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Post by volleyballjim on Apr 15, 2015 14:42:11 GMT -5
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Post by haze on Apr 15, 2015 15:33:46 GMT -5
Funny to listen to the old pros rant about how it's such a terrible model and how the tour has no culture or vibrancy to it - makes me wonder if Professional Volleyball is really going to last here in the US as they don't think it will
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Post by volleyballjim on Apr 15, 2015 20:56:45 GMT -5
It is quite impossible for there to be NO WAY to make money on beach volleyball. There are too many alternative sports that do and the AVP is very early in their metamorphosis. Too few events this year? Well, unless you know the actual problem they face, and I don't that has been clear yet, you cannot evaluate different solutions Donald Sun is doing. Just the idea of ramping UP to the Olympics sounds like an interesting strategy (rather than what appeared in the past being a "coattail marketing approach AFTER", seems encouraging. Slow growth, I'm not so sure that doesn't work. Find any business, and outside of the internet, very few "overnight sensations"...
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Post by guest2 on Apr 16, 2015 1:25:30 GMT -5
Wow. That is depressing. Waiting for the Olympics is a stupid strategy for about 50 different reasons. To start with what if American teams do badly? Then where is the bump in interest you have been waiting 4 years for. Anyone remember the Dan or Dave campaign Reebok lost tens of millions on when the two decathletes involved %*$# the bed at the Olympics?
Second it entails working with the FIVB which I can only presume means continuing the "two weeks in spring six weeks in fall" schedule that works so effectively to take advantage of the natural association of bvb and the summer. Say you were one of the AVP's natural sponsors (like sunscreen) would you want your commercial to air during a July 4 weekend Manhattan beach tournament? Or in mid-October?
This year the AVP was able to schedule largely in the summer because of an advantageous FIVB schedule. What happens when that changes?
Here is a fun thought experiment, who would you rather compete with for viewers, etc. the FIVB or the NFL? Because thats who the AVP has to compete with as long as they schedule their tournaments in October every year.
The Olympics generates a fleeting spike in interest for all sports in it. And after the Olympics they are all trying to capitalize. The gymnasts go on tours of the country to show off their medals, the track guys desperately hope this is the year someone continues to notice them, etc. As Sun recognizes the US always does well, but what he fails to say is it never means much. The Olympics are a good tool, but making them the only or prime strategy is dumb. What if the FIVB schedules events in the three weeks after the Olympics? What if the top players want to rest?
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Post by unrated on Apr 16, 2015 10:55:57 GMT -5
I don't think they're 'waiting' for the Olympics. The run-up starts this year, and they are taking advantage of it (see also: NBC televising AVP).
Looks like Kerri-n-April are on the Today show this morning. This is also part of the run-up to Rio, and helps the AVP.
As you mentioned, the time you have to capitalize after the olympics is pretty short... on the order of 3 months. The time you have to capitalize and build before the games is... 15 months.
The FIVB and Olympics have a major impact on the public visibility of the sport. You can either work with them and synergize, or ignore them.
