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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 23:49:04 GMT -5
There's no translation at all if they aren't even invited to compete for roster spots. If you can play, you can play. Plummer can play. Well, I completely agree with the bolded, which my second point that you didn't quote touched on, when I alluded to that right now, the NCAA --> NT pipeline doesn't really allow for players to play on the NT until after they graduate college. That's another discussion (or maybe not) but until there becomes a practical way for NCAA players to contribute to the senior NT, which IMO is a very significant systematic change, I didn't include NCAA players in my "wish list." I think Plummer is a tremendous talent and should be in the NT gym training at OPP. But I also reject the idea that it is a guarantee she is going to dominate at the international level like she does at the collegiate level and reject the idea we won't win Gold in Tokyo without her (especially in Karch's system). We've had incredible terminators who had Plummer-esque numbers (Lowe, Fawcett, Hodge) who have struggled at times at the next level. Hell, I thought Lowe was the future at the opposite position before her break (still haven't forgiven her for that). You know I'm with you when I want to see recent grads get more legitimate opportunities against top tier competition, but I think it's hyperbole to say Plummer is the key to winning Gold, at this point in time, when we haven't seen her play at the next level. If she could play this summer and we could see her play against the Serbias, Chinas, Netherlands, etc. of the world, maybe that would change my mind, but that goes back to my first paragraph - right now, it just isn't feasible or likely. Not addressing your second point. That's why I didn't quote it. But anyway, kinda making my point for me: JLP didn't know that Zhu was going to be "the key to winning Gold" either, but it didn't take a rocket surgeon to know that she possessed the potential to make a significant impact for China. Plummer also has that ability. Please note that I never said there was a "guarantee" that Plummer will dominate at the international level -- my point is that she is worth every single investment because of her ability to BECOME that kind of player. It's a cop-out to say that coaches need to see athletes play at the next level in order to know whether or not they're worth an investment. An absolute moron could make that distinction. Great coaches have the foresight to see that without having to see it. And I don't really know what to say if you don't think there's a difference between Plummer and Lowe/Fawcett/Hodge. We might have fundamental differences there. And I'm not commenting on your "wish list" team. You're obviously free to name anyone you'd like. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 0:04:48 GMT -5
There's no translation at all if they aren't even invited to compete for roster spots. If you can play, you can play. Plummer can play. Serbias, Chinas, Netherlands, etc. of the world Next time team USA will face these teams will be the Olympics. I mean they will face them at VNL and WCC, but these teams does not take VNL seriously and they won`t take the WC seriously either as they will prioritize the European Championship. In 2015 Lowe made her debut with a MVP in the GP.....we all know how she did at the World Cup and OG.....M.H.B MVP performance at VNL turned out into nothing at the WCH. So even in Plummer plays VNL and WC and wins MVP .....well just take Lowe and M.B.H as examples. Expect USA and Brazil to win Gold at VNL and WCC and VNL 2020....but do not expect USA and Brazil to win Gold in Tokyo as Serbia, Italy, China and Netherlands will be playing to win unlikely at VNL and WC. |
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Post by Disc808 on Mar 7, 2019 0:35:06 GMT -5
Remember when college players were in the gym training and some were even named alternates for the Olympics?? I just don’t get why competing for rosters and getting an education have to be mutually exclusive. Heck, remember when Karch invited Hodson to train with the Senior Team and make a Pan Am roster with USA veterans as a high schooler?
