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Post by 5100 on Dec 10, 2018 11:04:40 GMT -5
Edit to add: I don't think there is always a huge difference between the defensive abilities of a DS and the opposite that she replaces. That's why it might work (assuming that everyone stays healthy). E.g., if Iosia had only been an opposite, I think she probably would have been ok in the back row. Okino was better but by how much? Fitzmorris was very good in the back row in high school (though not in D1 bc she lacks the experience there). Formico is better but if Fitz had always played all around at Stanford, how much better would Formico be? I do think that DSes are generally better at serve receive/floor defense than opposites, both bc they made the team bc of their digging and serve receive abilities (rather than blocking and hitting abilities) and bc that's all they focus on in college. But you do get an extra weapon by having your opposite play all the way around. That's assuming your opposite is a Nikki Taylor-type who can consistently provide offense from the back row. I guess it all depends on your personnel. In 2002, Shoji used Hedder Ilustre to DS for Nohea Tano at OPP. Although Tano was an OK back row defender, UH's system then did not include the D-set, so there was no use letting her play all around with Ilustre available. I believe Iosia would have played all around if she was a full-time opposite. Looking at the past opposites and who were DSed out: 2017 - Koelsch (sometimes replaced by Ma'afala, sometimes played all around) 2014-2016 - Taylor (played all around) 2013 - Taylor (replaced by Mendoza) 2012 - Goodman/Kastl (replaced by Maeda) 2011 - Satele (replaced by Maeda) 2010 - Satele (played all around) 2007-2009 - Otineru (played all around) 2006 - Keefe/Kaufman (replaced by Duggins) 2005 - Boogaard (played all around) 2004 - Hittle (played all around) 2003 - Tano (played all around) 2002 - Tano/Boogaard (replaced by Ilustre) |
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Post by 5100 on Dec 10, 2018 11:14:33 GMT -5
The only reason Dave kept so many DS was because it was a way to give local players a chance to play Division I volleyball. Simple as that. There were many that didn't even play much or even finish their four years. Aside from a few mainland walk on DS, most of Hawaii's defensive specialist and even scholarship liberos have been local girls. Yes, Hawaii has a great tradition with local defensive specialists... so Dave kept that going. However, it was a catch 22 at times because we'd have liberos who were outside hitters and setters in high school, which meant they had to learn their position and catch up to being Division I ready. We had some misfires in backcourt specialists over the years because of this. I rather Hawaii recruit liberos that have been liberos in high school and club. A high calibre libero is just as important to the game as a high calibre outside, middle, setter and opposite. I think Robyn will keep less DS walk ons, but go after the best liberos she can find. Also because there aren't many DS walk-ons who are clamoring to join the Wahine. Not anymore. It used to be that Dave Shoji had to cut walk-ons because there were so many. Kelly Ong was cut in 2003 before Shoji asked her back the following year. Aside from Krug and the seniors, who were the new walk-ons this season? |
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Post by baytree on Dec 10, 2018 13:27:57 GMT -5
Edit to add: I don't think there is always a huge difference between the defensive abilities of a DS and the opposite that she replaces. That's why it might work (assuming that everyone stays healthy). E.g., if Iosia had only been an opposite, I think she probably would have been ok in the back row. Okino was better but by how much? Fitzmorris was very good in the back row in high school (though not in D1 bc she lacks the experience there). Formico is better but if Fitz had always played all around at Stanford, how much better would Formico be? I do think that DSes are generally better at serve receive/floor defense than opposites, both bc they made the team bc of their digging and serve receive abilities (rather than blocking and hitting abilities) and bc that's all they focus on in college. But you do get an extra weapon by having your opposite play all the way around. I guess it all depends on your personnel. In 2002, Shoji used Hedder Ilustre to DS for Nohea Tano at OPP. Although Tano was an OK back row defender, UH's system then did not include the D-set, so there was no use letting her play all around with Ilustre available. I believe Iosia would have played all around if she was a full-time opposite. Looking at the past opposites and who were DSed out: 2017 - Koelsch (sometimes replaced by Ma'afala, sometimes played all around) 2014-2016 - Taylor (played all around) 2013 - Taylor (replaced by Mendoza) 2012 - Goodman/Kastl (replaced by Maeda) 2011 - Satele (replaced by Maeda) 2010 - Satele (played all around) 2007-2009 - Otineru (played all around) 2006 - Keefe/Kaufman (replaced by Duggins) 2005 - Boogaard (played all around) 2004 - Hittle (played all around) 2003 - Tano (played all around) 2002 - Tano/Boogaard (replaced by Ilustre) Thanks for the list. As to the highlighted, yes, it assumes that the opposite (or OH) is a back row weapon or else that she's better at passing/digging than the potential DS (plus the additional injury risk from more play time for your OH/opp is worth it). Otherwise, you'd use a DS. The real question here is whether you should go with no DSes (as proposed by wahinefan) and use all-around players instead. Would you get more points if you had good all-round players who could hit from anywhere or are you better off using DSes, even assuming that your OHes and Opp can play reasonably well in the back row (hitting or passing/digging). I don't think Hawaii has ever failed to use a DS in games but I have only been following for a few years. It would be very unconventional and, if you had 0 DSes, risky (bc what if your libero went down, was sick that game, etc.). I think it would be interesting to see it but only if you had players who were good in the back row as well as the front. I think that, for most teams, the DS would be better but I can envision teams that might be better off using no DS (though I would have at least one for a libero backup). |
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Post by staticb on Dec 10, 2018 14:04:28 GMT -5
In Hawaii, wone of the program's strengths is that their is a larger pool of vball players and more DS's--so why not use them if they pass better than the Outside Hitters? It really depends on what personnel you have. The men's game doesn't use DS's a lot due to a lack of subs available.
