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Post by alhorford90 on Jan 3, 2018 12:25:26 GMT -5
This is exactly what pushes people away from the left and hurts progressive movements. Just in this tread people have been called hateful, bigots, told their opinions are gross and abhorrent. All this just for having an opinion different that yours. So much for tolerance and love. None of us know anything about each other besides out love for volleyball and participation on this board. Those are pretty strong and I would say hateful words to use to compete strangers. I know it’s a different subject but these kinda actions are all but guaranteeing republican reelection in 2018 and 2020. I will be tolerant and welcoming of people's opinions up to the point where their opinions deny the humanity of others. Gotta love the fragility exposed here. Transwomen are three times as likely to be sexually assaulted and more than four as likely to be murdered as ciswomen, and the anti-trans folks here are complaining about name-calling. To piggyback Black transwomen have a life expectancy of <35 years. Misgendering is an act of violence. Your words contribute to actions that literally can and do cause the loss of life. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 3, 2018 21:02:21 GMT -5
That's generally called "playing the game according to the rules". If the rules change, then how you play the game changes too. You don't have to have a libero on your team. You can play without one and moan that it is unfair that other teams use one, because you don't like the libero rule. After all, it's completely unfair to 6-rotation middles who would otherwise have earned a spot on the team. Fair enough. I agree. But part of what is happening in this thread is that some people are having a difference of opinion on whether the rule is "fair" (whatever that means). The question that was posed was, in essence, "do you think the rule is fair?" To answer it with "that's the rule" really avoids the question (and is viewed by some as an attempt to shut down the discussion). My question was, in essence, "if the rule reversed, would you support the new rule?" We can have a thread on "what is the rule?" It will be a boring thread that can run its course in one or two posts. For good or bad, this thread had evolved into "do you think the rule is fair?" It's a different question, but some people seem insistent on just answering the first question. I think the rule is not perfect. But, as I have said over and over again, if people want to change the rule, they have to be ready to propose a replacement rule. And then convince people that the replacement rule is better than the current rule. |
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Jan 3, 2018 21:58:11 GMT -5
I dread the day I spot a spandex bulge in a VB game.
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 3, 2018 23:16:42 GMT -5
Transwomen are women. I don't know what else I can say. If I wanted to be a woman and said I was a woman would that make me one ? |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 3, 2018 23:17:48 GMT -5
I'd've said abhorrent, but "gross" works okay, I guess. This is exactly what pushes people away from the left and hurts progressive movements. Just in this tread people have been called hateful, bigots, told their opinions are gross and abhorrent. All this just for having an opinion different that yours. So much for tolerance and love. None of us know anything about each other besides out love for volleyball and participation on this board. Those are pretty strong and I would say hateful words to use to compete strangers. I know it’s a different subject but these kinda actions are all but guaranteeing republican reelection in 2018 and 2020. get use to it...this is the way the left fights. Dirty! |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 3, 2018 23:20:12 GMT -5
I'd've said abhorrent, but "gross" works okay, I guess. Ok, Mr. Gross/abhorent. Lets say you are one of the 30ish who get to come to the USA gym in an attempt to make the Olympic team. This has a been a dream of your since you were a little girl. One of the 30 is a man, lets call him Bobbet, who decided to become a woman. On the final day, you are excited and feel you have done enough to EARN a spot on the team. You check the list and find that you were left off but Bobbet, has made the Olympic team. Not only were you left off, but 18 other women who had the same dream did not make the Olympic team. Fair? No ...its not fair but poltically correct people don't care if it is. Anyone who dares to think otherwise is homophobic, racist,bigoted and horrible |
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Post by Fight On! on Jan 3, 2018 23:38:06 GMT -5
Transwomen are women. I don't know what else I can say. If I wanted to be a woman and said I was a woman would that make me one ? You do realize that to legally change status from man to woman a person needs to undergo clinically appropriate treatment, supervised by a physician. That usually includes counseling or psychotherapy as well as hormone replacement therapy. If that treatment is complete, the individual then follows a legal process requiring a court order. So, in this case Tiffany did not just wake up one day, decide she is a woman and join a pro women’s team. |
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Post by Fight On! on Jan 3, 2018 23:48:05 GMT -5
Ok, Mr. Gross/abhorent. Lets say you are one of the 30ish who get to come to the USA gym in an attempt to make the Olympic team. This has a been a dream of your since you were a little girl. One of the 30 is a man, lets call him Bobbet, who decided to become a woman. On the final day, you are excited and feel you have done enough to EARN a spot on the team. You check the list and find that you were left off but Bobbet, has made the Olympic team. Not only were you left off, but 18 other women who had the same dream did not make the Olympic team. Fair? No ...its not fair but poltically correct people don't care if it is. Anyone who dares to think otherwise is homophobic, racist,bigoted and horrible Accepting that trans people have rights, and choosing to advocate for them, is not simply a matter of being politically correct. Many of us have friends, co-workers, teammates, or family members who are transgender. In my case, I also have a releavnt specialization in my PhD studies and taught Gender Studies for years at a college. I am not sure why you choose to belittle that in-depth knowledge and study of the issue by labeling my support of a trans athlete as mere political correctness. Now, if one’s reasoning that Tiffany should not play is because she is really a man (which many have clearly stated on this thread) that is in fact the definition of a bigoted perspective (i.e. it demonstrates intolerance of the supportive viewpoint held by the sport’s governing bodies, modern medical practice, Brazilian laws, etc). If one’s perspective is that the current rules are too lenient as they don’t account for this, that, or the other, there is something to discuss. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 3, 2018 23:52:26 GMT -5
