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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Feb 9, 2018 22:29:33 GMT -5
What I have experienced in my 50 years is that both males and females are competitive but for some reason, women are extremely cruel to each other and they hold grudges. Men can bitch and moan but they get over it quickly while I have found women to be more viscous. That is my personal experience and believe me it has not been pleasant at times. I do believe there is an innate cattiness in women, yes. But I think the role models around those same women through their formative years can help create the monster or help cage the monster. It's easy for MANY women to let their cattiness rule. They grow in power once they gather a minion or two and no one calls them out on their b.s. for fear of retaliation. On my daughter's team there is some major power tripping going on with a girl in a leadership position on the team and she is doing quite a bit of back biting and whining to every single one (including coach) about how no one respects her (yet she seems to provide no respect to her team members). One of the girls on the team even called her out on her b.s. several weeks ago in front of everyone and the "leader" had every excuse in the book why she acts as she does. I wonder if there's something going on at home with this kid because she acts immaturely for a 17 (close to??) year old. For Chrissakes she cries at almost every tournament. Girl's got a lot of feels. One of the moms on the team confided in me that this girls has this reputation and for whatever reason they put her in this leadership position hoping for…what IDK ANYWAY I totally digressed… I think there's a point in a girls' life where the monster reigns. In this instance it's obvious this girl has some insecurities and takes it out on her teammates in various ways. She is managing to make some of the girls' lives hell at practice, stressing them. This is the cancer I mentioned at the very beginning. So my other question is: does insecurity create the monster? My own personal belief system is the way we allow teams to operate expecting the girls to handle their own %*$# is not conducive to fixing this issue. Keeping quiet about it is just allowing the monster to grow. If you say anything to the directorship than they roll their eyes or if a kid says something than she is the one who is branded as "trouble". It's problematic.
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Feb 9, 2018 22:34:41 GMT -5
The author of "Queen Bees and Wannabees" has a small video series. This one is really good:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 22:40:28 GMT -5
What I have experienced in my 50 years is that both males and females are competitive but for some reason, women are extremely cruel to each other and they hold grudges. Men can bitch and moan but they get over it quickly while I have found women to be more viscous. That is my personal experience and believe me it has not been pleasant at times. I do believe there is an innate cattiness in women, yes. But I think the role models around those same women through their formative years can help create the monster or help cage the monster. It's easy for MANY women to let their cattiness rule. They grow in power once they gather a minion or two and no one calls them out on their b.s. for fear of retaliation. On my daughter's team there is some major power tripping going on with a girl in a leadership position on the team and she is doing quite a bit of back biting and whining to every single one (including coach) about how no one respects her (yet she seems to provide no respect to her team members). One of the girls on the team even called her out on her b.s. several weeks ago in front of everyone and the "leader" had every excuse in the book why she acts as she does. I wonder if there's something going on at home with this kid because she acts immaturely for a 17 (close to??) year old. For Chrissakes she cries at almost every tournament. Girl's got a lot of feels. One of the moms on the team confided in me that this girls has this reputation and for whatever reason they put her in this leadership position hoping for…what IDK ANYWAY I totally digressed… I think there's a point in a girls' life where the monster reigns. In this instance it's obvious this girl has some insecurities and takes it out on her teammates in various ways. She is managing to make some of the girls' lives hell at practice, stressing them. This is the cancer I mentioned at the very beginning. So my other question is: does insecurity create the monster? My own personal belief system is the way we allow teams to operate expecting the girls to handle their own %*$# is not conducive to fixing this issue. Keeping quiet about it is just allowing the monster to grow. If you say anything to the directorship than they roll their eyes or if a kid says something than she is the one who is branded as "trouble". It's problematic. First of all I am so very sorry you and your daughter are going through this...it really sounds very toxic. I would say to your daughter to remain strong, never give up on what she believes in...Do not let anyone influence you in any direction...go with your gut! It never lies. I, myself, had to remove myself from the day to day @$$%*!* and say I am not taking this %*$# anymore. I do not need someone else telling me how to live my life. Explain to your daughter that it pays more to be a leader than a follower:-)
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Feb 9, 2018 22:46:28 GMT -5