If you are able to (without sacrificing much ball control), you also want to split up your passing duties as much as possible and if you have the luxury, you don't want your good front row attackers passing and hitting. If they are passing, it's possible for the serve to take them out of hitting position--similarly, even at the highest levels, hitters don't hit for a higher % if they have to pass and then hit as opposed to when they are just hitting.
I generally like to follow the Russ Rose school of thought--DS everyone you can out! (I know Shoji and even John Cook seem to prefer to develop and recruit all around players though)
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 10, 2018 14:07:46 GMT -5
Edit to add: I don't think there is always a huge difference between the defensive abilities of a DS and the opposite that she replaces. That's why it might work (assuming that everyone stays healthy). E.g., if Iosia had only been an opposite, I think she probably would have been ok in the back row. Okino was better but by how much? Fitzmorris was very good in the back row in high school (though not in D1 bc she lacks the experience there). Formico is better but if Fitz had always played all around at Stanford, how much better would Formico be? I do think that DSes are generally better at serve receive/floor defense than opposites, both bc they made the team bc of their digging and serve receive abilities (rather than blocking and hitting abilities) and bc that's all they focus on in college. But you do get an extra weapon by having your opposite play all the way around. That's assuming your opposite is a Nikki Taylor-type who can consistently provide offense from the back row. I guess it all depends on your personnel. In 2002, Shoji used Hedder Ilustre to DS for Nohea Tano at OPP. Although Tano was an OK back row defender, UH's system then did not include the D-set, so there was no use letting her play all around with Ilustre available. I believe Iosia would have played all around if she was a full-time opposite. Looking at the past opposites and who were DSed out: 2017 - Koelsch (sometimes replaced by Ma'afala, sometimes played all around) 2014-2016 - Taylor (played all around) 2013 - Taylor (replaced by Mendoza) 2012 - Goodman/Kastl (replaced by Maeda) 2011 - Satele (replaced by Maeda) 2010 - Satele (played all around) 2007-2009 - Otineru (played all around) 2006 - Keefe/Kaufman (replaced by Duggins) 2005 - Boogaard (played all around) 2004 - Hittle (played all around) 2003 - Tano (played all around) 2002 - Tano/Boogaard (replaced by Ilustre) Quite an impressive memory. |
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Post by baytree on Dec 10, 2018 14:15:38 GMT -5
In Hawaii, wone of the program's strengths is that their is a larger pool of vball players and more DS's--so why not use them if they pass better than the Outside Hitters? It really depends on what personnel you have. The men's game doesn't use DS's a lot due to a lack of subs available. If you are able to (without sacrificing much ball control), you also want to split up your passing duties as much as possible and if you have the luxury, you don't want your good front row attackers passing and hitting. If they are passing, it's possible for the serve to take them out of hitting position--similarly, even at the highest levels, hitters don't hit for a higher % if they have to pass and then hit as opposed to when they are just hitting. I generally like to follow the Russ Rose school of thought--DS everyone you can out! (I know Shoji and even John Cook seem to prefer to develop and recruit all around players though) A good backrow hitter isn't going to be taken out by serving to her, at least not very often. I've seen teams try to do that but it rarely succeeds. But I think may be right about their hitting % being lower after passing the ball. I think it might work with Westerberg bc she seems a bit slow and not agile but Kathryn Plummer seems a bit slow too and I laugh when teams try that with her bc it doesn't work so they usually just gave Stanford a point. I'm the opposite with DSes. I prefer that a coach let someone play all around unless the DS is clearly better. I think it's fairer to the hitter if she has any international aspirations. OTOH, I can see how a team with several DSes would go the other direction bc players want to play in games and using DSes lets the coach play more players. |
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Post by WahineFan44 on Dec 10, 2018 14:25:05 GMT -5
