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Post by mhscoach on Oct 11, 2019 10:38:47 GMT -5
I am positing today for a few reasons. I first want to thank Brad for everything he did for me at the Whitefish Bay tournament. Truly blown away, honored and humbled by the response of my friends in the coaching and volleyball world as I battle lymphoma. Never did lime green look so good on every team in the gym. Here is the article: www.middletontimes.com/articles/2019/10/09/volleyball-community-rallies-around-middletons-ben-whiteNow the other reason I love Brad is he is really, really good at starting conversations. This forum used to be 59 pages deep a season. Looks like Brad poked the bear. And now I'm going to play devil's advocate on the sectional final thing. I'm not going to argue about state tournament or anything anyone feels about that. When the WIAA said we were having the same schedule as the girls this year, we had to come up with ideas of how to physically do this. Part of the issue that arises is the pool of officials that are qualified to do sectionals. Our sectional final was moving to Saturday to stay the same time frame as the girls. Before you say "play on Friday" remember that football playoffs are going on at same time. That drives the boat more than anything else. So if there are 8 sectional finals in boys and 20 in girls going on at the same time, that meant around the state we needed 56 quality officials. Ready...make your list and see how long you get? Not to 56. The thought was to combine sectionals so we needed half the quality officials. Also, for years I have read on this forum and heard from coaches about how sectional finals are predetermined for almost all sports (which the WIAA does prior to the season) and sometimes it's not fair because a lower seed is hosting. For example, what if this year Appleton North was able to host the sectional final as a predetermined site, even though it's highly likely Kimberly gets the 1 seed. Or if Waukesha West hosted over CMH? For the first time ever, we are having neutral site games. No home court advantage. No homer line judges (remember the high school girl line judges in the Brook East vs Tosa East sectional final a few years ago?). Best team wins. Every other sport figures out neutral sites. Middleton has hosted sectional finals in every single division for basketball, football and baseball and every single school has figured out how to get there. I saw our gym packed this past winter when New Glarus won a sectional basketball game. Amazing atmosphere. Point is, you get what you put into something. Want to complain about it, then it's going to suck. Want to embrace it, then could be pretty cool. Our sectional final is at Sun Prairie. Would be pretty cool if both the Middleton girls and boys both made it. Bet we'd pack the gym, even though our boys team has never been there before. Thank you again for the discussions and support. I love this sport so much and want to see it continue to grow. When the WIAA gives you certain chips, you have to know how to play them. I know people in the boys world will do their best to get our sectional final played next year at 7pm. We told them we wanted it to rotate. Someone had to start at 4:30pm. I also love the forum and surprised that we don't see more discussions about players, teams and rankings...like how is Appleton North ranked 7th when they have 4 losses on the year and 3 are to Kimberly? Best to all as we hit the home stretch. Hope I'm able to be in a gym to see some of it. Sincerely, Coach White
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Post by vballman1234 on Oct 11, 2019 11:36:55 GMT -5
I am positing today for a few reasons. I first want to thank Brad for everything he did for me at the Whitefish Bay tournament. Truly blown away, honored and humbled by the response of my friends in the coaching and volleyball world as I battle lymphoma. Never did lime green look so good on every team in the gym. Here is the article: www.middletontimes.com/articles/2019/10/09/volleyball-community-rallies-around-middletons-ben-whiteNow the other reason I love Brad is he is really, really good at starting conversations. This forum used to be 59 pages deep a season. Looks like Brad poked the bear. And now I'm going to play devil's advocate on the sectional final thing. I'm not going to argue about state tournament or anything anyone feels about that. When the WIAA said we were having the same schedule as the girls this year, we had to come up with ideas of how to physically do this. Part of the issue that arises is the pool of officials that are qualified to do sectionals. Our sectional final was moving to Saturday to stay the same time frame as the girls. Before you say "play on Friday" remember that football playoffs are going on at same time. That drives the boat more than anything else. So if there are 8 sectional finals in boys and 20 in girls going on at the same time, that meant around the state we needed 56 quality officials. Ready...make your list and see how long you get? Not to 56. The thought was to combine sectionals so we needed half the quality officials. Also, for years I have read on this forum and heard from coaches about how sectional finals are predetermined for almost all sports (which the WIAA does prior to the season) and sometimes it's not fair because a lower seed is hosting. For example, what if this year Appleton North was able to host the sectional final as a predetermined site, even though it's highly likely Kimberly gets the 1 seed. Or if Waukesha West hosted over CMH? For the