goudey
Banned
"I sorta get away with things like that." —Donald Trump
Posts: 1,344
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Post by goudey on Aug 12, 2017 9:15:19 GMT -5
During the finals in Vienna, Kevin Wong stated that in the next few years there will be a time when Evandro will be the best defender on the FIVB Tour. My first thought was that Kevin had a mild heat stroke in the heat out there, and I don't think Evandro ever dug anything the entire match. But this led to another thought, first off the Brazillians just won the World Championships without Evandro having to dig anything. Now who is to say you can't trade 3 or 4 spectacular digs per match for two solid 6'-8"+ hitters that don't have to struggle with siding out around the other teams big guy? Most balls don't get dug anyways, so why bother? Get two big guys spiking the hell out of an opponent and let the short guy on the other team try to dig a couple of them to win the game.
Could Evandro playing defense be the beginning of the end for anyone under 6'-8" playing the beach volleyball game in any position?
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Post by rainmaker on Aug 12, 2017 9:20:33 GMT -5
I have been saying this since I saw the Dutch team last year. Get 2 guys that can hit from anywhere, serve tough.. It is the exception now, but the norm in 3-5 years, imo..
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Post by tamz on Aug 12, 2017 10:30:18 GMT -5
Let's not forget Evandro also served 7 aces in a single set!
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Post by haze on Aug 12, 2017 10:31:45 GMT -5
Ugh I hate where Beach Volleyball is heading. If this is where it's heading, gone are the days where actual ball skill mattered. USA will never compete with some of those countries. Teams defenders are going to be bigger than our blockers.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 12, 2017 11:42:18 GMT -5
During the finals in Vienna, Kevin Wong stated that in the next few years there will be a time when Evandro will be the best defender on the FIVB Tour. My first thought was that Kevin had a mild heat stroke in the heat out there, and I don't think Evandro ever dug anything the entire match. But this led to another thought, first off the Brazillians just won the World Championships without Evandro having to dig anything. Now who is to say you can't trade 3 or 4 spectacular digs per match for two solid 6'-8"+ hitters that don't have to struggle with siding out around the other teams big guy? Most balls don't get dug anyways, so why bother? Get two big guys spiking the hell out of an opponent and let the short guy on the other team try to dig a couple of them to win the game. Could Evandro playing defense be the beginning of the end for anyone under 6'-8" playing the beach volleyball game in any position? Its not 3-4 digs per match its more. That said only a singular determination not to improve has kept Evandro from being the best player in the world already. His blocking is Doherty esque in terms of being awful for his size, his hitting is average when you factor in his jump and swing. Watching him play makes you appreciate the skill of a player like Phil, who is similar but probably slightly inferior in physical talents, but not held back by laziness the way Evandro is. Evandro in the backcourt is just dumb. If he could get that jump serve in and get to the net, then improve his blocking to be close to what his physical talent dictates, he and Bruno would be impossible to beat. Instead he plays defense, wins once or twice a year, and has multiple events every year where he loses to lousy teams and goes home early. Compare him to Allison, a much less physically gifted player, who won twice as many events at Evandro's age because he is dedicated. Evandro is the evolutionary Ricci Luyties as far as I am concerned and if he ever wins 4 events in a season I would be surprised.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 12, 2017 11:44:03 GMT -5
Also Evandro's garbage defense only works because he has that incredible serve. The siding out is important but without that serve, they wouldn't get anywhere
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Post by haze on Aug 12, 2017 12:19:08 GMT -5
Now who is to say you can't trade 3 or 4 spectacular digs per match for two solid 6'-8"+ hitters that don't have to struggle with siding out around the other teams big guy? Most balls don't get dug anyways, so why bother? Get two big guys spiking the hell out of an opponent and let the short guy on the other team try to dig a couple of them to win the game. Just a playing philosphy, but IMO something needs to be said for those defenders that are constantly digging more balls up throughout the course of the match and making the other team take more swings, which may lead to more blocks/errors. I often see big hitters get frustrated even to the extent where they are becoming headcases when they aren't able to get the ball down as easily as they usually do.
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goudey
Banned
"I sorta get away with things like that." —Donald Trump
Posts: 1,344
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Post by goudey on Aug 12, 2017 18:56:02 GMT -5
"Watching him play makes you appreciate the skill of a player like Phil.."
Aren't Phil and Evandro pretty much the best servers in the world? So why was Phil doing that Ludwig serve in Vienna? WTF? It better have been because of some injury or something. Otherwise I can only throw my hands up in disbelief..
