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Post by updawg on Jan 20, 2019 18:33:00 GMT -5
Are the Butlers being sued because he committed fraud by concealing the information about his past or are they being sued for abusing the daughter/mom or any other players? I read the lawsuit and I thought it was because he hid this information. I'm not an attorney, but I wonder why the attorneys would be allowed to question him on whether he did or did not commit those acts. I would think the questioning would have to be centered around the concealment of the allegations against him. Any attorneys that understand this stuff and can offer more than speculation?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 19:40:41 GMT -5
Just passed rick butler at the Chicago High performance tryouts. Why is he allowed here? Did you get a picture so we can call out the region and USAV?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 20:05:39 GMT -5
Are the Butlers being sued because he committed fraud by concealing the information about his past or are they being sued for abusing the daughter/mom or any other players? I read the lawsuit and I thought it was because he hid this information. I'm not an attorney, but I wonder why the attorneys would be allowed to question him on whether he did or did not commit those acts. I would think the questioning would have to be centered around the concealment of the allegations against him. Any attorneys that understand this stuff and can offer more than speculation? Read docket#100. Specifically page 4. Allegations of fraud are directly connected to sexual abuse cover up. So getting to bottom of the sexual abuse is part of proving fraud and therefore relevant.
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Post by dgo on Jan 21, 2019 9:17:14 GMT -5
Can anyone clarify what exactly this means? I understand there now has to be a trial, but is there any way they can now say they want to settle? I also understand they will be deposed, but don't you think their version of the truth is what they will testify to? They've told their story so many times, I think we all believe that is "their version" of the truth. I agree this is good news that we've all been waiting for, especially the victims. Just want to know if they do decide to settle #1, can they? #2 will plaintiffs attorney or judge allow a settlement? If not and it took 11 months just to get to the point of making this a class action, how long would a trial drag on? Any light anyone can shed on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a trial. But, this is an important victory for those who are suing the Butlers. What the judge decided is that the lawsuit will be allowed to proceed as a class action. This means that instead of just one person suing the Butlers, it's "all individuals who paid money to the defendants for youth volleyball instruction through the Sports Performance program provided by or through GLV Inc. in the State of Illinois between February 27, 2013 and January 10, 2018." Having to defend a class action is typically far more expensive than a lawsuit by a single person and the stakes are much higher. Defendants generally fight very hard -- as the Butlers appear to have done -- to avoid class certification. But it is a procedural issue. In reaching this decision, the court has not yet considered the merits of the underlying lawsuit -- it just decided how the case will move forward. In the simplest of terms, the court decided that there are enough people with similar complaints that it makes sense to just have one lawsuit for all of them. And the court also decided that Mullen and her attorneys can adequately represent the interests of all the class members. At the risk of over simplification, the lawsuit starts now -- all that has been decided is how it will move forward. In other words, the lawsuit is now at the stage it would have been at a year ago if they had not made it a class action. The next thing that they'll do is notify all the class members. Everyone who falls into that group defined above ( i.e., those who paid money between 2013 and 2018) will get a notice in the mail telling them about the lawsuit. Many people have received notices like this from time to time relating to other things. I know I've received several over the years -- Ticketmaster comes to mind. Once that's done (or maybe even while that is occurring), they'll get into discovery. That's when the depositions will happen. People will be put under oath and asked about things. For the record, I'd say it is extremely unlikely that anyone will ever be charged with perjury. Unfortunately, people frequently lie in their depositions, but are very infrequently charged with perjury. And regarding whether Butler will be asked about the sexual issues, I noted that the court had this to say in the recent decision certifying the class: "Proving deceit in this case necessarily requires Mullen to show that the underlying sexual-abuse allegations against Rick Butler are true, an issue which can be resolved for the class as a whole." Without a doubt, the issue is sexual abuse will be central to the case and will be investigated in discovery. The plaintiff cannot prove that Butler committed fraud without proving the sexual assault. After discovery, I'd imagine the Butlers and their attorneys will file a motion to get the case thrown out. That will be the first time the court considers the merits of lawsuit. If that motion fails, then this potentially go to trial. This case is still a long way from going to trial. And the parties will have an opportunity to try to settle the case at pretty much any point in the process if they want to do so.
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Post by n00b on Jan 21, 2019 11:08:34 GMT -5
A large portion of the ‘class’ that is suing Butler would speak in favor of him and be opposed to this lawsuit.
I can’t imagine that happens very often in these things.