first time ever, we are having neutral site games. No home court advantage. No homer line judges (remember the high school girl line judges in the Brook East vs Tosa East sectional final a few years ago?). Best team wins. Every other sport figures out neutral sites. Middleton has hosted sectional finals in every single division for basketball, football and baseball and every single school has figured out how to get there. I saw our gym packed this past winter when New Glarus won a sectional basketball game. Amazing atmosphere. Point is, you get what you put into something. Want to complain about it, then it's going to suck. Want to embrace it, then could be pretty cool. Our sectional final is at Sun Prairie. Would be pretty cool if both the Middleton girls and boys both made it. Bet we'd pack the gym, even though our boys team has never been there before. Thank you again for the discussions and support. I love this sport so much and want to see it continue to grow. When the WIAA gives you certain chips, you have to know how to play them. I know people in the boys world will do their best to get our sectional final played next year at 7pm. We told them we wanted it to rotate. Someone had to start at 4:30pm. I also love the forum and surprised that we don't see more discussions about players, teams and rankings...like how is Appleton North ranked 7th when they have 4 losses on the year and 3 are to Kimberly? Best to all as we hit the home stretch. Hope I'm able to be in a gym to see some of it. Sincerely, Coach White Thank you Coach White for posting this. There are some outstanding points and while we all are not going to agree on some of these WIAA decisions...you are correct in saying "you get what you put into something". The teams this year have spent countless hours in the gym and we should support them no matter where the venues are. Quite frankly, I don't see how the crowds will be any different for the Sectional Finals then in the past. And Coach you make an excellent point about the pre-determined locations in years past. That was always silly to me.
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Post by bradk on Oct 11, 2019 16:53:43 GMT -5
Ok lets look at the changes the WIAA made and play a little point counter point here.
1. State in Green Bay - Waiting for someone to show me a good reason for this? Name another individual team state tournament hosted with another sport? 10am matches on a Thursday in Green Bay where it looks like 4 of the teams will be from the Milwaukee area. (Assuming Kimberly gets the 1 and Middleton gets 4 or 5 should either make it) Attendance for that? Only plus - 3 days, no more 2 matches in 1 day for team. In 201? Nicolet played 10 games on Championship Saturday. That is a long day.
2. Sectional finals. - I can get on board with the officials point of view. However, how happy are certain officials going to be if they have a 430 match that ends at say 6, then have to sit around for an hour doing nothing until the next one starts. They get crabby waiting 6 minutes in between matches at a tournament what are they going to do for an hour. - The timing of it. When do a majority of high school aged kids work if they have jobs. Saturday and Sunday afternoons. On a Thursday night or a Saturday night more kids available for sure on a Thursday. Are kids more likely to go to a sporting event on a Thursday or a Saturday when you can promote it all day long at school. Oh why is so and so dressed up etc. You cant play Thursday because the girls run double headers on Thursdays so once again the girls are taking priority over the boys. If boys get 7pm next year great lets see how it works. Will Boys be getting the final match at state next year? - The neutral vs home court advantage for sectionals was a push for me. Typically a team knew when they were going to be good. That year you would put in for a sectional final. I believe last year 6 of the 8 finals were held by number 1 seeds. Complete neutral sites you have never played in before is tough. Ask a team who has never played at Whitefish Bay for a dual how they did their first time playing there? It is a totally different venue then say Nicolet. Wide open spaces your sight lines are different lighting is different. I like playing in gyms I have played in before and I think players are comfortable there as well. Also boys volleyball does not get the same walk up attendance rate as Basketball, Football, or Girls Volleyball. No one randomly goes and watches a boys volleyball match unless you are in the community and have an association with that team. Last year everyone wanted to watch Nicolet Basketball play because of Jalen Johnson. No matter where they went people showed up. People are not jumping out of the chairs to go watch Parker, David, Landon, Matt etc. We are not main stream. We need to cater to who we are and allow our community to view it. - However the sites selected are not ideal at all. I live on the north side of Milwaukee. The closest sectional final to me is at Wisconsin Lutheran which is Marquette's which they have won eleventy nine straight years. I am guessing Racine/Kenosha to Waterford is a little bit of a hike as well. Why did Waukesha South get a sectional final? They are the only school to receive one that has boys volleyball? Also the schools selected have 0 chance of adding boys volleyball. The closest would probably be West Bend if they combined schools as a coop like they do in say classrooms. (If you were not aware everyone in west bend goes to same high school. Only thing they are split up for is sports).
