ikamtm
Sophomore
Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle.
Posts: 164
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Post by ikamtm on Jan 21, 2019 22:13:42 GMT -5
It sounds like most parents didn't know, and the ones that did know were lied to about what really happened. They were told a very watered down version that included jealous people out to get him and his business, and that any relationships were after girls were of age and had left his club. If parents knew the truth and actively supported him anyway, shame on them. That is really creepy, and a good reason for USAV, AAU, JVA and the courts to step in and rectify an incredibly warped and broken situation. Like the two others commented before me, and unfortunately for everyone outside Chicagoland to hear, this has been literally the most well known "secret" there is for 20 years or more. SPRI coaches who worked with rick will tell you how he will "openly" talk about the situation with them if they ask and give advice how they can avoid the trouble he found himself in, and from the multiple accounts of this same story I have been told he sticks to his story about how they were 18 or older. I know it may be hard for people outside of the Chicagoland area to comprehend that multiple years worth of volleyball communities around here came through knowing the man did something so disgusting and vile, but trust me when I say there is not much anyone could do about it. If you spoke out and made enough noise you would have rick and cheryl basically outright threatening your playing/coaching career, or blackmailing you with any volleyball related opportunities that may come your way. Those who did have power (Great Lakes Region) to combat the butlers hid in the corner and basically did nothing to make noise or help remove him from volleyball, it only added insult to injury that they were so incompetent and greedy running the old version of WCPL that it basically encouraged people to suck up their pride and sign up for GLPL. It was almost as if as long as everyone was making money and not bothering each other then who really cared because they were too scared to mess up the comfort level they had in the volleyball world (or too lazy) while still collecting a paycheck and then the bonuses they gave themselves for such hard work done when the region was awarded the Windy City Qualifier. I thought for once you were going to make a post that was informative and made sense, but then. like the broken bitter record you are, had to take another jab at Great Lakes Region. Get over your bitterness and hate. What were they supposed to do? I know Donna very well and she is anything but incompetent, she is the one who put the league together. It must just kill you that you were told to pack your bags and leave. What part were you cut out of the Region or the Qualifier? No matter which one, I'm glad you were cut out, people don't like negative whiners who try to blame everyone but themselves. As I said before to you, get over it. Move on, you'll feel much better...then again, maybe not.
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ikamtm
Sophomore
Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle.
Posts: 164
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Post by ikamtm on Jan 21, 2019 22:16:06 GMT -5
It sounds like most parents didn't know, and the ones that did know were lied to about what really happened. They were told a very watered down version that included jealous people out to get him and his business, and that any relationships were after girls were of age and had left his club. If parents knew the truth and actively supported him anyway, shame on them. That is really creepy, and a good reason for USAV, AAU, JVA and the courts to step in and rectify an incredibly warped and broken situation. Like the two others commented before me, and unfortunately for everyone outside Chicagoland to hear, this has been literally the most well known "secret" there is for 20 years or more. SPRI coaches who worked with rick will tell you how he will "openly" talk about the situation with them if they ask and give advice how they can avoid the trouble he found himself in, and from the multiple accounts of this same story I have been told he sticks to his story about how they were 18 or older. I know it may be hard for people outside of the Chicagoland area to comprehend that multiple years worth of volleyball communities around here came through knowing the man did something so disgusting and vile, but trust me when I say there is not much anyone could do about it. If you spoke out and made enough noise you would have rick and cheryl basically outright threatening your playing/coaching career, or blackmailing you with any volleyball related opportunities that may come your way. Those who did have power (Great Lakes Region) to combat the butlers hid in the corner and basically did nothing to make noise or help remove him from volleyball, it only added insult to injury that they were so incompetent and greedy running the old version of WCPL that it basically encouraged people to suck up their pride and sign up for GLPL. It was almost as if as long as everyone was making money and not bothering each other then who really cared because they were too scared to mess up the comfort level they had in the volleyball world (or too lazy) while still collecting a paycheck and then the bonuses they gave themselves for such hard work done when the region was awarded the Windy City Qualifier.
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ikamtm
Sophomore
Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle.
