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Apr 10, 2019 13:17:27 GMT -5
Post by pepperbrooks on Apr 10, 2019 13:17:27 GMT -5
Because transitioning women (I think that's the right term) will probably have a decided physiological advantage over women born women. Are you sure about that? There have been policies in place for years on transitioning athletes. There are several competing in the sport at a variety of levels. Outside of one athlete in Brazil, how big of an impact have transgender athletes had on the sport so far? Are you expecting a land rush of athletes suddenly transitioning to play... women's volleyball? True, but it will continue to be a talking point, way more so in women's sports than men's.
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Apr 10, 2019 13:29:37 GMT -5
Post by stevehorn on Apr 10, 2019 13:29:37 GMT -5
This won't have much of an effect on men's sports, but will be a pretty big issue regarding women's sports going forward. Why would it be an issue regarding women's sports moving forward? If it is not an issue, then any man should be allowed to play in women's sports. Since almost everyone would not consider this fair and would not want to allow it, does the underlying issue go away when a male is still physically a male, but mentally believes he is a woman?
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Apr 10, 2019 13:36:17 GMT -5
Post by jcvball22 on Apr 10, 2019 13:36:17 GMT -5
Why would it be an issue regarding women's sports moving forward? If it is not an issue, then any man should be allowed to play in women's sports. Since almost everyone would not consider this fair and would not want to allow it, does the underlying issue go away when a male is still physically a male, but mentally believes he is a woman? Given that isn't the standard for participation in women's sports, it's irrelevant. A simple google search will give you the parameters surrounding participation as a transgender athlete.
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Apr 10, 2019 13:51:15 GMT -5
Post by stevehorn on Apr 10, 2019 13:51:15 GMT -5
If it is not an issue, then any man should be allowed to play in women's sports. Since almost everyone would not consider this fair and would not want to allow it, does the underlying issue go away when a male is still physically a male, but mentally believes he is a woman? Given that isn't the standard for participation in women's sports, it's irrelevant. A simple google search will give you the parameters surrounding participation as a transgender athlete. I know this isn't the standard for participation and wasn't saying that it should be. The fact is that you do have a subjective standard for participation in women's sports and almost certainly the standard will continue to be debated because some will consider it too lenient and some too strict. This is why it is, and likely will remain, an issue. Just because you have a current standard doesn't mean that the standard has ceased to be an issue.
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Apr 10, 2019 14:05:39 GMT -5
808empath likes this
Post by ned3vball on Apr 10, 2019 14:05:39 GMT -5
If it is not an issue, then any man should be allowed to play in women's sports. Since almost everyone would not consider this fair and would not want to allow it, does the underlying issue go away when a male is still physically a male, but mentally believes he is a woman? Given that isn't the standard for participation in women's sports, it's irrelevant. A simple google search will give you the parameters surrounding participation as a transgender athlete. Where things will be trickier is HS and club, where we are talking about minors. No one is expecting someone under 18 to take any of the transitioning steps that the NCAA requires. A number of states have enacted rules that allow a transgender player to participate based on the sex they identify with. There are no medical prerequisites. Here's a link with HS chart by state
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Apr 10, 2019 14:28:40 GMT -5
Post by gunsserguy on Apr 10, 2019 14:28:40 GMT -5
for MTF, it would be an unfair advantage to compete against biological females. The skeletal structure of the two sexes are completely different, the composition of muscle fibers in male to females are different(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4285578/), and i dont know if this would affect performance but bone density actually increases in MTF (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28945851). Now, to what extent does transitioning affect muscle capability no one is certain of yet. Studies are being designed hoping to capture this information(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6046513/), but physiological composition of muscles and skeletal frame differences can not change despite hormone treatments. I also dont think its coincidence that MTF athletes are breaking records by a decent margin. If MTF want to compete in sports, there should be a separate group consisting of just MTF athletes and biological female athletes that opt-in.
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Apr 10, 2019 15:04:54 GMT -5
Post by jcvball22 on Apr 10, 2019 15:04:54 GMT -5
Given that isn't the standard for participation in women's sports, it's irrelevant. A simple google search will give you the parameters surrounding participation as a transgender athlete. I know this isn't the standard for participation and wasn't saying that it should be. The fact is that you do have a subjective standard for participation in women's sports and almost certainly the standard will continue to be debated because some will consider it too lenient and some too strict. This is why it is, and likely will remain, an issue. Just because you have a current standard doesn't mean that the standard has ceased to be an issue.
It's not a subjective standard. USAV has set out, in accordance with international governing body guidelines, the determination for transgender participation. There have been internationally accepted guidelines on the subject for more than 10 years. Here is a link to the clarification from USAV in 2017 on the subject: www.teamusa.org/USA-Volleyball/Features/2017/April/07/USAV-Clarifies-its-Transgender-GuidelinesGiven that approximately .6% of US adults identify as transgender, we can assume for the most part, that percentage isn't going to be higher for people between the ages of 14 and 18, as the OP is asking. We are talking about a number of athletes that is unlikely to in any way significantly affect outcomes in our sport.
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Apr 10, 2019 15:36:26 GMT -5
via mobile
reader and donut like this
Post by Fight On! on Apr 10, 2019 15:36:26 GMT -5
There are two large threads about trans athletes in vball. Almost nothing new will be said here.