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Post by c4ndlelight on Mar 7, 2019 0:52:51 GMT -5
Ideal: S: Poulter, Carlini The problem with this (and I say that begrudgingly because it isn't a problem) is I don't think Karch will see either of them as a double sub setter. I also don't think Karch sees Hancock as a starting setter, but I bet he could see Lloyd as a double sub setter. So regardless of whether Carlini/Poulter is the best setting combination (it probably is)... it won't happen. Lloyd is not a dub sub setter... at all, and he still picked her for Rio. |
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Post by volleyguy on Mar 7, 2019 1:23:17 GMT -5
Remember when college players were in the gym training and some were even named alternates for the Olympics?? I just don’t get why competing for rosters and getting an education have to be mutually exclusive. Heck, remember when Karch invited Hodson to train with the Senior Team and make a Pan Am roster with USA veterans as a high schooler? Remember when we had a USAV CEO--flawed as he was--who knew something/anything about volleyball? |
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Post by n00b on Mar 7, 2019 6:46:29 GMT -5
It's not that Wilhite, Gibby, and Lloyd (picking on them by salience) aren't good enough to be in the gym, but it's unjust, in my opinion, that they are the Olympians over, for example, Nicole Fawcett, who is not an Olympian. It just doesn't sit well. Karch is stealing our players' deserved legacy. Fawcett plays a different position that all of those three. Bad comparison. |
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Post by n00b on Mar 7, 2019 6:50:42 GMT -5
There's no translation at all if they aren't even invited to compete for roster spots. If you can play, you can play. Plummer can play. Well, I completely agree with the bolded, which my second point that you didn't quote touched on, when I alluded to that right now, the NCAA --> NT pipeline doesn't really allow for players to play on the NT until after they graduate college. That's another discussion (or maybe not) but until there becomes a practical way for NCAA players to contribute to the senior NT, which IMO is a very significant systematic change, I didn't include NCAA players in my "wish list." I think Plummer is a tremendous talent and should be in the NT gym training at OPP. But I also reject the idea that it is a guarantee she is going to dominate at the international level like she does at the collegiate level and reject the idea we won't win Gold in Tokyo without her (especially in Karch's system). We've had incredible terminators who had Plummer-esque numbers (Lowe, Fawcett, Hodge) who have struggled at times at the next level. Hell, I thought Lowe was the future at the opposite position before her break (still haven't forgiven her for that). You know I'm with you when I want to see recent grads get more legitimate opportunities against top tier competition, but I think it's hyperbole to say Plummer is the key to winning Gold, at this point in time, when we haven't seen her play at the next level. If she could play this summer and we could see her play against the Serbias, Chinas, Netherlands, etc. of the world, maybe that would change my mind, but that goes back to my first paragraph - right now, it just isn't feasible or likely. Hmmm. I disagree with that premise. Karch chooses not to incorporate NCAA players because he is so system-based and he doesn't have the time to train them into his system. If he operated the other way and built a system around the strengths of his personnel, I think it could work. If a college athlete has an opportunity to compete in the Olympics as an undergrad, there's NO WAY any collegiate coach would get in the way of that. Whether that would mean a redshirt year or just joining the college team late in the semester. |
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Post by joetrinsey on Mar 7, 2019 8:30:47 GMT -5
Well, I completely agree with the bolded, which my second point that you didn't quote touched on, when I alluded to that right now, the NCAA --> NT pipeline doesn't really allow for players to play on the NT until after they graduate college. That's another discussion (or maybe not) but until there becomes a practical way for NCAA players to contribute to the senior NT, which IMO is a very significant systematic change, I didn't include NCAA players in my "wish list." I think Plummer is a tremendous talent and should be in the NT gym training at OPP. But I also reject the idea that it is a guarantee she is going to dominate at the international level like she does at the collegiate level and reject the idea we won't win Gold in Tokyo without her (especially in Karch's system). We've had incredible terminators who had Plummer-esque numbers (Lowe, Fawcett, Hodge) who have struggled at times at the next level. Hell, I thought Lowe was the future at the opposite position before her break (still haven't forgiven her for that). You know I'm with you when I want to see recent grads get more legitimate opportunities against top tier competition, but I think it's hyperbole to say Plummer is the key to winning Gold, at this point in time, when we haven't seen her play at the next level. If she could play this summer and we could see her play against the Serbias, Chinas, Netherlands, etc. of the world, maybe that would change my mind, but that goes back to my first paragraph - right now, it just isn't feasible or likely. Hmmm. I disagree with that premise. Karch chooses not to incorporate NCAA players because he is so system-based and he doesn't have the time to train them into his system. If he operated the other way and built a system around the strengths of his personnel, I think it could work. If a college athlete has an opportunity to compete in the Olympics as an undergrad, there's NO WAY any collegiate coach would get in the way of that. Whether that would mean a redshirt year or just joining the college team late in the semester. Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. |
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Post by agean09 on Mar 7, 2019 9:15:19 GMT -5
Mary Wise allowed Ziva Recek to leave during the season to play with the Slovenian National Team, if I recall correctly. So there’s one coach who at least a little bit values national team involvement. And that wasn’t even USA.
Edit: upon further research, I guess that may have just been during the summer.