Posts: 164
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Post by ikamtm on Jan 21, 2019 22:17:47 GMT -5
It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a trial. But, this is an important victory for those who are suing the Butlers. What the judge decided is that the lawsuit will be allowed to proceed as a class action. This means that instead of just one person suing the Butlers, it's "all individuals who paid money to the defendants for youth volleyball instruction through the Sports Performance program provided by or through GLV Inc. in the State of Illinois between February 27, 2013 and January 10, 2018." Having to defend a class action is typically far more expensive than a lawsuit by a single person and the stakes are much higher. Defendants generally fight very hard -- as the Butlers appear to have done -- to avoid class certification. But it is a procedural issue. In reaching this decision, the court has not yet considered the merits of the underlying lawsuit -- it just decided how the case will move forward. In the simplest of terms, the court decided that there are enough people with similar complaints that it makes sense to just have one lawsuit for all of them. And the court also decided that Mullen and her attorneys can adequately represent the interests of all the class members. At the risk of over simplification, the lawsuit starts now -- all that has been decided is how it will move forward. In other words, the lawsuit is now at the stage it would have been at a year ago if they had not made it a class action. The next thing that they'll do is notify all the class members. Everyone who falls into that group defined above ( i.e., those who paid money between 2013 and 2018) will get a notice in the mail telling them about the lawsuit. Many people have received notices like this from time to time relating to other things. I know I've received several over the years -- Ticketmaster comes to mind. Once that's done (or maybe even while that is occurring), they'll get into discovery. That's when the depositions will happen. People will be put under oath and asked about things. For the record, I'd say it is extremely unlikely that anyone will ever be charged with perjury. Unfortunately, people frequently lie in their depositions, but are very infrequently charged with perjury. And regarding whether Butler will be asked about the sexual issues, I noted that the court had this to say in the recent decision certifying the class: "Proving deceit in this case necessarily requires Mullen to show that the underlying sexual-abuse allegations against Rick Butler are true, an issue which can be resolved for the class as a whole." Without a doubt, the issue is sexual abuse will be central to the case and will be investigated in discovery. The plaintiff cannot prove that Butler committed fraud without proving the sexual assault. After discovery, I'd imagine the Butlers and their attorneys will file a motion to get the case thrown out. That will be the first time the court considers the merits of lawsuit. If that motion fails, then this potentially go to trial. This case is still a long way from going to trial. And the parties will have an opportunity to try to settle the case at pretty much any point in the process if they want to do so. Thank you for the indepth explanation, it was very informative and very enlightening. I appreciate it.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jan 22, 2019 10:02:13 GMT -5
Like the two others commented before me, and unfortunately for everyone outside Chicagoland to hear, this has been literally the most well known "secret" there is for 20 years or more. SPRI coaches who worked with rick will tell you how he will "openly" talk about the situation with them if they ask and give advice how they can avoid the trouble he found himself in, and from the multiple accounts of this same story I have been told he sticks to his story about how they were 18 or older. I know it may be hard for people outside of the Chicagoland area to comprehend that multiple years worth of volleyball communities around here came through knowing the man did something so disgusting and vile, but trust me when I say there is not much anyone could do about it. If you spoke out and made enough noise you would have rick and cheryl basically outright threatening your playing/coaching career, or blackmailing you with any volleyball related opportunities that may come your way. Those who did have power (Great Lakes Region) to combat the butlers hid in the corner and basically did nothing to make noise or help remove him from volleyball, it only added insult to injury that they were so incompetent and greedy running the old version of WCPL that it basically encouraged people to suck up their pride and sign up for GLPL. It was almost as if as long as everyone was making money and not bothering each other then who really cared because they were too scared to mess up the comfort level they had in the volleyball world (or too lazy) while still collecting a paycheck and then the bonuses they gave themselves for such hard work done when the region was awarded the Windy City Qualifier. I thought for once you were going to make a post that was informative and made sense, but then. like the broken bitter record you are, had to take another jab at Great Lakes Region. Get over your bitterness and hate. What were they supposed to do? I know Donna very well and she is anything but incompetent, she is the one who put the league together. It must just kill you that you were told to pack your bags and leave. What part were you cut out of the Region or the Qualifier? No matter which one, I'm glad you were cut out, people don't like negative whiners who try to blame everyone but themselves. As I said before to you, get over it. Move on, you'll feel much better...then again, maybe not. I actually make quite a few posts that are informative and make sense, but I love seeing the same tactics used by the butler's to detract the statements made by saying I am full of bitterness and hate. What were they supposed to do you ask, well for starters they could have continued the pressure to keep their region that has new members join annually informed about the behavior of one rick butler instead of just being bitter themselves every time someone left their dog-crap power league for something clearly more superior even though run by a complete scumbag. Or how about starting within their own jurisdiction of all transgressions that happened at clubs that were registered under the Great Lakes Region instead of allowing them to continue coaching, open a club, or get hired at a different club from where they were fired just for starters. It must be so hard for you to keep the persona you play straight, first the people who have run the region for years are your acquaintances and you make it clear you don't know them very well, then later on you post how you don't know them at all but believe they have done a good job for a long time, then now you say that you know Donna very well - so which is it? And Donna didn't put the league together herself she had the help of the other people in the region office as well as a board of club directors that all had a similar goal in mind. If you are trying to tell me that you know Donna very well and that she alone is responsible for the absolute mess that the old version of the WCPL then that is pretty upsetting because she is a great person but clearly proving she should have stopped being involved years ago. And to be clear I said the region was incompetent, not Donna. If I wanted to single someone out I would have said how Sandy was a greedy, egotistical, power hungry person that had it not been for the larry nassar case then the region would have never had another shot at getting a prominent league back.......but I didn't say that. Oh and the bonuses they all took when awarded the Windy City Qualifier is no secret, all their tax info is public record and available. I was never cut out of the region or a qualifier, just very long standing member USAV and completely sick of the people in charge of the Great Lakes Region ready for a change.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 10:29:02 GMT -5
To those who continue to post the comments along the lines of "almost all", "everyone", "worse kept secret", "only a google search away", etc., not true. It was not until after the 4th year of tryouts that my spouse or I heard anything about RB/SPRI. There are 10 girls on her team and in conversations with those parents I can promise you "almost all" of them were completely ignorant of his past. In conversation this weekend alone parents were still shocked to hear the depths of the allegations and even those who did know were clueless about DCFS findings from the 90s or the handwritten letters from RB to his 16/17yo victims. These were not readily available to the public until the Mullens v. butler suit filing.