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Post by why on Jan 21, 2019 11:29:07 GMT -5
A large portion of the ‘class’ that is suing Butler would speak in favor of him and be opposed to this lawsuit. I can’t imagine that happens very often in these things. A large portion of people who smoke, back cigarette companies is the first thing that comes to mind. While it might not happen very often, it does and sometimes it takes time before you realize what has been hidden by the company.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 11:33:10 GMT -5
A large portion of the ‘class’ that is suing Butler would speak in favor of him and be opposed to this lawsuit. I can’t imagine that happens very often in these things. You really think a large portion of parents of SPRI girls will speak out in favor of him when they find out he he was banned from coaching by the governing body of his sport for statutory rape of multiple girls he was coaching, and DCFS and a later judge both said he should have been prosecuted? Exactly what kind of parent stands up for that? I hope you are wrong, because it will be incredibly creepy if you are right.
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Post by n00b on Jan 21, 2019 12:01:52 GMT -5
A large portion of the ‘class’ that is suing Butler would speak in favor of him and be opposed to this lawsuit. I can’t imagine that happens very often in these things. You really think a large portion of parents of SPRI girls will speak out in favor of him when they find out he he was banned from coaching by the governing body of his sport for statutory rape of multiple girls he was coaching, and DCFS and a later judge both said he should have been prosecuted? Exactly what kind of parent stands up for that? I hope you are wrong, because it will be incredibly creepy if you are right. Almost all the parents already knew this.
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Post by karellen on Jan 21, 2019 12:04:44 GMT -5
You really think a large portion of parents of SPRI girls will speak out in favor of him when they find out he he was banned from coaching by the governing body of his sport for statutory rape of multiple girls he was coaching, and DCFS and a later judge both said he should have been prosecuted? Exactly what kind of parent stands up for that? I hope you are wrong, because it will be incredibly creepy if you are right. Almost all the parents already knew this. Agreed. This is not the huge secret in the Chicago volleyball scene as it has been made out to be. I know many outside of Chicago were shocked to hear, but not in Chicago area.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 12:33:22 GMT -5
You really think a large portion of parents of SPRI girls will speak out in favor of him when they find out he he was banned from coaching by the governing body of his sport for statutory rape of multiple girls he was coaching, and DCFS and a later judge both said he should have been prosecuted? Exactly what kind of parent stands up for that? I hope you are wrong, because it will be incredibly creepy if you are right. Almost all the parents already knew this. It sounds like most parents didn't know, and the ones that did know were lied to about what really happened. They were told a very watered down version that included jealous people out to get him and his business, and that any relationships were after girls were of age and had left his club. If parents knew the truth and actively supported him anyway, shame on them. That is really creepy, and a good reason for USAV, AAU, JVA and the courts to step in and rectify an incredibly warped and broken situation.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jan 21, 2019 15:29:38 GMT -5
Almost all the parents already knew this. It sounds like most parents didn't know, and the ones that did know were lied to about what really happened. They were told a very watered down version that included jealous people out to get him and his business, and that any relationships were after girls were of age and had left his club. If parents knew the truth and actively supported him anyway, shame on them. That is really creepy, and a good reason for USAV, AAU, JVA and the courts to step in and rectify an incredibly warped and broken situation. Like the two others commented before me, and unfortunately for everyone outside Chicagoland to hear, this has been literally the most well known "secret" there is for 20 years or more. SPRI coaches who worked with rick will tell you how he will "openly" talk about the situation with them if they ask and give advice how they can avoid the trouble he found himself in, and from the multiple accounts of this same story I have been told he sticks to his story about how they were 18 or older. I know it may be hard for people outside of the Chicagoland area to comprehend that multiple years worth of volleyball communities around here came through knowing the man did something so disgusting and vile, but trust me when I say there is not much anyone could do about it. If you spoke out and made enough noise you would have rick and cheryl basically outright threatening your playing/coaching career, or blackmailing you with any volleyball related opportunities that may come your way. Those who did have power (Great Lakes Region) to combat the butlers hid in the corner and basically did nothing to make noise or help remove him from volleyball, it only added insult to injury that they were so incompetent and greedy running the old version of WCPL that it basically encouraged people to suck up their pride and sign up for GLPL. It was almost as if as long as everyone was making money and not bothering each other then who really cared because they were too scared to mess up the comfort level they had in the volleyball world (or too lazy) while still collecting a paycheck and then the bonuses they gave themselves for such hard work done when the region was awarded the Windy City Qualifier.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jan 21, 2019 15:38:37 GMT -5
A large portion of the ‘class’ that is suing Butler would speak in favor of him and be opposed to this lawsuit. I can’t imagine that happens very often in these things. You really think a large portion of parents of SPRI girls will speak out in favor of him when they find out he he was banned from coaching by the governing body of his sport for statutory rape of multiple girls he was coaching, and DCFS and a later judge both said he should have been prosecuted? Exactly what kind of parent stands up for that? I hope you are wrong, because it will be incredibly creepy if you are right. Yes, they already do - you have countless alumni, and parents of alumni, expressing their love and admiration for the man and his club. However I would not be surprised if you have a few parents that spent 10's of thousands of dollars with their business taking the opportunity to re coup some of that money now that their children have moved on and they have nothing to do with SPVB anymore. It certainly will be fun to see if any of the handful of kids that actually played for him and despise him come out and speak against him. I know multiple girls that have told me first hand if they had not made the Elite team as a junior/senior they would have played somewhere else, for you could not speak out against him, challenge him, or change clubs in fear that he would smear your name and discount the ability you had on the court.
