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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 12:19:21 GMT -5
Hmmm. I disagree with that premise. Karch chooses not to incorporate NCAA players because he is so system-based and he doesn't have the time to train them into his system. If he operated the other way and built a system around the strengths of his personnel, I think it could work. If a college athlete has an opportunity to compete in the Olympics as an undergrad, there's NO WAY any collegiate coach would get in the way of that. Whether that would mean a redshirt year or just joining the college team late in the semester. Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. All about the kids. 👍🏼 |
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Post by Reach on Mar 7, 2019 12:43:19 GMT -5
Hmmm. I disagree with that premise. Karch chooses not to incorporate NCAA players because he is so system-based and he doesn't have the time to train them into his system. If he operated the other way and built a system around the strengths of his personnel, I think it could work. If a college athlete has an opportunity to compete in the Olympics as an undergrad, there's NO WAY any collegiate coach would get in the way of that. Whether that would mean a redshirt year or just joining the college team late in the semester. Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. Stanford has never had a problem send players to play on the national team. Tom, Nnamani missed matches as well I believe. |
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Post by recleague on Mar 7, 2019 13:01:54 GMT -5
Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. Stanford has never had a problem send players to play on the national team. Tom, Nnamani missed matches as well I believe. Yeah it's not that unusual for great players to do both. Nancy Metcalf redshirted in 2000(the year Nebraska won the NC) because she missed a lot of time training with USA. |
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Post by gobruins on Mar 7, 2019 13:14:32 GMT -5
Hmmm. I disagree with that premise. Karch chooses not to incorporate NCAA players because he is so system-based and he doesn't have the time to train them into his system. If he operated the other way and built a system around the strengths of his personnel, I think it could work. If a college athlete has an opportunity to compete in the Olympics as an undergrad, there's NO WAY any collegiate coach would get in the way of that. Whether that would mean a redshirt year or just joining the college team late in the semester. Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. Compare that to soccer, where players have missed the NCAA playoffs to play for Team USA in an Under-20 championship. |
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Post by joetrinsey on Mar 7, 2019 13:41:05 GMT -5
Stanford has never had a problem send players to play on the national team. Tom, Nnamani missed matches as well I believe. Yeah it's not that unusual for great players to do both. Nancy Metcalf redshirted in 2000(the year Nebraska won the NC) because she missed a lot of time training with USA. I think it was a different era. Now, believe me, I hope I'm wrong. I've had the good fortune to be a part of representing USA at the Olympics and it's truly an experience like no other. I think any collegiate player that has a shot to even train with the National Team should take that opportunity. But there's a lot of players that feel like they want to focus on their collegiate career first and put all their energy into that and then deal with the National Team when they graduate. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 14:22:03 GMT -5
We are only talking about maybe 1 or 2 players who would be under consideration for playing in international tournaments/Olympics while still in college. Just training with the NT is a separate discussion. But, in terms of making it up to the big club, in the 2019 collegiate season, the only one I feel like we're really talking about is Plummer. Maybe Rettke or Hentz. But, really, just Plummer. It's not like this is something most coaches would ever have to deal with, even at top programs. Sure, Plummer taking a year off to play with the national team in 2019 would have a dramatic impact on the college season. But, that's not happening very often.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 15:21:08 GMT -5
Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. All about the kids. 👍🏼 Absolutely there are coaches who would let their athletes miss a competition to compete in the Olympics. (Heck, the best freshman gymnast in the country was given the option to miss a meet this season so she could attend elite national training camp instead. She was able to do both, so didn't need to miss the meet -- but if a top NCAA gymnastics team were willing to have their best freshman sit out for a day for a training camp - a sport with 63 D1 teams as opposed to 334 - surely there are several volleyball coaches who would let their athletes miss a match to compete at the Olympics.) |
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Post by volleyguy on Mar 7, 2019 15:27:31 GMT -5
Hmmm. I disagree with that premise. Karch chooses not to incorporate NCAA players because he is so system-based and he doesn't have the time to train them into his system. If he operated the other way and built a system around the strengths of his personnel, I think it could work. If a college athlete has an opportunity to compete in the Olympics as an undergrad, there's NO WAY any collegiate coach would get in the way of that. Whether that would mean a redshirt year or just joining the college team late in the semester. Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. I doubt this is true, and I am certain it is not true on the men's side. The fact that you believe this is true is more of an indictment of the nature of the relationships that are being fostered (or not fostered). |
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Post by jtminion on Mar 7, 2019 16:20:05 GMT -5
Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. I doubt this is true, and I am certain it is not true on the men's side. The fact that you believe this is true is more of an indictment of the nature of the relationships that are being fostered (or not fostered). The men's NCAA season does not conflict directly with the national team schedule. You have to keep that in mind when trying to make comparisons between the men's and women's programs. The three majors (World Championships, World Cup, Olympics) all conflict with the NCAA women's season to some degree. As the years have passed, the international schedule has pushed later and later. (Or in the case of 2018, earlier AND later.) |