As others have said, do/did SPRI families know the 'truth' of the allegations? or RBs version? I am not even asking if all the allegations are true (which I believe they are), but just the depth of the allegations from the victims perspective? RB/CB willing talk to any/all parents that want to know about this?
do they show these parents the letters he wrote? pages 17-20 of the civil complaint
do they show the parents the DCFS report? "The administrative law judge, after reviewing all the evidence, makes the following findings of fact: 9. The appellant had sexual relationships with at least 3 players, Sarah Powers, Julie Bremner, and Christine Tuzzi, in the years they were sixteen and seventeen and he was their coach. 12. The appellant admits that he had sexual relations the girls but denies this occurred while their were minors. His denial is not credible."
and the recommendations of that report? "The administrative law judge is convinced that the Department has carried the burden of proof of demonstrating by a preponderance of evidence that the appellant's actions constitute child abuse. Therefore, it is the recommended that the appellant's request for expungement from the State Central Register be denied and the case remain indicated."
the findings from the 1995 USAV hearing - "committee makes the following findings of fact: Beginning in 1981, Rick Butler had unprotected sexual intercourse and subsequent physical and emotional relationship with 16 year old Sarah Powers (Barnhard)...causing her to lose her virginity - Beginning in 1984, Rick Butler had unprotected sexual intercourse and subsequent physical and emotional relationship with 16 year old Christina Brigman (Tuzi)...causing her to lose her virginity - Beginning in 1987, Rick Butler had unprotected sexual intercourse and subsequent physical and emotional relationship with 16 year old Julie Bremner...causing her to lose her virginity."
It sickens me to think 'almost all' of humanity is shallow enough to know the full depths of the allegations and turn a blind eye. I believe better of my fellow human.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jan 22, 2019 11:53:07 GMT -5
It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a trial. But, this is an important victory for those who are suing the Butlers. What the judge decided is that the lawsuit will be allowed to proceed as a class action. This means that instead of just one person suing the Butlers, it's "all individuals who paid money to the defendants for youth volleyball instruction through the Sports Performance program provided by or through GLV Inc. in the State of Illinois between February 27, 2013 and January 10, 2018." Having to defend a class action is typically far more expensive than a lawsuit by a single person and the stakes are much higher. Defendants generally fight very hard -- as the Butlers appear to have done -- to avoid class certification. But it is a procedural issue. In reaching this decision, the court has not yet considered the merits of the underlying lawsuit -- it just decided how the case will move forward. In the simplest of terms, the court decided that there are enough people with similar complaints that it makes sense to just have one lawsuit for all of them. And the court also decided that Mullen and her attorneys can adequately represent the interests of all the class members. At the risk of over simplification, the lawsuit starts now -- all that has been decided is how it will move forward. In other words, the lawsuit is now at the stage it would have been at a year ago if they had not made it a class action. The next thing that they'll do is notify all the class members. Everyone who falls into that group defined above ( i.e., those who paid money between 2013 and 2018) will get a notice in the mail telling them about the lawsuit. Many people have received notices like this from time to time relating to other things. I know I've received several over the years -- Ticketmaster comes to mind. Once that's done (or maybe even while that is occurring), they'll get into discovery. That's when the depositions will happen. People will be put under oath and asked about things. For the record, I'd say it is extremely unlikely that anyone will ever be charged with perjury. Unfortunately, people frequently lie in their depositions, but are very infrequently charged with perjury. And regarding whether Butler will be asked about the sexual issues, I noted that the court had this to say in the recent decision certifying the class: "Proving deceit in this case necessarily requires Mullen to show that the underlying sexual-abuse allegations against Rick Butler are true, an issue which can be resolved for the class as a whole." Without a doubt, the issue is sexual abuse will be central to the case and will be investigated in discovery. The plaintiff cannot prove that Butler committed fraud without proving the sexual assault. After discovery, I'd imagine the Butlers and their attorneys will file a motion to get the case thrown out. That will be the first time the court considers the merits of lawsuit. If that motion fails, then this potentially go to trial. This case is still a long way from going to trial. And the parties will have an opportunity to try to settle the case at pretty much any point in the process if they want to do so. IANAL, but don't motions to dismiss occur BEFORE discovery? The whole idea is to avoid discovery, both from a cost standpoint and from a disclosure standpoint? Usually IME the motion to dismiss happens first, even prior to the class certification. They've already survived a motion to dismiss last year, per Court Listener. The judge ruled in favor of the plaintiffs on July 2, 2018.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 12:39:18 GMT -5