If I wanted to be a woman and said I was a woman would that make me one ? You do realize that to legally change status from man to woman a person needs to undergo clinically appropriate treatment, supervised by a physician. That usually includes counseling or psychotherapy as well as hormone replacement therapy. If that treatment is complete, the individual then follows a legal process requiring a court order. So, in this case Tiffany did not just wake up one day, decide she is a woman and join a pro women’s team. the mentality of a transgender nor the decision they make is in question. Its a simple question. Do their MALE GENETICS give them an unfair advantage? |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 3, 2018 23:54:10 GMT -5
No ...its not fair but poltically correct people don't care if it is. Anyone who dares to think otherwise is homophobic, racist,bigoted and horrible Accepting that trans people have rights, and choosing to advocate for them, is not simply a matter of being politically correct. Many of us have friends, co-workers, teammates, or family members who are transgender. In my case, I also have a releavnt specialization in my PhD studies and taught Gender Studies for years at a college. I am not sure why you choose to belittle that in-depth knowledge and study of the issue by labeling my support of a trans athlete as mere political correctness. Now, if one’s reasoning that Tiffany should not play is because she is really a man (which many have clearly stated on this thread) that is in fact the definition of a bigoted perspective (i.e. it demonstrates intolerance of the supportive viewpoint held by the sport’s governing bodies, modern medical practice, Brazilian laws, etc). If one’s perspective is that the current rules are too lenient as they don’t account for this, that, or the other, there is something to discuss. of course they should have rights. No one is debating that point at all. Do they have an unfair advantage genetically? Yes or no? |
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Post by Fight On! on Jan 4, 2018 0:04:49 GMT -5
You do realize that to legally change status from man to woman a person needs to undergo clinically appropriate treatment, supervised by a physician. That usually includes counseling or psychotherapy as well as hormone replacement therapy. If that treatment is complete, the individual then follows a legal process requiring a court order. So, in this case Tiffany did not just wake up one day, decide she is a woman and join a pro women’s team. the mentality of a transgender nor the decision they make is in question. Its a simple question. Do their MALE GENETICS give them an unfair advantage? What is the impact of HRT on their performance? Does prolonged, clinically-appropriate treatment bring their performance in line with that of women athletes. That should be the question. And frankly, no one has the answer. So the options are, do what is recommended by the panel of medical and legal experts or not. So far those are the recommendations being followed. They began to be followed in sport since Renee Richards played in the US Open in the 1970s. Since then a ton of men haven’t been lining up for orchiectomies, facial reconstruction, breast augmentation, laser hair removal, potential alienation from friends and family, backlash from fans and competitors and being called eunuchs and whatever other insults VT posters throw at them to win a few volleyball games. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 0:12:25 GMT -5
the mentality of a transgender nor the decision they make is in question. Its a simple question. Do their MALE GENETICS give them an unfair advantage? What is the impact of HRT on their performance? Does prolonged, clinically-appropriate treatment bring their performance in line with that of women athletes. That should be the question. And frankly, no one has the answer. So the options are, do what is recommended by the panel of medical and legal experts or not. So far those are the recommendations being followed. They began to be followed in sport since Renee Richards played in the US Open in the 1970s. Since then a ton of men haven’t been lining up for orchiectomies, facial reconstruction, breast augmentation, laser hair removal, potential alienation from friends and family, backlash from fans and competitors and being called eunuchs and whatever other insults VT posters throw at them to win a few volleyball games. common sense and logic should tell you the answer double and admitting it doesn't make you awful . |
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Post by alhorford90 on Jan 4, 2018 0:23:45 GMT -5
You do realize that to legally change status from man to woman a person needs to undergo clinically appropriate treatment, supervised by a physician. That usually includes counseling or psychotherapy as well as hormone replacement therapy. If that treatment is complete, the individual then follows a legal process requiring a court order. So, in this case Tiffany did not just wake up one day, decide she is a woman and join a pro women’s team. the mentality of a transgender nor the decision they make is in question. Its a simple question. Do their MALE GENETICS give them an unfair advantage? No one is a transgender urghhhhhhhhhhh |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 0:26:02 GMT -5
the mentality of a transgender nor the decision they make is in question. Its a simple question. Do their MALE GENETICS give them an unfair advantage? No one is a transgender urghhhhhhhhhhh Did I misread the title of this thread? |
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Post by Fight On! on Jan 4, 2018 0:28:00 GMT -5
What is the impact of HRT on their performance? Does prolonged, clinically-appropriate treatment bring their performance in line with that of women athletes. That should be the question. And frankly, no one has the answer. So the options are, do what is recommended by the panel of medical and legal experts or not. So far those are the recommendations being followed. They began to be followed in sport since Renee Richards played in the US Open in the 1970s. Since then a ton of men haven’t been lining up for orchiectomies, facial reconstruction, breast augmentation, laser hair removal, potential alienation from friends and family, backlash from fans and competitors and being called eunuchs and whatever other insults VT posters throw at them to win a few volleyball games. common sense and logic should tell you the answer double and admitting it doesn't make you awful . In the history of our society, “common sense” told us that many things were right that we no longer accept, like that women shouldn’t be allowed to vote, were naturally less intelligent than men, weren’t fit for leadership positions, etc. We thought it was natural to enslave people, appropriate to segregate them, correct to ban interracial marriage. We accepted all of that because “it just made sense.” The changes we have experienced that have ended those practices were led by relatively small groups of forward-thinking people. They challenged “common sense” and we have a different society because of it. You can base your perspective on your assumptions of the advantages this player has. I will base mine on current medical and legal opinion. |
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