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Post by vballer1990 on Apr 29, 2015 21:46:23 GMT -5
Sorry witch-hunters... time to move on. Lewis is #1 and they EARNED it. I think you're misinterpreting motives. This isn't a witch hunt, and if you've noticed, Lewis isn't even the topic of conversation. There have been some good informative posts in this thread, regarding both the NCAA rules and definitions, as well as bringing up current NCAA players who have previously competed and/or are on PVL rosters. That's a lot more helpful then saying stuff like, "Bottom line: the PVL is not a professional league, regardless of what is posted on their website ", as if it's an undisputed fact. I'm sorry you don't like the thread, but that doesn't invalidate it. Pretty sure the first post is specifically about lewis. While it has turned into a general debate about it I think a reasonable individual would assume that the first post was a specific call out on lewis IMO.
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Post by Cubicle No More ... on Apr 30, 2015 14:02:30 GMT -5
If the NCAA had a problem with it they wouldn't allow collegiate athletes on the World League rosters... travel is paid for, hotel is paid for, money is only given to the team if they win, governing body is USAV... exact same as PVL. as i understand it, the 'amateurism' requirements of the ncaa have a specific exception that would allow student athletes to compete while representing their national teams, even if the competition were for prize money. the student just would not be allowed to accept any monies/benefits, other than actual/necessary expenses. NCAA Bylaw 12.2.3.2.4 Exception—Olympic/National Teams. "It is permissible for an individual (prospective student-athlete or student-athletes) to participate on Olympic or national teams that are competing for prize money or are being compensated by the governing body to participate in a specific event, provided the student-athlete does not accept prize money or any other compensation (other than actual and necessary expenses). (Adopted: 8/8/02)" Here's a link to the 2009 bylaws. There's probably a more updated version, butthe gist of the rule likely remains the same: www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D110.pdf just as an update to this ... found the 2014-2015 ncaa DI manual: www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D115OCT.pdf
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 14:27:15 GMT -5
Well this will help with the Loyola, Stanford, BYU, Long Beach, USC, Grand Canyon, UCLA, Penn State, etc. athletes who committed to play before the end of the 2014 season. Plus the BYU, OSU, IPFW, and PSU for this year.
Blah, Blah, Blah.......
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Post by preschooler on Apr 30, 2015 14:59:21 GMT -5
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Post by caavb on May 15, 2015 10:36:06 GMT -5
While I don't necessarily agree with the rule: (12.02.10 Professional Athletics Team. A professional team is any organized team that: (Revised: 4/25/02
(a) Provides any of its players more than actual and necessary expenses for participation on the team, except as otherwise permitted by NCAA legislation. Actual and necessary expenses are limited to the items listed in Bylaw 12.02.2, provided the value of the items is commensurate with the fair market value in the locality of the player(s) and is not excessive in nature; or (b) Declares itself to be professional (see Bylaw 12.2.3.2.4).
And the follow-up rule: 12.1.2 Amateur Status. An individual loses amateur status and thus shall not be eligible for intercollegiate competition in a particular sport if the individual: (Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/02, 4/24/03 effective 8/1/03, 4/29/10 effective 8/1/10)
(e) Competes on any professional athletics team per Bylaw 12.02.10, even if no pay or remuneration for expenses was received, except as permitted in Bylaw 12.2.3.2.1;
Knowing that the PVL teams (even the team that wins that championship) are not really making any money but most (if not all) do declare themselves a professional team. I am curious if current college kids can play on a team. I heard of 2 current college juniors seeking a waiver to play on a PVL team this May. Does anyone know if they grant those waivers?
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5foot4
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5 foot 4 inch libero. Small for the guys game but I got heart!
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Post by 5foot4 on May 15, 2015 13:02:37 GMT -5
I don't know all the rules, but have any of these Lewis guys actually participated in the PVL? Is the PVL really a professional league in the eyes of the NCAA? To me, its just a bunch of USAV members playing in an organized league of their own (despite having pro experience somewhere outside of USAV). Again, I don't know all the rules. Look at the collegians who have been on rosters for the US before graduation. Micah, James Shaw, Michael Brinkley, etc. Granted, it wasn't the PVL but other sanctioned USAV events. On a complete side note, last time I checked, it's funny (in a purely harmless way) that Dave Deuser is the PVL head coach for the Great Lakes region. Unfortunately, as good a coach as Deuser is, he is equally as dirty as they come. Anything he is involved with needs to be looked at based on his history of cheating at Lewis , openly ignoring his AD , and then saying well I don't like the ncaa's rules so I quit.
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Post by volleyball11 on May 15, 2015 13:40:14 GMT -5
I don't know all the rules, but have any of these Lewis guys actually participated in the PVL? Is the PVL really a professional league in the eyes of the NCAA? To me, its just a bunch of USAV members playing in an organized league of their own (despite having pro experience somewhere outside of USAV). Again, I don't know all the rules. Look at the collegians who have been on rosters for the US before graduation. Micah, James Shaw, Michael Brinkley, etc. Granted, it wasn't the PVL but other sanctioned USAV events. On a complete side note, last time I checked, it's funny (in a purely harmless way) that Dave Deuser is the PVL head coach for the Great Lakes region. Unfortunately, as good a coach as Deuser is, he is equally as dirty as they come. Anything he is involved with needs to be looked at based on his history of cheating at Lewis , openly ignoring his AD , and then saying well I don't like the ncaa's rules so I quit. Well, at least in his defense, that all happened 11 years ago. Since then, even though he hasn't coached college, he has had a pretty good track record through private lessons and coaching clubs. And if I heard correctly, the PVL team actually approached him to coach, so I don't think they are worried about him coaching "dirty" or not following any regulations.
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5foot4
Freshman
5 foot 4 inch libero. Small for the guys game but I got heart!
Posts: 58
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Post by 5foot4 on May 15, 2015 13:57:16 GMT -5
Unfortunately, as good a coach as Deuser is, he is equally as dirty as they come. Anything he is involved with needs to be looked at based on his history of cheating at Lewis , openly ignoring his AD , and then saying well I don't like the ncaa's rules so I quit. Well, at least in his defense, that all happened 11 years ago. Since then, even though he hasn't coached college, he has had a pretty good track record through private lessons and coaching clubs. And if I heard correctly, the PVL team actually approached him to coach, so I don't think they are worried about him coaching "dirty" or not following any regulations. Agreed, he is by all accounts an outstanding coach, no argument there. Just saying with him you need to peel the layers away to see what strings behind the scenes he's pulling and what lines hes trying to cross.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 9:16:22 GMT -5
Just saw this rule in the USAV Open Championship thread volleytalk.proboards.com/thread/58898/usav-open-championships?page=1&scrollTo=12972172.4.3 The PVL recommends that all participating athletes should have exhausted their collegiate eligibility prior to being added to a PVL roster and competing in a PVL hosted/recognized/sanctioned event, unless they did not attend college or have elected to voluntarily forfeit any remaining eligibility. It's just a recommendation from the operating code. To the original poster of this thread who supposedly saw Lewis players on a roster, it may have just been an oops moment by whoever runs that team's public roster, in my humble opinion.
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