Ok I am done now. See you tomorrow Ben. Seeding meetings this weekend. Should be interesting to see how things play out in some of the sectionals.
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Post by mkiw on Oct 12, 2019 13:43:27 GMT -5
Waukesha West won the classic 8 conference tournament in over CMH in 5. Format was best of 3 in first two rounds and best of 5 in round 3. West took 1st, CMH 2nd, Mukwonago beat KM in 4 in the 3rd/4th place match. West got mulched in set 1, nothing was really working, but after that every set was close. 5th was 16-14. CMH got touches on just about everything, rarely wasting an opportunity, and West just played an all around game. Spellman is the leader on that team but they and CMH both have great depth. If these two meet in sectionals (probably will) it’ll most likely be another bloodbath. KM has two important pieces injured, Morton is out for the season due to a back injury and Malak twisted an ankle. Schopf is looking pretty good out of the middle though. Mukwonago has a lot of nice players, definitely not a team to take lightly in playoffs. Even though the games between Muk and KM looked close, if I didn’t know anything about the two teams Muk definitely would get a higher score on the eyeball test.
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Post by mhscoach on Oct 12, 2019 15:14:46 GMT -5
Cardinal Round Robin: Middleton 4-0 Appleton North 3-1 Indian Trail 2-2 New Berlin 1-3 Nicolet 0-4
Rd 1: North def Nicolet 25-12, 25-13; Middleton def New Berlin 25-12, 25-23 Rd 2: Middleton def North 25-22, 27-25; Indian Trail def New Berlin 25-15, 25-17 Rd 3: Middleton def Nicolet 25-12, 25-21; North def Indian Trail 21-25, 25-16, 15-10 Rd 4: Middleton def Indian Trail 21-25, 25-12, 15-10; New Berlin def Nicolet 25-19, 25-20 Rd 5: North def New Berlin 25-18, 23-25, 15-11; Indian Trail def Nicolet 23-25, 25-19, 15-7
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Post by beastparent on Oct 12, 2019 19:41:22 GMT -5
Surprising how few locations sectional finals, division 1-4, are in the Milwaukee metro area. And I hope the strategy to grow the game works, but it seems that there are quite a few teams in the valley that have boys Vball already. It will take more than a change of venue to grow the game. It will take more clubs starting in areas that don't have high school teams and youth leagues like YVL as well. 5-6 years ago there were two boys grade school teams participating vs the girls at center court. I was pretty sure that Sussx was going to have a high school team when 4 years ago they had a Junior Charger team at almost every grade. Pewaukee may be next to have a HS program if they can get the football coach to go along with it. They have had really good teams the last few years.
I think the move to combine boys and girls is a cost savings thing. And I can't really blame them for it.
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Post by bradk on Oct 12, 2019 21:57:15 GMT -5
Surprising how few locations sectional finals, division 1-4, are in the Milwaukee metro area. And I hope the strategy to grow the game works, but it seems that there are quite a few teams in the valley that have boys Vball already. It will take more than a change of venue to grow the game. It will take more clubs starting in areas that don't have high school teams and youth leagues like YVL as well. 5-6 years ago there were two boys grade school teams participating vs the girls at center court. I was pretty sure that Sussx was going to have a high school team when 4 years ago they had a Junior Charger team at almost every grade. Pewaukee may be next to have a HS program if they can get the football coach to go along with it. They have had really good teams the last few years. I think the move to combine boys and girls is a cost savings thing. And I can't really blame them for it. 100% it was a cost saving move which is fine. Had they just come out and said that everyone would have been more on board with Green Bay. The WIAA coming out saying this is to grow the game and not that they are saving money is what angered most people. As I have said many times sending the tournament to Green Bay will not grow the game. Their thought is the girls AD's will see the boys game and fall in love with it and want to add it. I actually heard that come out of Stephanie's mouth.
