players at the jo come off as prima donnas. They don't want to be pushed, are easily distracted, not as focused. Most of the good players don't want to go to the midwest or cold-climate schools, even if you put a full-ride together for them.

I see the emphasis on foreign players going in cycles. If USA VB can continue to attract quality athletes at the younger age groups, we will see more US athletes competing in the finals. Until then, be thankful we have the foreign athletes to maintain a high level of play for our younger athletes to aspire to.

[My 2 Sense]

First, just got back from the packed Pyramid. Congrats to Lewis who is a deserving champion.

I like this debate. It brings out a lot of good points. Volleyball is a more popular sport in other countries. Their children grow up playing it at a very early age, while U.S. kids are introduced to baseball, basketball, soccer, football, and now roller hockey often before even knowing what a volleyball is. They know the fundamentals well beore they get to high school, while many of our U.S. kids are just getting introduced to the sport. So they have a tramendous head start.

I see a better movement going on in the club scene to introduce volleyball to younger players, at say 10 to 12, but by then they're into all those other sports.

We need to develop players younger. It's a great sport, and most of the people in it are great people too. (with minor exceptions.)

I'd like to limit foreign players and set a cap on ages. I think it's rediculous that late 20 year olds are playing in collge. How do they support themselves anyway.

Keep the comments coming.

[tigfan]

Men's volleyball IS hanging on by the skin of it's teeth in this country... so why should we give all the roster spots to foreign players? That doesn't HELP men's volleyball in this country In my opinion, that does nothing more than HURT it. If American kids can't play on American teams, they aren't going to play AT ALL....

...kids are going to shy away from junior volleyball if they see that there is a limited opportunity to play at the next level...

[vball710]

i don't think that kids shy away from playing at the junior level because of the number of spots taken by the foreign players. Instead, they have to work harder and try and get better to compete with them. There are also a large number of oppertunities other than the d1 level, such as d3, which is thriving out east, and club, which is pretty big too. People don't really consider many of these options when looking for a school to play at.

[Manoavb]

If small Midwestern teams have more success and draw some fan interests, maybe more schools would take up men's VB instead of dropping it. Lewis and that team from Fort Wayne (I think), got some interest in High School and club volleyball in the Midwest. We have learned a lot from the foreign players-- a lot like soccer developed in the US. This will also make our national team better-- by providing better quality competition in tournaments, games and practices. Take away foreign players and we will have California club teams playing eachother and no Division I.

[Rochester]

Acouple of years ago a Pace JR 18's team pushed into the finals against LAAC. Two of the players on the Pace team were from Toronto. Although both played junior ball in Canada they tranfered in June to the USVBA. Both were superior athletes and certainly helped in the success of that team. Both went onto play in the USA (PSU and IPFW). They did add tot he level of competition, elevated the play of the players around them....but did replace a player who had been with the team for 5 months prior.

The USVBA consequently has passed a law to make players no able to jump clubs from another region and more difficult to jump clubs within the region....(somehow the california club get away with this as they are much different from Jan then in June)

My point - there are plus and minuses of allowing foreigners. I believe their are more positives.

Our boys need to rise up to the challenge. Junior programs need to start much earlier (the puerto Ricans do!) and we need dedicated coach like "the future" said who will meet this challenge.

But we also have to have college coaches recognize this effort and help us!
I look at all these day camps around the area and nation that are popping up. Poor quality, no instruction and not enough repetition. I remember John Kessel told me that when he walks into a camp early in the week he would hold a folder up blocking his eye vision of the court and count how many volleyballs he saw in motion. In a gym of 3 courts he expected to see 6-12 balls going.

All I see are triples, wash drills and play....while coaches and most of them are college kids (who are not coaches and rarely should be left in charge of courts) sitting down blabbing a few words of nothing!

WE have the athletes and big kids to do it
BUT
When I go to Nationals I am appalled at poor habits, poor technique, kids who are still goofy footed, setters who can't dump, OH who can't swing inside out, THE LIST GOES ON!
There are some programs who are doing the right things. On the East Coast just a few.....not enough.....and in reality not enough nation wide.

On a HS level AD's demand and support their FOOTBALL, BASEBALL, and BASKETBALL coaches go to seminars and clinics and TEACH!. That is the way it should be for every sport...sadly not.


What I suggest is that we get MORE of the elite younger players throughout the nation and bring them together for intense overnight camps and immerse them into the sport. Bring the cost down to a more reasonable price.

I am well aware of the HP programs....but they are 20 kids with a few other lower camps (cost is high!) and they do not start early enough.

Some good points are being made.

[NET2]

The recruitment of international players by US colleges is not limited to men's volleyball.

Taking a broader view, many colleges have had success with international student athletes in several sports - both men & women. Examples: soccer, cross country, swimming, tennis, track & field, plus women's basketball & volleyball.