Ignoring them doesn't seem viable or feasible.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 16, 2015 14:08:14 GMT -5
I don't think they're 'waiting' for the Olympics. The run-up starts this year, and they are taking advantage of it (see also: NBC televising AVP). Looks like Kerri-n-April are on the Today show this morning. This is also part of the run-up to Rio, and helps the AVP. As you mentioned, the time you have to capitalize after the olympics is pretty short... on the order of 3 months. The time you have to capitalize and build before the games is... 15 months. The FIVB and Olympics have a major impact on the public visibility of the sport. You can either work with them and synergize, or ignore them. Ignoring them doesn't seem viable or feasible. Kerri and April are on the Today show on April 16. The AVP's first tournament is a full month away. What exactly are they accomplishing? Promoting the Fuzhou tourney? |
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Post by unrated on Apr 16, 2015 19:44:51 GMT -5
I don't think they're 'waiting' for the Olympics. The run-up starts this year, and they are taking advantage of it (see also: NBC televising AVP). Looks like Kerri-n-April are on the Today show this morning. This is also part of the run-up to Rio, and helps the AVP. As you mentioned, the time you have to capitalize after the olympics is pretty short... on the order of 3 months. The time you have to capitalize and build before the games is... 15 months. The FIVB and Olympics have a major impact on the public visibility of the sport. You can either work with them and synergize, or ignore them. Ignoring them doesn't seem viable or feasible. Kerri and April are on the Today show on April 16. The AVP's first tournament is a full month away. What exactly are they accomplishing? Promoting the Fuzhou tourney? They are accomplishing more than they would by ignoring the invite and staying home. |
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Post by guest2 on Apr 17, 2015 4:27:19 GMT -5
Kerri and April are on the Today show on April 16. The AVP's first tournament is a full month away. What exactly are they accomplishing? Promoting the Fuzhou tourney? They are accomplishing more than they would by ignoring the invite and staying home. If you assume the Today show just randomly called and said "Would you be on" then sure, although how much more than staying home is open to debate. If you instead assume it was arranged in part by Kerri/April's publicity people or the AVP's then its a mistake. Also the problem with working with the FIVB is twofold: 1. There are around 16-20 good dates for pro beach events in the US. "Synergizing" with the FIVB takes away more than half of those every year. 2. Some of the best sites for beach events need to be arranged a long time in advance. With the AVP having to work around the FIVB schedule every year, that becomes a problem, as does scheduling the same sites on the same weekends, year after year. The point of a "tour" is to continuously build excitement for the product. How the AVP will do that on a Spring/Fall schedule is beyond me. The model that works, and has, is a tournament almost every week from May to the end of August. Trying to avoid competing against the FIVB, which has zero presence in the US media market, is leading the AVP to compete instead against the NBA playoff and the NFL. Gosh I wonder which one of those is a bigger obstacle. The run of August tournaments the past few years has been a good step, but they need to run June and July as well. No one under 45 watches baseball anymore which means that the sports market in summer is wide open. The AVP needs to take advantage and refusing to do so because of one tournament a year away is short sighted and stupid. |
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Post by unrated on Apr 17, 2015 14:27:14 GMT -5
NBC would also want Kerri/April on the Today show close to an AVP event, since they are televising them. So, either they'll be on again closer to a tourdate, or everyone involved is stupid, or there were other factors involved.
Figure the AVP negotiates with cities from October through March, so the schedule decisions were made back then. I'd guess last october the avp decided not to challenge the FIVB schedule in an olympic qualifying year. That seems like a logical rational decision to me. Same with next year, as the qualifications and games will overshadow the avp events. 2017 is when you decide about challenging the fivb in both the scheduling and the olympic qualification process venues.
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Post by klazk on Apr 17, 2015 16:08:18 GMT -5
Could be purely coincidental, but I watched a lot of NBC on-demand yesterday and there was a surprising amount of promotion for the 2016 Rio games. Like 2 ads during every 30-minute on-demand show. So the April/Kerri interview could have something to do with the start of Olympic promotion. Seems really early, but they are doing it for some reason.