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Post by haze on Aug 12, 2017 19:04:18 GMT -5
"Watching him play makes you appreciate the skill of a player like Phil.." Aren't Phil and Evandro pretty much the best servers in the world? So why was Phil doing that Ludwig serve in Vienna? WTF? It better have been because of some injury or something. Otherwise I can only throw my hands up in disbelief.. I'm just going out on a limb, but I'm pretty sure the fact that Phil is 37 years old plays a big part of that. Evandro is nowhere near the dominant defender that phil is as a blocker. Not even a comparison.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 13, 2017 1:22:55 GMT -5
"Watching him play makes you appreciate the skill of a player like Phil.." Aren't Phil and Evandro pretty much the best servers in the world? So why was Phil doing that Ludwig serve in Vienna? WTF? It better have been because of some injury or something. Otherwise I can only throw my hands up in disbelief.. I'm just going out on a limb, but I'm pretty sure the fact that Phil is 37 years old plays a big part of that. Evandro is nowhere near the dominant defender that phil is as a blocker. Not even a comparison. Phil used to have a great serve but it has been super inconsistent for years now and I can't remember the last time I saw him use it to take over a game the way Evandro regularly does. Even at Phil's serving best, Evandro's was much better. The Phil comparison is apt because Evandro should be Phil. He has the physical tools to be just as good a blocker, his serve is better and his hitting is just as dynamic. He can also be a very good setter at times, although not Phil-esque. However his unwillingness to play what is clearly the best style for him (blocking) and his persistent mental weakness means he can channel Phil for a tourney or two, but will never be as good, despite being possibly physically superior. I'm not sure whether the idiotic idea of playing Evandro as a defender came from him or from the Brazilian federation but its just dumb and doubling down doesnt make it smarter.
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Post by iowasurfer on Aug 13, 2017 6:51:49 GMT -5
I'm just going out on a limb, but I'm pretty sure the fact that Phil is 37 years old plays a big part of that. Evandro is nowhere near the dominant defender that phil is as a blocker. Not even a comparison. Phil used to have a great serve but it has been super inconsistent for years now and I can't remember the last time I saw him use it to take over a game the way Evandro regularly does. Even at Phil's serving best, Evandro's was much better. The Phil comparison is apt because Evandro should be Phil. He has the physical tools to be just as good a blocker, his serve is better and his hitting is just as dynamic. He can also be a very good setter at times, although not Phil-esque. However his unwillingness to play what is clearly the best style for him (blocking) and his persistent mental weakness means he can channel Phil for a tourney or two, but will never be as good, despite being possibly physically superior. I'm not sure whether the idiotic idea of playing Evandro as a defender came from him or from the Brazilian federation but its just dumb and doubling down doesnt make it smarter. Interesting points.Must wait and see.Needs a handful of aces to for now.
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Post by ciscokeed on Aug 13, 2017 8:22:18 GMT -5
So should we be looking for a Doherty Delhauser pairing in the future!!
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Post by iowasurfer on Aug 13, 2017 8:55:50 GMT -5
So should we be looking for a Doherty Delhauser pairing in the future!! dBEST IDEA! ASK KARCH RICHARDO MISTY AND HOW ABOUT XI?SEVEN ACES THE FUTURE? OR?
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Post by swift on Aug 14, 2017 7:42:01 GMT -5
interesting topic. I've thought about this before when I first saw the two Dutch guys succeed. However it seems to me that having a good blocker and a good defender (who can side out) is still more effective than having two big hitters. Teams that serve/hit well but don't defend well tend to be more inconsistent than teams with good defense and overall good ball control.
If you look at the results this year, you will see that in most cases a team with a good defender won in the end. (Phil & NICK, Alison & BRUNO, Simon & ALVARO, Pedro & GUTO, Krasilnikov & LIAMIN).
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Post by ajm on Aug 14, 2017 9:43:29 GMT -5
interesting topic. I've thought about this before when I first saw the two Dutch guys succeed. However it seems to me that having a good blocker and a good defender (who can side out) is still more effective than having two big hitters. Teams that serve/hit well but don't defend well tend to be more inconsistent than teams with good defense and overall good ball control. If you look at the results this year, you will see that in most cases a team with a good defender won in the end. (Phil & NICK, Alison & BRUNO, Simon & ALVARO, Pedro & GUTO, Krasilnikov & LIAMIN). Is there any reason that the skills of blocking and defending are inherently more consistent than serving and hitting? It seems like a game dependent on transitions adds an element of luck with long out-of-system rallies. Maybe Evandro and Andre can raise their level of serving/hitting consistency. Even if they can't, wouldn't you rather have the upside of a high-risk, high-reward strategy, especially with so much parity in the men's game? I was thinking about this during the Vienna finals. In that 22-20 second set both teams were siding out so consistently that it would have been something like 2-1 under side out scoring. Even if Phil and Nick play their best, they are still not going to win every tournament. But it feels like when the younger two-bigs teams (Andre/Evandro, Brouwer/Meeuwsen, even the Cubans) are at their best, they are pretty much unstoppable. So I think it's a fair question to wonder whether this is the wave of the future.
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