It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a trial. But, this is an important victory for those who are suing the Butlers. What the judge decided is that the lawsuit will be allowed to proceed as a class action. This means that instead of just one person suing the Butlers, it's "all individuals who paid money to the defendants for youth volleyball instruction through the Sports Performance program provided by or through GLV Inc. in the State of Illinois between February 27, 2013 and January 10, 2018." Having to defend a class action is typically far more expensive than a lawsuit by a single person and the stakes are much higher. Defendants generally fight very hard -- as the Butlers appear to have done -- to avoid class certification. But it is a procedural issue. In reaching this decision, the court has not yet considered the merits of the underlying lawsuit -- it just decided how the case will move forward. In the simplest of terms, the court decided that there are enough people with similar complaints that it makes sense to just have one lawsuit for all of them. And the court also decided that Mullen and her attorneys can adequately represent the interests of all the class members. At the risk of over simplification, the lawsuit starts now -- all that has been decided is how it will move forward. In other words, the lawsuit is now at the stage it would have been at a year ago if they had not made it a class action. The next thing that they'll do is notify all the class members. Everyone who falls into that group defined above ( i.e., those who paid money between 2013 and 2018) will get a notice in the mail telling them about the lawsuit. Many people have received notices like this from time to time relating to other things. I know I've received several over the years -- Ticketmaster comes to mind. Once that's done (or maybe even while that is occurring), they'll get into discovery. That's when the depositions will happen. People will be put under oath and asked about things. For the record, I'd say it is extremely unlikely that anyone will ever be charged with perjury. Unfortunately, people frequently lie in their depositions, but are very infrequently charged with perjury. And regarding whether Butler will be asked about the sexual issues, I noted that the court had this to say in the recent decision certifying the class: "Proving deceit in this case necessarily requires Mullen to show that the underlying sexual-abuse allegations against Rick Butler are true, an issue which can be resolved for the class as a whole." Without a doubt, the issue is sexual abuse will be central to the case and will be investigated in discovery. The plaintiff cannot prove that Butler committed fraud without proving the sexual assault. After discovery, I'd imagine the Butlers and their attorneys will file a motion to get the case thrown out. That will be the first time the court considers the merits of lawsuit. If that motion fails, then this potentially go to trial. This case is still a long way from going to trial. And the parties will have an opportunity to try to settle the case at pretty much any point in the process if they want to do so. Will be interesting to see what is detailed in the Notice. Hoping it is available to public soon. "The status hearing set for February 12, 2019 is advanced to January 31, 2019 at 9:30 a.m. Class counsel are directed to provide a draft class notice to defendants' counsel by no later than January 23, 2019, and defendants' counsel are directed to provide comments and objections to class counsel by January 28, 2019. Counsel are likewise directed to confer regarding the information needed to send notice. A joint status report regarding these matters is to be filed by January 30, 2019. (mk)"
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Post by dgo on Jan 22, 2019 13:11:10 GMT -5
It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a trial. But, this is an important victory for those who are suing the Butlers. What the judge decided is that the lawsuit will be allowed to proceed as a class action. This means that instead of just one person suing the Butlers, it's "all individuals who paid money to the defendants for youth volleyball instruction through the Sports Performance program provided by or through GLV Inc. in the State of Illinois between February 27, 2013 and January 10, 2018." Having to defend a class action is typically far more expensive than a lawsuit by a single person and the stakes are much higher. Defendants generally fight very hard -- as the Butlers appear to have done -- to avoid class certification. But it is a procedural issue. In reaching this decision, the court has not yet considered the merits of the underlying lawsuit -- it just decided how the case will move forward. In the simplest of terms, the court decided that there are enough people with similar complaints that it makes sense to just have one lawsuit for all of them. And the court also decided that Mullen and her attorneys can adequately represent the interests of all the class members. At the risk of over simplification, the lawsuit starts now -- all that has been decided is how it will move forward. In other words, the lawsuit is now at the stage it would have been at a year ago if they had not made it a class action. The next thing that they'll do is notify all the class members. Everyone who falls into that group defined above ( i.e., those who paid money between 2013 and 2018) will get a notice in the mail telling them about the lawsuit. Many people have received notices like this from time to time relating to other things. I know I've received several over the years -- Ticketmaster comes to mind. Once that's done (or maybe even while that is occurring), they'll get into discovery. That's when the depositions will happen. People will be put under oath and asked about things. For the record, I'd say it is extremely unlikely that anyone will ever