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Post by azvb on Jan 21, 2019 16:00:56 GMT -5
I can understand parents “not knowing” or “only knowing the watered down version” before google search was a thing. But everything Rick and Cheryl have told parents could be EASILY researched by parents with access to a computer. They have chosen to believe him over his victims, and evidently see nothing wrong with a coach sleeping with his players as long as the player was 18. Boggles my mind.
Parents with kids who played in the 90’s probably will join this suit. Hey literally may have never heard of Rick’s past.
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Post by updawg on Jan 21, 2019 16:08:39 GMT -5
It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a trial. But, this is an important victory for those who are suing the Butlers. What the judge decided is that the lawsuit will be allowed to proceed as a class action. This means that instead of just one person suing the Butlers, it's "all individuals who paid money to the defendants for youth volleyball instruction through the Sports Performance program provided by or through GLV Inc. in the State of Illinois between February 27, 2013 and January 10, 2018." Having to defend a class action is typically far more expensive than a lawsuit by a single person and the stakes are much higher. Defendants generally fight very hard -- as the Butlers appear to have done -- to avoid class certification. But it is a procedural issue. In reaching this decision, the court has not yet considered the merits of the underlying lawsuit -- it just decided how the case will move forward. In the simplest of terms, the court decided that there are enough people with similar complaints that it makes sense to just have one lawsuit for all of them. And the court also decided that Mullen and her attorneys can adequately represent the interests of all the class members. At the risk of over simplification, the lawsuit starts now -- all that has been decided is how it will move forward. In other words, the lawsuit is now at the stage it would have been at a year ago if they had not made it a class action. The next thing that they'll do is notify all the class members. Everyone who falls into that group defined above ( i.e., those who paid money between 2013 and 2018) will get a notice in the mail telling them about the lawsuit. Many people have received notices like this from time to time relating to other things. I know I've received several over the years -- Ticketmaster comes to mind. Once that's done (or maybe even while that is occurring), they'll get into discovery. That's when the depositions will happen. People will be put under oath and asked about things. For the record, I'd say it is extremely unlikely that anyone will ever be charged with perjury. Unfortunately, people frequently lie in their depositions, but are very infrequently charged with perjury. And regarding whether Butler will be asked about the sexual issues, I noted that the court had this to say in the recent decision certifying the class: "Proving deceit in this case necessarily requires Mullen to show that the underlying sexual-abuse allegations against Rick Butler are true, an issue which can be resolved for the class as a whole." Without a doubt, the issue is sexual abuse will be central to the case and will be investigated in discovery. The plaintiff cannot prove that Butler committed fraud without proving the sexual assault. After discovery, I'd imagine the Butlers and their attorneys will file a motion to get the case thrown out. That will be the first time the court considers the merits of lawsuit. If that motion fails, then this potentially go to trial. This case is still a long way from going to trial. And the parties will have an opportunity to try to settle the case at pretty much any point in the process if they want to do so. Thanks for the great explanation of the process. The thing that I also wonder about this case is, does the plaintiff have to prove that she was personally deceived and did not know about RB's past in order to win the case, or only prove that others did not know? As many on this thread have pointed out, everyone in the area knew about the accusations in his past. Mullen was at the club, left the club, and then came back again over several years. Her daughter wound up with a scholarship (I assume) to play at Boston College. With that many years playing there, Mom and daughter would have had to be living under a rock, never spoken to another parent, and not had access to the internet to not know. It seems it would be pretty difficult to prove she was deceived in any way as to his past. Your (legal) thoughts?
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Post by Wolfgang on Jan 21, 2019 16:12:02 GMT -5
It certainly matters that the girls were "18 years or older" from a legal perspective but in reality, it doesn't matter. When I was a grad student and taught classes to 18-22 year olds, it didn't matter. You'd look at these coeds who are drop dead beautiful women but as soon as you talk to them, you realize very quickly that they're still just children. All of a sudden, they're not women anymore but girls in women's bodies. And you have to deal with them carefully as such. Mentally and emotionally, you're dealing with vulnerable children who are still trying to find themselves, find their way through the world, and forge some sort of "working" identity as they experiment with or "try on" different personalities. Only a lowlife would take advantage of that situation.
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