Many colleges & universities have elaborate international student recruitment programs today, & not just for athletes. Also, we need to recognize from an international student's point of view, coming to the US for college & to play a sport offers many pluses: education, employment opportunities, improved health care, good quality competition, etc.

I look for this trend to continue.

[My 2 Sense]

Here in So. Cal being on a club team means your parents are going to spend mightily for the privilege of having you on the team. It has become a game of the have's vs. the have nots.

You can put a young child into Little League baseball for very small fees like $100 plus a glove and shoes. Or you can put him into a club volleyball team for $1,000 to $3,500.

There need to be more inexpensive entry points for boy's volleyball. A young male needs to be able to play the sport without his parents being faced with major club fees. YMCA's, local parks and recreation, and more grammar schools need to offer the sport. (What are the equipment manufacturers doing to help this, by the way?) And most of all, high schools need to offer the sport nationwide. It is a perfect sport for a kid who to play in the spring if you're not a baseball or track athlete. And if you're cut from basketball and don't have another alternative. There are many talented kids who are cut from a sport and don't have another team to play on. (It's a starting point where none may exist now.)

The traditional athletic routes in this country are baseball, basketball, football, soccer... etc. Volleyball isn't even where soccer was 12 years ago, and look where it is now. It will take years and a lot of energy to get it to a popular state here.

I do subscribe to the notion that in general, volleyball is not a respected sport amongst the hard-core sports fan in this country. Most would rather have their kids play one of the other major sports and excel in it, thus the elite level athletes go those paths first. If they're lucky enough to be exposed to volleyball and then like it, they may dislodge from the other sports and become passionate about volleyball. Imagine this sport if the elite basketball players had chosen it over basketball. But the cost of a pair of basketball shoes and a $65 fee to play youth ball at the local YMCA at age 6 is so much more attractive than the unreasonable vb club fees.

Volleyball will take a long time to catch on in a big way here in the U.S. for the boys. The girls are there now. But volleyball is considered a sissy sport at the younger ages to those who are not exposed to it. Just the plain truth. There are exceptions of course. If you play beach at a young age it's considered cool. And certain communities especially here in So. Cal have embraced VB, like Manhattan Beach, Huntington Beach, Newport, and Long Beach.

Europeans and So. Americans are exposed to volleyball at very early ages. It is the dominant sport in some of those countries. Volleyballs are put into their cradles, and they grow up playing it as their major sport.

I do subscribe to the notion that some people don't pursue a volleyball career because there are so few opportunities for college slots and pro opportunities. Then if you want to coach, the money is very low. A lot of the good coaches coach girls because their parents will pay dearly for club fees, thus there are better financial incentives. There are over 300 D-1 women's vb programs. If you're athletic and can play decently, you're ARE going to get a free education somewhere in America, especially if you don't mind going to a second tier school. You may not get your first choice, but you can get a free education without having to be a super star in the sport. The parents know this and encourage their girls to play. And they see the club fees as an investment toward a major discount on college tuition.

With only 4.5 men’s scholarships and most players lucky to get a small fraction such as 25% or for some just books, the majority of parents of a highly talented multi-sport male athlete are going to encourage say a basketball career over a volleyball career. This is why I believe the volleyball community has to get the NCAA to allow more than 4.5 scholarships for men's vb. 8 would be a the number I’d like to see. Or at least 6.5. When faced with the ever-increasing cost of education a parent who is not wealthy and is facing the pressures of getting their kids through college will just naturally gravitate to the paths that provide the most opportunities. We need more opportunities in this country for men's vb.

[the future]

You cannot imagine what I pay for my girls to take dance and go to competition.....or my friends to have their sons play hockey.....this all pales in comparation to what parents pay for Boys to play Club V-Ball and we are a club that does significant travelling as compared to what the Cali clubs have to do.

I find that in general parents of girls are much more apt to pay for girls involvement in activities as awhole anyway....but that is another subject.

To compare Rec league baseball to club volleyball is not really just. Club v-ball is for the development of elite players......a good comparsion is High level travel soccer.

Waht soccer has and is developing is a great Pyramid of upper level competition and division down to a multitude of town leagues.

WE do not have this.

I agree the sport is WAY WAY underexposed and therefore we don't get to kids in the US until they are sophomore in HS. This has become too late and the product is not meeting the demand....even with 25 DI schools.

This has to be a grass roots approach with committment and for communities to be sold on it. It is a difficult but not impossible sport to bring to 3rd and 4th graders. Soccer and basketball are easy as they are goal oriented sports and they get so much exposure to the sport and have many opportunites to get a "vision" of the sport.

We need money and people to step up to make this happen. I have started for this past January to May bringing in 10 and under girls and boys to expose them to the sport. The drills and repetitions are fun enough.....amazing who focused they are in the simplest things. Blah Blah I believe this is a step
and then we can make it more economically feasible for those who can afford the club $$. (I do understand this point....but I also see what other sports are demanding too.

75 no humidity ---birthday party for my son...CheerS!