be charged with perjury. Unfortunately, people frequently lie in their depositions, but are very infrequently charged with perjury. And regarding whether Butler will be asked about the sexual issues, I noted that the court had this to say in the recent decision certifying the class: "Proving deceit in this case necessarily requires Mullen to show that the underlying sexual-abuse allegations against Rick Butler are true, an issue which can be resolved for the class as a whole." Without a doubt, the issue is sexual abuse will be central to the case and will be investigated in discovery. The plaintiff cannot prove that Butler committed fraud without proving the sexual assault. After discovery, I'd imagine the Butlers and their attorneys will file a motion to get the case thrown out. That will be the first time the court considers the merits of lawsuit. If that motion fails, then this potentially go to trial. This case is still a long way from going to trial. And the parties will have an opportunity to try to settle the case at pretty much any point in the process if they want to do so. IANAL, but don't motions to dismiss occur BEFORE discovery? The whole idea is to avoid discovery, both from a cost standpoint and from a disclosure standpoint? Usually IME the motion to dismiss happens first, even prior to the class certification. They've already survived a motion to dismiss last year, per Court Listener. The judge ruled in favor of the plaintiffs on July 2, 2018. Motions to Dismiss (MTD) generally occur before discovery and focus on either technical issues with the complaint or a complete failure to state any viable cause of action. MTDs do not address the merits of a lawsuit -- they throw cases out due to procedural or other defects. The court is generally limited to looking at what was filed by the lawyers and seeing if it is legally sufficient to move forward. Again, it is not a decision on the merits of the lawsuit -- just a decision whether the lawsuit can move forward. This is all done before the defendant even has an obligation to answer the allegations. If the MTD is granted ( i.e., the case gets dismissed) the defendant never even answers the allegations. If the MTD is denied, the case moves forward and the defendant has to answer. In a class action such as this, the next battle usually is over class certification (which was just decided in Mullen's favor). Motions for Summary Judgment (MSJ) generally occur after discovery. Parties are able to participate in discovery (e.g., ask written questions, request documents, take depositions, etc.) to get evidence to support their case and/or poke holes through the opposition's case. At the end of discovery, parties will very often file an MSJ asking the court to consider the evidence and make a decision. At this stage, the judge is looking at the merits of the case. The judge will consider the facts and make a decision. If only the defendant has filed an MSJ, the judge is deciding whether to throw the case out ( i.e., dismiss the case) or to let it move forward. If only the plaintiff has filed a MSJ, the judge is deciding whether the plaintiff wins without a trial or to let it move forward to a trial. If both file, all those options are on the table. However, the judge is not allowed to resolve any disputes about facts in the case or decide which side he or she believes. In essence, when a party files a Motion for Summary Judgment, it is saying to the judge, "even if everything they say is true, we still should win the case." If there are any disputes about "material" facts, the judge must deny summary judgment and the case moves to a jury (or gets settled). Judges cannot decide a "he said-she said" issue; the jury gets to decide factual issues. If the case doesn't settle before then, I'd be very surprised if Butler's attorneys didn't file an MSJ. As always with such things, the above carries the risk of over-simplification that inevitably comes with an attempt to explain a process that can have many variables. What I've provided is a pretty good explanation, but doesn't address every possible nuance.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jan 22, 2019 13:15:09 GMT -5
IANAL, but don't motions to dismiss occur BEFORE discovery? The whole idea is to avoid discovery, both from a cost standpoint and from a disclosure standpoint? Usually IME the motion to dismiss happens first, even prior to the class certification. They've already survived a motion to dismiss last year, per Court Listener. The judge ruled in favor of the plaintiffs on July 2, 2018. Motions to Dismiss (MTD) generally occur before discovery and focus on either technical issues with the complaint or a complete failure to state any viable cause of action. MTDs do not address the merits of a lawsuit -- they throw cases out due to procedural or other defects. The court is generally limited to looking at what was filed by the lawyers and seeing if it is legally sufficient to move forward. Again, it is not a decision on the merits of the lawsuit -- just a decision whether the lawsuit can move forward. This is all done before the defendant even has an obligation to answer the allegations. If the MTD is granted ( i.e., the case gets dismissed) the defendant never even answers the allegations. If the MTD is denied, the case moves forward and the defendant has to answer. In a class action such as this, the next battle usually is over class certification (which was just decided in Mullen's favor). Motions for Summary Judgment (MSJ) generally occur after discovery. Parties are able to participate in discovery (e.g., ask written questions, request documents, take depositions, etc.) to get evidence to support their case and/or poke holes through the opposition's case. At the end of discovery, parties will very often file an MSJ asking the court to consider the evidence and make a