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Apr 10, 2019 15:38:47 GMT -5
ToddyJ likes this
Post by Wolfgang on Apr 10, 2019 15:38:47 GMT -5
My first thought when I saw "MTF" was "mean time to failure."
My second thought was, "Oh, Christ in a Zeppelin! It's probably not 'mean time to failure' which means I have to google MTF!"
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Apr 10, 2019 15:52:40 GMT -5
Post by alohavball on Apr 10, 2019 15:52:40 GMT -5
Isn’t there a Brazilian player who is transgendered who was putting up some insane numbers? As someone who is apart of the lgbtq community, even I can see why people might be hesitant to allow this. I’m a firm believer that even before ANY surgery is done, if you want to be addressed as male or female, I fully will support that and use the pronouns that you want me to use. I will fight for your rights, and march for you. I will always stand up against prejudice and injustive. but with sports; especially MTF, when does it become “fair” (I really don’t know what word to use). Is it when testotorone levels start to match what the average female has? Is it when gender assignment surgery is fully complete? Or do we allow it whenever they want? In the instance of the last one, is that really fair to the competition? It’s a situation that is going to have so many different opinions that not everyone will agree upon, and is always going to cause conflict but IMO needs to be addressed. Tiffany Perreira. She plays for Sesi-Bauru. In a QFinal game she scored 28 points and eliminated Sesc-Rio. This was the first time ever Sesc-Rio did not reach the semis. Another transgender player who's caused some controversy is Aprilia Manganang from Indonesia. Not sure what the full story was, but in a competition another country protested about this players gender.
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Apr 10, 2019 16:54:56 GMT -5
Post by donut on Apr 10, 2019 16:54:56 GMT -5
This is going to go well... again. Why? Are you going to take it on a tangent to debate a settled issue by USA Volleyball? The question is why don't you see this happening in VB? There are over 400,000 girls playing HS and club in the US. What is the percentage of transgendered by best guesses? There must be 100s if not 1000s of transgendered teens playing volleyball? Surely you are mature enough to resist posting immature jokes about it? A simple search for the term "transgender" would have revealed multiple past threads about this topic, none of which have ended well, and all of which have revealed ugly sides to some of our fellow posters. Here, for example. If you think that I'm "taking it on a tangent to debate a settled issue" or "posting immature jokes about it" I'd suggest you read through that linked thread to understand my stance.
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Apr 10, 2019 16:58:51 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 16:58:51 GMT -5
I know this isn't the standard for participation and wasn't saying that it should be. The fact is that you do have a subjective standard for participation in women's sports and almost certainly the standard will continue to be debated because some will consider it too lenient and some too strict. This is why it is, and likely will remain, an issue. Just because you have a current standard doesn't mean that the standard has ceased to be an issue.
It's not a subjective standard. USAV has set out, in accordance with international governing body guidelines, the determination for transgender participation. There have been internationally accepted guidelines on the subject for more than 10 years. Here is a link to the clarification from USAV in 2017 on the subject: www.teamusa.org/USA-Volleyball/Features/2017/April/07/USAV-Clarifies-its-Transgender-GuidelinesGiven that approximately .6% of US adults identify as transgender, we can assume for the most part, that percentage isn't going to be higher for people between the ages of 14 and 18, as the OP is asking. We are talking about a number of athletes that is unlikely to in any way significantly affect outcomes in our sport. Okay, back to my question then. If there are 0.6% of the population that are transgendered AND given the USAV has a set policy for this AND given there are 400,000 girls playing club/HS, this means there should be 2,400 MTF athletes playing VB. Does anyone think there are? Has anyone seen this in club or HS? Or is this a complete non-issue (that does not make sense because why would USAV make rules if no one is using the rules?).
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Apr 10, 2019 16:59:51 GMT -5
Post by Brutus Buckeye on Apr 10, 2019 16:59:51 GMT -5
The volleyball shorts wouldn't conceal a bulge very effectively.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Apr 10, 2019 17:02:37 GMT -5
The volleyball shorts wouldn't conceal a bulge very effectively. Ok this is Not needed. There is one thing to debate about the subject from a Scientific viewpoint, and then things like this, which are just uncalled for. If you aren't going to participate in this discussion in an Intelligent manner, you need to not participate in this thread.
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Apr 10, 2019 17:04:48 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 17:04:48 GMT -5
Why? Are you going to take it on a tangent to debate a settled issue by USA Volleyball? The question is why don't you see this happening in VB? There are over 400,000 girls playing HS and club in the US. What is the percentage of transgendered by best guesses? There must be 100s if not 1000s of transgendered teens playing volleyball? Surely you are mature enough to resist posting immature jokes about it? A simple search for the term "transgender" would have revealed multiple past threads about this topic, none of which have ended well, and all of which have revealed ugly sides to some of our fellow posters. Here, for example. If you think that I'm "taking it on a tangent to debate a settled issue" or "posting immature jokes about it" I'd suggest you read through that linked thread to understand my stance. touche. I had not seen that thread (must have actually been earning my salary during that time...). Ok. Scanned 30 pages and do not see the answer to my question on whether this is a real thing at the club/HS level or just a non issue that likely did not need regulation for the 1-2 people it affects.
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