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Post by n00b on Mar 7, 2019 17:23:44 GMT -5
I doubt this is true, and I am certain it is not true on the men's side. The fact that you believe this is true is more of an indictment of the nature of the relationships that are being fostered (or not fostered). The men's NCAA season does not conflict directly with the national team schedule. You have to keep that in mind when trying to make comparisons between the men's and women's programs. The three majors (World Championships, World Cup, Olympics) all conflict with the NCAA women's season to some degree. As the years have passed, the international schedule has pushed later and later. (Or in the case of 2018, earlier AND later.) Many years, the Olympics would have zero overlap. Sometimes it could go into preseason or maybe even a week or two of non-conference, but rarely/never many conference matches or postseason. |
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Post by joetrinsey on Mar 7, 2019 17:44:28 GMT -5
Absolutely college coaches can and have blocked National Team participation from collegiate players. I would say the number of college coaches who would allow a player to miss even one collegiate match to play in the Olympics is so low that it might be 0. I doubt this is true, and I am certain it is not true on the men's side. The fact that you believe this is true is more of an indictment of the nature of the relationships that are being fostered (or not fostered). The men's side is a different beast in so many ways. |
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Post by jtminion on Mar 7, 2019 18:54:03 GMT -5
The men's NCAA season does not conflict directly with the national team schedule. You have to keep that in mind when trying to make comparisons between the men's and women's programs. The three majors (World Championships, World Cup, Olympics) all conflict with the NCAA women's season to some degree. As the years have passed, the international schedule has pushed later and later. (Or in the case of 2018, earlier AND later.) Many years, the Olympics would have zero overlap. Sometimes it could go into preseason or maybe even a week or two of non-conference, but rarely/never many conference matches or postseason. Point being, it would be exceedingly rare to find an NCAA athlete who is of the caliber to play zero major international events that could make an Olympic roster of 12. 2018 World Championships ended in mid-October. 2019 World Cup will end September 29th. It is a rare college coach who will allow the best player on their roster to miss the first half of conference play, possibly losing the chance at an NCAA title run based on the pieces around that star player who may be graduating. This is why you'll more likely see athletes with remaining NCAA eligibility limited to competing for Pan Am Cup roster spots. VNL starts too early - athletes in semester schools wouldn't end school until the week before VNL begins - no training time. Athletes in quarter schools wouldn't end school until something like week 4 of VNL, thus no training time & missing most of the tournament. Major competitions start/end too late - athletes would be expected to miss pre-season training at a minimum, pre-conference matches as an average, and half of conference play as a recent maximum. You'd anticipate a red-shirt year to make this happen. I don't know the NCAA rules well enough to know if national team participation forcing an athlete to burn a red-shirt year, qualifies as an exemption to the consecutive-years eligibility clock, or multiple red-shirt rules for athletes who may have red-shirted their freshman year. College coaches are not in the business of supporting the national team, outside of when it poses no conflicts - they are in the business of sustaining their own careers. Otherwise, you'd see more college athletes in the national team gym, less DS's, more development of 6 rotation outside hitters and opposites, and less usage of the double-sub / 6-2 system. |
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 7, 2019 19:33:11 GMT -5
We are only talking about maybe 1 or 2 players who would be under consideration for playing in international tournaments/Olympics while still in college. Just training with the NT is a separate discussion. But, in terms of making it up to the big club, in the 2019 collegiate season, the only one I feel like we're really talking about is Plummer. Maybe Rettke or Hentz. But, really, just Plummer. It's not like this is something most coaches would ever have to deal with, even at top programs. Sure, Plummer taking a year off to play with the national team in 2019 would have a dramatic impact on the college season. But, that's not happening very often. True. Sometimes there is a tendency here among some who assume just because someone does well in college, she will automatically do well on the NT or pro league. But they can forget that playing in a top pro league or on the NT is on another whole level above college. Not everyone can make that transition smoothly. Players of Plummer's quality is the exception rather than the rule. Still, while 1 or 2 players do not sound like much, is the current system really ideal for developing talents for the NT? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 23:17:51 GMT -5
Yeah it's not that unusual for great players to do both. Nancy Metcalf redshirted in 2000(the year Nebraska won the NC) because she missed a lot of time training with USA. I think any collegiate player that has a shot to even train with the National Team should take that opportunity. But there's a lot of players that feel like they want to focus on their collegiate career first and put all their energy into that and then deal with the National Team when they graduate. They "feel that way" because their college coaches have a vested interest in ensuring that an athlete of that caliber does not pursue national team opportunities while in college and they guide them toward that conclusion. They also "feel that way" because this NT coach has not extended invitations to compete for senior team roster spots to collegiate athletes. They're invited to train for a block or two, and then that's it. We will feel the ramifications of these decisions to neglect development for several quads to come. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 23:20:03 GMT -5
Many years, the Olympics would have zero overlap. Sometimes it could go into preseason or maybe even a week or two of non-conference, but rarely/never many conference matches or postseason. College coaches are not in the business of supporting the national team, outside of when it poses no conflicts - they are in the business of sustaining their own careers. YIKES! |
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