First of all I am so very sorry you and your daughter are going through this...it really sounds very toxic. I would say to your daughter to remain strong, never give up on what she believes in...Do not let anyone influence you in any direction...go with your gut! It never lies. I, myself, had to remove myself from the day to day @$$%*!* and say I am not taking this %*$# anymore. I do not need someone else telling me how to live my life. Explain to your daughter that it pays more to be a leader than a follower:-) Thank you. At the moment she's not one of her targets although she has taken it upon herself to start with the newer girls so I'm sure my kid is in queue to be. Won't be the first time, we women know well enough how "girl world" operates. The situation is very toxic and at this gym because we are a new family I don't even know how to address any of this. As I mentioned in one of my prior posts I have witnessed the mom group on our school team turn against a mom who intervened on the behalf of a kid not her own. It's truly head scratch worthy the lengths we women go to to protect our perceived power structure.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 22:54:25 GMT -5
First of all I am so very sorry you and your daughter are going through this...it really sounds very toxic. I would say to your daughter to remain strong, never give up on what she believes in...Do not let anyone influence you in any direction...go with your gut! It never lies. I, myself, had to remove myself from the day to day @$$%*!* and say I am not taking this %*$# anymore. I do not need someone else telling me how to live my life. Explain to your daughter that it pays more to be a leader than a follower:-) Thank you. At the moment she's not one of her targets although she has taken it upon herself to start with the newer girls so I'm sure my kid is in queue to be. Won't be the first time, we women know well enough how "girl world" operates. The situation is very toxic and at this gym because we are a new family I don't even know how to address any of this. As I mentioned in one of my prior posts I have witnessed the mom group on our school team turn against a mom who intervened on the behalf of a kid not her own. It's truly head scratch worthy the lengths we women go to to protect our perceived power structure. I am so very sorry you and your daughter are going through this. All, I can say is I sure wish it was easier for her right now, it just breaks my heart that we women cannot stay together too support each other. What a shame....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 23:07:48 GMT -5
It's wonderful to be competitive in life but it's another story when we are being vindictive. That is never Ok. If someone is successful in life, enjoy it, do not ruin it for that person. And, first and foremost, DO not let anyone decide your fate in life because that belongs to you and no one else. Period.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 23:56:24 GMT -5
It's wonderful to be competitive in life but it's another story when we are being vindictive. That is never Ok. If someone is successful in life, enjoy it, do not ruin it for that person. And, first and foremost, DO not let anyone decide your fate in life because that belongs to you and no one else. Period. [/quot Wish you the best.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 23:58:17 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 11:47:08 GMT -5
I have a true story to tell and it took place in 1978. Girls are cruel. I was in 6th grade and my best friend was Kandi. There was a group of us 4 girls but there was a pecking order and Kandi was the leader...For some reason she decided that we would outcast/ignore one person in our group...that was fine until it came time for you. I will never forget that painful time, I told my Mom I was sick and could not go to school and I did this for the whole week. At the end of the week my Mom took me out shopping and to lunch. She knew something was wrong but didn't know what was going on. I found out later that my best friend Kandi...her parents were horrible alcoholics. She had no control in her life so she exerted her control on her friends and that is what made her powerful. To this day, after 50 years she is still my friend...She has lost her father but her Mom is still living and she is very proud that her Mom is sober. We never know what is going on in someones life. I'm not making excuses. It's just life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 13:19:34 GMT -5
Indeed. You've posted stories about other women like five times in this thread already. Anonymously. Nothing worse than women tearing other women down.
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Post by trainermch on Feb 10, 2018 14:33:38 GMT -5
Indeed. You've posted stories about other women like five times in this thread already. Anonymously. Nothing worse than women tearing other women down. Males and females can both be cruel. They just have different methods and recovery processes. They also draw different reactions by observers. I could post a dozen stories here every day after coming home from working in HS guidance. When females are the perps, it's a clutch-pearl reaction. When males are involved, it's an eye-roll or sigh. Was, is, always will be. That's life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 17:36:41 GMT -5
Indeed. You've posted stories about other women like five times in this thread already. Anonymously. Nothing worse than women tearing other women down. I don't think I have posted 5 different stories in this thread but believe me I could probably come up with them. No need for the sarcasm if you have something to say then just say it. Otherwise...Shhhhhhhh. I deal with enough %*$# in my life and I certainly don't need it from you so F*** off.