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Post by n00b on Mar 7, 2019 9:39:37 GMT -5
Hmmm. I disagree with that premise. Karch chooses not to incorporate NCAA players because he is so system-based and he doesn't have the time to train them into his system. If he operated the other way and built a system around the strengths of his personnel, I think it could work. If a college athlete has an opportunity to compete in the Olympics as an undergrad, there's NO WAY any collegiate coach would get in the way of that. Whether that would mean a redshirt year or just joining the college team late in the semester. Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. I find this hard to believe. ‘National Team Participation’ is different than a legitimate opportunity to play in the Olympics. Were there players in college that would’ve actually had a real shot at making the 2016 roster had their coaches allowed it? Heck, very few players that were in college in Fall 2016 are even likely to make the roster in 2020. |
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Post by trainermch on Mar 7, 2019 10:10:23 GMT -5
Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. I find this hard to believe. ‘National Team Participation’ is different than a legitimate opportunity to play in the Olympics. Were there players in college that would’ve actually had a real shot at making the 2016 roster had their coaches allowed it? Heck, very few players that were in college in Fall 2016 are even likely to make the roster in 2020. Is there compensation for NT participation, thereby affecting amateur status? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 10:12:54 GMT -5
My wish list:
S: Carlini, Hancock
OH: Larson, Hill, Robinson, Foecke
MB: Akinradewo, Gibbemeyer, Ogbogu
Opp: Lowe, Plummer
L: Lake
What will likely happen:
S: Lloyd, Carlini, Hancock
OH: Larson, Hill, MBH
MB: Akinradewo, Dixon, Gibbemeyer
Opp: Lowe, Murphy
L: Robinson
I definitely think he will take three setters.
I don’t like Robinson at Libero but someone is going to have to play her out of that position.
If I were her I would not allow Karch to move her there again. It does her pro career no favors.
Someone said it....we will continue to dominate teams not a full strength and will come up short in big tournaments.
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Post by n00b on Mar 7, 2019 11:05:44 GMT -5
I find this hard to believe. ‘National Team Participation’ is different than a legitimate opportunity to play in the Olympics. Were there players in college that would’ve actually had a real shot at making the 2016 roster had their coaches allowed it? Heck, very few players that were in college in Fall 2016 are even likely to make the roster in 2020. Is there compensation for NT participation, thereby affecting amateur status? No. National Team exceptions are specifically listed in any issue that may arise. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 11:05:44 GMT -5
I find this hard to believe. ‘National Team Participation’ is different than a legitimate opportunity to play in the Olympics. Were there players in college that would’ve actually had a real shot at making the 2016 roster had their coaches allowed it? Heck, very few players that were in college in Fall 2016 are even likely to make the roster in 2020. Is there compensation for NT participation, thereby affecting amateur status? I cannot speak to the volleyball national team in particular, but there are certainly national teams who get paid. You have seen 2 fairly high profile collective bargaining episodes over the past few years. The US Women's soccer team and the US Women's hockey team have both threatened to boycott international events as negotiating tactics. I would assume volleyball is similar in how it works. As to it affecting amateur status, I think not. Or, at least, not if they accept the compensation. Again to use hockey as the example, you will always see some collegians playing on national teams in hockey. There are several women who won either gold medals or silver medals in the Olympics currently on college teams, including the goalie who stood tall in the shootout. I don't know if the NCAA allows for exemptions on the compensation front for things like the money paid from the USA Olympic Committee for winning medals. But, there are ways to retain eligibility. |
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Post by stanfordvb on Mar 7, 2019 11:24:38 GMT -5
Is there compensation for NT participation, thereby affecting amateur status? I cannot speak to the volleyball national team in particular, but there are certainly national teams who get paid. You have seen 2 fairly high profile collective bargaining episodes over the past few years. The US Women's soccer team and the US Women's hockey team have both threatened to boycott international events as negotiating tactics. I would assume volleyball is similar in how it works. As to it affecting amateur status, I think not. Or, at least, not if they accept the compensation. Again to use hockey as the example, you will always see some collegians playing on national teams in hockey. There are several women who won either gold medals or silver medals in the Olympics currently on college teams, including the goalie who stood tall in the shootout. I don't know if the NCAA allows for exemptions on the compensation front for things like the money paid from the USA Olympic Committee for winning medals. But, there are ways to retain eligibility. Athletes in sports other than volleyball will take what’s known as an “Olympic year”. Star athletes during the season matching up right before an Olympic will redhsirt a season to focus on the games. Swimmers do this very often |
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