decision. At this stage, the judge is looking at the merits of the case. The judge will consider the facts and make a decision. If only the defendant has filed an MSJ, the judge is deciding whether to throw the case out ( i.e., dismiss the case) or to let it move forward. If only the plaintiff has filed a MSJ, the judge is deciding whether the plaintiff wins without a trial or to let it move forward to a trial. If both file, all those options are on the table. However, the judge is not allowed to resolve any disputes about facts in the case or decide which side he or she believes. In essence, when a party files a Motion for Summary Judgment, it is saying to the judge, "even if everything they say is true, we still should win the case." If there are any disputes about "material" facts, the judge must deny summary judgment and the case moves to a jury (or gets settled). Judges cannot decide a "he said-she said" issue; the jury gets to decide factual issues. If the case doesn't settle before then, I'd be very surprised if Butler's attorneys didn't file an MSJ. As always with such things, the above carries the risk of over-simplification that inevitably comes with an attempt to explain a process that can have many variables. What I've provided is a accurate and fair explanation, but doesn't address every possible nuance. This makes sense. Thank you for the clarification. I'm going to be that discovery will be quite harmful to the Butlers. They're probably fretting quite a bit right now.
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Jan 23, 2019 0:30:13 GMT -5
Almost all the parents already knew this. It sounds like most parents didn't know, and the ones that did know were lied to about what really happened. They were told a very watered down version that included jealous people out to get him and his business, and that any relationships were after girls were of age and had left his club. If parents knew the truth and actively supported him anyway, shame on them. That is really creepy, and a good reason for USAV, AAU, JVA and the courts to step in and rectify an incredibly warped and broken situation. I wonder if Mullen's capacity for decision making will be called into question. I will not elaborate further except to state those that know KNOW what I mean. It is a very legit question and I'll be very curious to see how it pans out.
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Jan 23, 2019 0:41:07 GMT -5
To those who continue to post the comments along the lines of "almost all", "everyone", "worse kept secret", "only a google search away", etc., not true. It was not until after the 4th year of tryouts that my spouse or I heard anything about RB/SPRI. There are 10 girls on her team and in conversations with those parents I can promise you "almost all" of them were completely ignorant of his past. In conversation this weekend alone parents were still shocked to hear the depths of the allegations and even those who did know were clueless about DCFS findings from the 90s or the handwritten letters from RB to his 16/17yo victims. These were not readily available to the public until the Mullens v. butler suit filing. As others have said, do/did SPRI families know the 'truth' of the allegations? or RBs version? I am not even asking if all the allegations are true (which I believe they are), but just the depth of the allegations from the victims perspective? RB/CB willing talk to any/all parents that want to know about this? do they show these parents the letters he wrote? pages 17-20 of the civil complaint do they show the parents the DCFS report? "The administrative law judge, after reviewing all the evidence, makes the following findings of fact: 9. The appellant had sexual relationships with at least 3 players, Sarah Powers, Julie Bremner, and Christine Tuzzi, in the years they were sixteen and seventeen and he was their coach. 12. The appellant admits that he had sexual relations the girls but denies this occurred while their were minors. His denial is not credible." and the recommendations of that report? "The administrative law judge is convinced that the Department has carried the burden of proof of demonstrating by a preponderance of evidence that the appellant's actions constitute child abuse. Therefore, it is the recommended that the appellant's request for expungement from the State Central Register be denied and the case remain indicated." the findings from the 1995 USAV hearing - "committee makes the following findings of fact: Beginning in 1981, Rick Butler had unprotected sexual intercourse and subsequent physical and emotional relationship with 16 year old Sarah Powers (Barnhard)...causing her to lose her virginity - Beginning in 1984, Rick Butler had unprotected sexual intercourse and subsequent physical and emotional relationship with 16 year old Christina Brigman (Tuzi)...causing her to lose her virginity - Beginning in 1987, Rick Butler had unprotected sexual intercourse and subsequent physical and emotional relationship with 16 year old Julie Bremner...causing her to lose her virginity." It sickens me to think 'almost all' of humanity is shallow enough to know the full depths of the allegations and turn a blind eye. I believe better of my fellow human. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're full of BS or live in a cave. Erring on the side of the former, this is just a post to rehash the story for those tuning into page 90 something of this thread. You go into far too much detail to just be some parent stating they didn't know, reeks of agenda, IMHO. Blatant. Your tactics need more finesse, most users of this forum are far too savvy to not see through these type of "review" "I didn't know" fake posts. Nice try though. I swore awhile ago to start a spreadsheet on this nonsense but life is far too busy to immerse myself in this world more than I do these days.