Last year of the 12 D1/D2 teams to make girls state ( 3 D1's and all 4 D2's did not have boys volleyball). River Falls - Possible but would need to get all the big schools up that way on board, Point etc. Oconomowoc - They are a target or should be. Sun Prairie - Why they dont have it is a mystery and just graduated a D1 recruit, so if they did not add for him never will. D2' - East Troy, Little Chute, Kettle Moraine Lutheran, Moisnee. All interesting schools which could possibly support but would most likely need full conference involvement.
Also we are eliminating D3 and D4 as enrollment numbers will not support that.
Another way to look at it. Look at all the D1 schools. In order to support boys volleyball you really need numbers, you have to offset Football, Soccer, and Cross Country. Using the project football playoff teams here are the schools in D1 and D2 that do not have boys volleyball Sun Prairie Milwaukee Public School minus Golda/Reagan Green Bay Preble (already dropped it once) Bay Port (believe was part of the coop with a GB school) Hudson (no one to play) D.C Everest Eau Claire Memorial Rapids Manitowoc (Dropped it) Menomonee Falls Superior Waunakee Watertown Marshfield Holmen Hortonville Oregon Milton Lacrosse Monona Grove West Bend
Your biggest chance for growth is west of Waukesha and north up 41as you mentioned. Pewaukee, Oconomowoc, Watertown, West Bend those are your next targets. Want to grow the game, put it at Carroll University. Your next options - Getting the Big Rivers conference or VFA West on board. After that the Madison Suburbs. The Fieldhouse in Madison would be nice to host the event at.
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Post by vballman1234 on Oct 14, 2019 8:40:23 GMT -5
We (boys volleyball community) grow the game...not the WIAA. So, if it has to be in Green Bay for a few years then I don't care. I'm going to keep pushing my friends at various schools around the state to grow the game. We need to all deal with it and continue to grow the game we love.
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Post by vbzinger on Oct 14, 2019 11:04:16 GMT -5
We (boys volleyball community) grow the game...not the WIAA. So, if it has to be in Green Bay for a few years then I don't care. I'm going to keep pushing my friends at various schools around the state to grow the game. We need to all deal with it and continue to grow the game we love. Thank you! I appreciate all the good conversation about people's thoughts.. but at some point let's stop complaining and deal with it. What can do we with the cards that we're dealt. We can support each other (mad props for the fundraiser for Coach White), we can play matches with schools who have club teams and aren't fully recognized by their schools, etc...
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Post by bradk on Oct 14, 2019 12:46:42 GMT -5
Completely agree grow the game as much as possible. But the way we are going to go about growing the game is what needs to be the focus. If we have incorrect methods to improve will we lose others along the way.
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Post by spikeman4321 on Oct 15, 2019 18:40:27 GMT -5
Any news on the sectional rankings?
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Post by vballman1234 on Oct 16, 2019 10:38:59 GMT -5
Any news on the sectional rankings? According to WIAA website, there are seeding meetings still taking place today. We probably will hear the results tomorrow.
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Post by Volleyball123456 on Oct 16, 2019 12:20:03 GMT -5
Any news on the sectional rankings? According to WIAA website, there are seeding meetings still taking place today. We probably will hear the results tomorrow. Sectional 5 1. ITA 2. Horlick 3. Bradford 4. St. Cats 5. Case 6. Tremper 7. Union Grove 8. Park
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Post by khsghosts on Oct 16, 2019 14:14:38 GMT -5
Sectional 1 1. Kimberly 2. Appleton North 3. Kaukauna 4. Fond du Lac 5. Appleton West 6. Neenah 7. Appleton East 8. Notre Dame
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Post by mhscoach on Oct 16, 2019 15:21:54 GMT -5
Coaches Top 10 for week 7 (22 Ballots received)
1. Kimberly 220 (22) 2. Germantown 193 3. MUHS 174 4. Middleton 140 5. CMH 114 6. Waukesha West 112 7. Appleton North 94 8. Tosa East 64 9. Brookfield East 39 10. Indian Trail 11
Others receiving votes: Kaukauna 9 Pius 9 Appleton East 3 Cedarburg 2 Horlick 2 Kettle Moraine 1 Burlington 1 Mukwonago 1 Madison Memorial 1 New Berlin United 1
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