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Post by volleyballjim on Apr 17, 2015 16:09:59 GMT -5
When I "came on the scene" of pro beach VB as a fan in '05, I didn't even KNOW about the FIVB much for quite a while. Correct me if I was wrong, but THEY (the AVP) were the 800lb gorilla in the room. Now the roles are reversed for obvious reasons. Until they climb back to the top, yes, that is possible, they will experience slower growth.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 17, 2015 18:08:07 GMT -5
NBC would also want Kerri/April on the Today show close to an AVP event, since they are televising them. So, either they'll be on again closer to a tourdate, or everyone involved is stupid, or there were other factors involved. Figure the AVP negotiates with cities from October through March, so the schedule decisions were made back then. I'd guess last october the avp decided not to challenge the FIVB schedule in an olympic qualifying year. That seems like a logical rational decision to me. Same with next year, as the qualifications and games will overshadow the avp events. 2017 is when you decide about challenging the fivb in both the scheduling and the olympic qualification process venues. This is the logic that doesnt make sense to me. "The qualifications will overshadow AVP events." How? The FIVB gets 0 attention in the US outside of extremely hardcore fans who would not miss either. When was the last time a non-US FIVB event was available stateside on anything but crummy illegal internet streaming? What the FIVB and AVP are actually competing for is players, not fan attention. US fans could care less about the FIVB, what they do care about is whether Kerri Walsh is going to be at the event in their town and maybe 2-4 other players. (but mostly Kerri) AVP players will and have skipped FIVB events for AVP ones in a qualifying year. In 2007, Misty-Kerri played 8 FIVB events. Phil and Todd played 6 By comparison Emmanuel and Ricardo played 15 that year and Renata and Talita played 16. Why did K/M and P/T stay home? Because there was a robust domestic tour. Kerri Walsh shouldnt be earning prize money, she should be on salary. Rather than making a combined $200k from FIVB and the AVP (as she did last year), Donald Sun should guarantee her 300K to play in all 15 AVP tournaments he schedules (but only 300K) let her play FIVB events that dont conflict (which means she could make around 50k extra) and have her do a ton of promotion etc. How is that not a much smarter model than the current bend over backwards to accommodate an organization that wont do business and from whom you get nothing? Here is an example to illustrate exactly how stupid the AVP's dependence on the Olympics is. Three weeks before the Olympics a 38 year old Kerri Walsh tears her ACL. The FIVB allows April to pick a sub and she and Summer Ross finish 7th, the highest finish for a US women's team. Phil and Sean win the bronze. No other American team medals. That scenario is not out of the realm of possibility. Neither is Kerri/April finishing 5th or 9th, which they did a combined 6 times last year. In either case the attention the AVP and beach volleyball in America get froom the Olympics is minimal and Donald Sun has wasted two years for nothing. Oh and that doesnt even consider the question fo what happens if Kerri Walsh retires after Rio. Its a dumb strategy that has not worked in the past and gives up a ton right now (June, July and scheduling flexibility) in exchange for very little. So we know that AVP players dont have to play FIVB every week. |
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Post by johnbar on Apr 17, 2015 18:49:41 GMT -5
Not sure what was intended, but for the top players, Olympic qualification does overshadow the AVP.
The Olympics has certainly been a double-edged sword. It has brought a huge increase in the visibility of beach VB. But the fact that the top players are going to want to qualify for the Olympics, and that means playing on the FIVB, has been very bad for the domestic tour (AVP). Either you schedule around the FIVB, and you are missing the prime season, or you schedule opposite the FIVB and have to explain to the fans and the media why the top players aren't at your event.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 17, 2015 21:10:40 GMT -5
It hasn't brought a huge increase in the US. It has brought a marginal increase in years the US players won.
The idea that players will always play FIVB if given the choice is simply wrong. In the last qualifying cycle where there were options,(2007-2008) the top American players generally opted to play AVP whenever possible. If there is equal money at home, players will only go abroad as often as they need to.
But in terms of explaining to the fans and media why top players are missing, I dont think the media cares. Sponsors and fans will care about the top 2-3 players, but the AVP can work that out to get those players at the maximum number of tournaments, and those teams are going to qualify anyway.
Again I think fans will come for the event and for Walsh, maybe a few more for Phil, but thats about it. You market the event.
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Post by downtheline on Apr 17, 2015 23:44:50 GMT -5
What other sport bets the whole promotion on an aging athlete. Granted 3 gold's puts her in rare air, but there has to be a plan "b" or what's next.
NBC didn't help much by asking about Misty, I'm sure that's a tired subject for her to answer and didn't really help make April feel to welcome.
It was not a great TV moment for the athletes or the AVP, imho.
The AVP may have another 800 lb gorilla that they are going to have to compete against in RedBull. Word is the FIVB is going to let them join in the fun and co-market tour stops in the very near future.
Redbull is all about the "next gen" athletes and plays in a whole other demographic than where the AVP seems to be swimming in. Plus they have more money than any other sports marketing organization.
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