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Post by trainermch on Feb 10, 2018 17:47:36 GMT -5
Indeed. You've posted stories about other women like five times in this thread already. Anonymously. Nothing worse than women tearing other women down. I don't think I have posted 5 different stories in this thread but believe me I could probably come up with them. No need for the sarcasm if you have something to say then just say it. Otherwise...Shhhhhhhh. I deal with enough %*$# in my life and I certainly don't need it from you so F*** off. And I would have to give you detention...with a
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 18:20:02 GMT -5
I don't think I have posted 5 different stories in this thread but believe me I could probably come up with them. No need for the sarcasm if you have something to say then just say it. Otherwise...Shhhhhhhh. I deal with enough %*$# in my life and I certainly don't need it from you so F*** off. And I would have to give you detention...with a Believe me I spent so much time in detention back in the day I can take it. Imagine that? ROFLMAO!
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Post by donut on Feb 10, 2018 18:32:25 GMT -5
<iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 18.72px; height: 4.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 877px; top: -202px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_63919149"></iframe> <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 18.72px; height: 4.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 10px; top: -15px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_77993203"></iframe> <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 18.72px; height: 4.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 877px; top: -15px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_99440468"></iframe> The four-year-old games would be posting to say you are no longer posting just to try to get in the last word. Not true. I've learned in life to choose your battles and move on. The conversation for me ended when you put words in my mouth and made assumptions about my daughter when she was 4 and she is a successful woman with a great career and wonderful Wife and Mother. You just assumed that she was the one being manipulative and that is simply not the case. Are you male or female? You spoke a lot about how males make trouble for us females in the workplace and that is the reason for us being manipulative and backstabbing and that is simply false. If I have a problem with a man in the workplace including my boss...I will give him an ass chewing and put him in his place and I have no problem with that. I am a leader, not a follower and I'm proud of that. I have worked for women who held very high management positions and one of them was at Boeing. Our Senior Director was a woman and guess what? All of the men in management below her would talk behind her back and say that she wasn't qualified. Why? Because they were intimidated and pissed off because they had a woman for a boss.Not to get off topic here but what I was saying in my original post is we are all born with a competitive nature and we are born with that regardless if we are male or female. This goes back centuries and I do not need someone with a PHD who does a study to tell me that my life experiences are wrong, that is what I have to go on, its what I have experienced. It doesn't matter to me if you agree with me or not. We are all entitled to OUR opinion.This is a volleyball forum not a court of law so I am not required to provide proof of what I have lived or witnessed. Its you that has made an assumption about me, my personal life, and what I experienced at Boeing without knowing the truth. What I have experienced in my 50 years is that both males and females are competitive but for some reason, women are extremely cruel to each other and they hold grudges. Men can bitch and moan but they get over it quickly while I have found women to be more viscous. That is my personal experience and believe me it has not been pleasant at times. 1. Jesus Christ. I NEVER put words into your mouth. You decided to bring up your daughter as empirical evidence for why "girls are cruel" and I asked for examples of how the 4-year-olds you observed were manipulative nightmares. I'm still waiting. 2. "Because they were intimidated and pissed off because they had a woman for a boss."You are arguing in circles. This is the point I am making. This, plus SO MANY OTHER STRESSFUL WORK FACTORS, will cause women to behave in a "b*tchy", "manipulative" or "cruel" fashion. NOT some innate qualities that you and your comrades have still failed to identify. 3. Your life experiences go back centuries? Please. You are disrespecting people who have dedicated their lives to the study of social interactions between men and women in the workplace. No one is doubting your experiences, just your interpretations of said experiences. You can stick to your opinions and remain ignorant or you can try to find a more informed perspective as to why you may have experienced difficult women in the past -- here's a good start. "The key point to remember, according to Naomi Ellemers and other researchers, is that queen-bee behavior arises under certain circumstances—like when a woman believes that the path to success is so narrow, she can barely squeeze through herself, let alone try to bring others along with her."
All in all, I don't understand why you wouldn't WANT to adopt a framework that allows you to improve the workplace for other women, your daughter included. Your perspective of "women suck, that's just how it is, stick to men" is defeatist and a step backwards for all of the powerful and wonderful women I know that use the male-dominated workplace as a partial incentive for success, so that future girls won't have to be "b*tchy," "manipulative" or "cruel."
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