Edit to add: I don't think there is always a huge difference between the defensive abilities of a DS and the opposite that she replaces. That's why it might work (assuming that everyone stays healthy). E.g., if Iosia had only been an opposite, I think she probably would have been ok in the back row. Okino was better but by how much? Fitzmorris was very good in the back row in high school (though not in D1 bc she lacks the experience there). Formico is better but if Fitz had always played all around at Stanford, how much better would Formico be? I do think that DSes are generally better at serve receive/floor defense than opposites, both bc they made the team bc of their digging and serve receive abilities (rather than blocking and hitting abilities) and bc that's all they focus on in college. But you do get an extra weapon by having your opposite play all the way around. That's assuming your opposite is a Nikki Taylor-type who can consistently provide offense from the back row. I guess it all depends on your personnel. In 2002, Shoji used Hedder Ilustre to DS for Nohea Tano at OPP. Although Tano was an OK back row defender, UH's system then did not include the D-set, so there was no use letting her play all around with Ilustre available. I believe Iosia would have played all around if she was a full-time opposite. Looking at the past opposites and who were DSed out: 2017 - Koelsch (sometimes replaced by Ma'afala, sometimes played all around) 2014-2016 - Taylor (played all around) 2013 - Taylor (replaced by Mendoza) 2012 - Goodman/Kastl (replaced by Maeda) 2011 - Satele (replaced by Maeda) 2010 - Satele (played all around) 2007-2009 - Otineru (played all around) 2006 - Keefe/Kaufman (replaced by Duggins) 2005 - Boogaard (played all around) 2004 - Hittle (played all around) 2003 - Tano (played all around) 2002 - Tano/Boogaard (replaced by Ilustre) Besides the blake fiasco, wasnt maeda the full time libero in 2011? |
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Post by WahineFan44 on Dec 10, 2018 14:28:28 GMT -5
Also hellvig follow tiffany and hawaii volleyball on instagram so Im almost positive shes confirmed
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Post by brooselee on Dec 10, 2018 21:11:23 GMT -5
Maybe Westerberg did not impress some on that video but you have got to admit that she has potential.
She looks like a stud from these club highlights:
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Post by dd2000 on Dec 10, 2018 21:31:39 GMT -5
Maybe Westerberg did not impress some on that video but you have got to admit that she has potential. She looks like a stud from these club highlights: I agree with whoever said she is ahead of where Taylor was at this stage. |
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Post by baytree on Dec 10, 2018 21:42:17 GMT -5
Maybe Westerberg did not impress some on that video but you have got to admit that she has potential. She looks like a stud from these club highlights: Even though I said she looked kinda slow and not especially agile (and I agree that she seems to have problems passing), I think she has a lot of potential. (And, as I said, Kathryn Plummer looks kinda slow and she's turning out OK.) All the incoming recruits have potential. It will be exciting to see how they all develop. Have to keep that fine line between being excited about their potential and buying into the hype (and setting expectations too high). |
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 10, 2018 21:44:40 GMT -5
Nikki Taylor Senior > Nikki Taylor junior >>>>>>>> Nikki Taylor sophomore >> Nikki Taylor freshman
Taylor made the biggest improvement from sophomore to junior year -- and it was an astounding improvement. I can barely remember Taylor as a freshman.
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Post by hapaguy on Dec 10, 2018 21:46:13 GMT -5
Maybe Westerberg did not impress some on that video but you have got to admit that she has potential. She looks like a stud from these club highlights: Westerberg is definitely better in the middle than on the left. That video of Westerberg that some are bagging on her about, she played on the left....I could be wrong but I don't believe that Robyn recruited her to play on the left.... |
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Post by baytree on Dec 10, 2018 21:56:26 GMT -5
Maybe Westerberg did not impress some on that video but you have got to admit that she has potential. She looks like a stud from these club highlights: Westerberg is definitely better in the middle than on the left. That video of Westerberg that some are bagging on her about, she played on the left....I could be wrong but I don't believe that Robyn recruited her to play on the left.... If she's going to play middle, a lot of the criticism won't apply. It won't matter much how well she plays floor defense and it won't matter at all how well she passes. I think most of the criticism was in the context of her playing all-around opposite. Even there, we haven't seen her play yet so it's premature to say if she's going to have an immediate impact or take a while to develop. I don't think anyone was really criticizing much. It seems like everyone sees a lot of potential for Westerberg and is glad that she's coming to Hawaii. |
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 10, 2018 22:20:37 GMT -5
I think everyone is excited about all the recruits coming in. The criticisms are just some Hawaii fans' way of expressing their excitement because they don't know how to show it any other way.
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