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Post by volleyparent on Jan 23, 2019 9:00:16 GMT -5
Just passed rick butler at the Chicago High performance tryouts. Why is he allowed here? Did you get a picture so we can call out the region and USAV? I wish I had. I missed an opportunity. 😫 they separated the girls and boys. He must have stayed at the boys tryout bc I didn’t see them after the initial testing time and then the girls got moved to another gym.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 9:42:19 GMT -5
It sounds like most parents didn't know, and the ones that did know were lied to about what really happened. They were told a very watered down version that included jealous people out to get him and his business, and that any relationships were after girls were of age and had left his club. If parents knew the truth and actively supported him anyway, shame on them. That is really creepy, and a good reason for USAV, AAU, JVA and the courts to step in and rectify an incredibly warped and broken situation. I wonder if Mullen's capacity for decision making will be called into question. I will not elaborate further except to state those that know KNOW what I mean. It is a very legit question and I'll be very curious to see how it pans out. deflection and victim blaming. well done! no comment on validity of butlers story, lets just cast doubt on the victims! I believe the greater question of law is whether the Butlers were deceitful (would the common person be mislead by their statements). THAT is a valid question. Do you have this link on your profile as a blueprint on how to hijack this thread? tacit.livejournal.com/376701.html - you seem to rely heavily on this type of 'logic' in your postings.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 10:51:56 GMT -5
To those who continue to post the comments along the lines of "almost all", "everyone", "worse kept secret", "only a google search away", etc., not true. It was not until after the 4th year of tryouts that my spouse or I heard anything about RB/SPRI. There are 10 girls on her team and in conversations with those parents I can promise you "almost all" of them were completely ignorant of his past. In conversation this weekend alone parents were still shocked to hear the depths of the allegations and even those who did know were clueless about DCFS findings from the 90s or the handwritten letters from RB to his 16/17yo victims. These were not readily available to the public until the Mullens v. butler suit filing. As others have said, do/did SPRI families know the 'truth' of the allegations? or RBs version? I am not even asking if all the allegations are true (which I believe they are), but just the depth of the allegations from the victims perspective? RB/CB willing talk to any/all parents that want to know about this? do they show these parents the letters he wrote? pages 17-20 of the civil complaint do they show the parents the DCFS report? "The administrative law judge, after reviewing all the evidence, makes the following findings of fact: 9. The appellant had sexual relationships with at least 3 players, Sarah Powers, Julie Bremner, and Christine Tuzzi, in the years they were sixteen and seventeen and he was their coach. 12. The appellant admits that he had sexual relations the girls but denies this occurred while their were minors. His denial is not credible." and the recommendations of that report? "The administrative law judge is convinced that the Department has carried the burden of proof of demonstrating by a preponderance of evidence that the appellant's actions constitute child abuse. Therefore, it is the recommended that the appellant's request for expungement from the State Central Register be denied and the case remain indicated." the findings from the 1995 USAV hearing - "committee makes the following findings of fact: Beginning in 1981, Rick Butler had unprotected sexual intercourse and subsequent physical and emotional relationship with 16 year old Sarah Powers (Barnhard)...causing her to lose her virginity - Beginning in 1984, Rick Butler had unprotected sexual intercourse and subsequent physical and emotional relationship with 16 year old Christina Brigman (Tuzi)...causing her to lose her virginity - Beginning in 1987, Rick Butler had unprotected sexual intercourse and subsequent physical and emotional relationship with 16 year old Julie Bremner...causing her to lose her virginity." It sickens me to think 'almost all' of humanity is shallow enough to know the full depths of the allegations and turn a blind eye. I believe better of my fellow human. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're full of BS or live in a cave. Erring on the side of the former, this is just a post to rehash the story for those tuning into page 90 something of this thread. You go into far too much detail to just be some parent stating they didn't know, reeks of agenda, IMHO. Blatant. Your tactics need more finesse, most users of this forum are far too savvy to not see through these type of "review" "I didn't know" fake posts. Nice try though. I swore awhile ago to start a spreadsheet on this nonsense but life is far too busy to immerse myself in this world more than I do these days. Mags - Last response to you and I am blocking your ignorant posts. (on the very remote chance s/he adds anything of value in the future, can someone PM me?) Thank you. I deeply appreciate your assessment of my intelligence and/or living arrangements. Once again you add great value and much knowledge, backed up by facts as always, to a post that specifically revolves around a banned coach who has done despicable things. Nice job on shifting the focus from a serial rapist and bully to a concerned parent who has spent countless hours educating themselves on the pathetic piece of filth known as Rick Butler. I make it a point to take the time making spreadsheet/s and lists of links to news articles, court filed documents, etc., I do this so that I can speak intelligently on the subject and direct people to those sources to educate themselves. Victims should not be silenced because 'it was a long time ago'. I do this because ignorance is not bliss and it is not an excuse. Mags, maybe rather than judge me and others on this thread, and deflect the conversation from the butlers and their tactics, you can provide something of substance? But maybe your life is far to busy to be immersed in facts and truth? btw - list of links for you again, since I just rehash... www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/usa-volleyball-officials-furious-abuser-back-game-article-1.2876696www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/williamson/2017/07/27/new-volleyball-club-franklin-has-ties-coach-banned-sports-organization/514751001/www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/investigations/volleyball-coach-sues-aau-seeks-ban-of-former-coach/77-455740983www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/the-truth-will-set-you-free-jacksonville-volleyball-coach-encourages-more-women-to-come-forward/77-495946481chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-news/volleyball-group-that-coach-rick-butler-helped-form-says-hes-welcome-there/www.change.org/p/aau-uphold-zero-tolerance-for-sex-abuse-ban-rick-butler-from-coaching-volleyball?recruiter=729300086&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petitionwww.cynthiahanson.com/pdf/sexlies_volleyball.pdfwww.tmj4.com/news/i-team/parents-sue-coach-over-undisclosed-sex-assault-allegationsdurangoherald.com/articles/214477-durango-woman-demands-her-named-removed-from-banned-volleyball-coachs-gymwww.nprillinois.org/post/illinois-senate-tackles-sexual-assault-youth-sports#stream/0volleymob.com/usa-vb-ceo-davis-talks-butler-ban-in-congressional-testimony/wgntv.com/2018/02/27/volleyball-coach-rick-butler-wife-face-lawsuit-over-sex-assault-claims/wgntv.com/2018/05/15/2-women-accusing-volleyball-coach-of-sexual-abuse-testify-in-springfield/atlantapvb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/APVB-News.pdfwww.daily-journal.com/news/local/director-of-local-volleyball-club-has-controversial-past/article_48f78e5e-e8ff-53ac-98d9-a940d3ce69d6.htmlsun times coverage chicago.suntimes.com/news/accusers-of-volleyball-coach-rick-butler-to-speak-at-state-senate-hearing/chicago.suntimes.com/feature/coach-rick-butler-volleyball-players-damage-done/chicago.suntimes.com/news/volleyball-coach-rick-butler-hit-with-class-action-lawsuit-over-sex-abuse-claims/chicago.suntimes.com/news/volleyball-coach-rick-butler-booted-by-massive-amateur-athletic-union/chicago.suntimes.com/?post_type=cst_article&p=1099862chicago.suntimes.com/news/congresswoman-volleyball-coach-rick-butler-should-have-been-in-jail/chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-news/rick-butler-lawsuit-gets-contentious-with-claims-he-might-move-overseas/Mullens v. Butler lawsuit www.chicagolawbulletin.com/archives/2018/02/27/rick-butler-volleyball-class-action-2-27-18/mullen-v-butlerwww.courtlistener.com/docket/6318197/mullen-v-glv-inc/
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Post by updawg on Jan 23, 2019 10:57:35 GMT -5
Interested in an answer from a legal perspective, not emotional/moral/social justice point of view. What part of a business owners past are they required by law to notify or share with their potential customers? This lawsuit seems a bit of a stretch, though I am not a lawyer. If I eat at a restaurant and later find that there is something I don't like about the owners past, whether legal or illegal, am I entitled to a refund for the meals I've eaten there? What does the owner of a business legally have to share with its customers?
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