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Post by islandgirl on Dec 13, 2004 5:17:27 GMT -5
There are a lot of similarities between Florida and Hawai'i. They both play in a non-powerhouse conference and that is something that does affect a teams preparedness in the post-season. Hawaii moreso than Florida will play most of its matches at home and that's just the way it is. It won't be changed anytime soon and I'm just happy to see the games.
Both teams have veteran coaches, have been among the top teams for decades and are geographically far removed from the hubub of volleyball competition.
I see the point you are making, gatorattack, but they are not "losers". They both lost key players on their teams. Hawaii had a very young, inexperienced team and played remarkably well and ended beyond expectations. Florida had some growing pains but got sidetracked by an unfair tournament schedule and a very tough Stanford team or they would have made the round of sixteen at least. They have nothing to be ashamed of and I'm sure will be better for it next year. I'm sure the coaches are already working on it.
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Post by kolohekeiki on Dec 13, 2004 6:20:38 GMT -5
Wow..I hope UF Vball team does not share the same attitude....when it comes to post season tournament, the goal is to beat every team that standing in between your team and the national title. If you arrived with the attitude that it's okay to be beaten by a better team, then you'll get what u wish for. You can't afford to lose any game in the post season tournament, but you could during regular season, so why not play against some of the best teams? Your w-l record might suffer a bit but you'll get the taste and experience of playing at a higher level. It's better than coming to the tournament thinking you are all that and then wham! you been sent home early by the "better" team... I guess, being a pac-10 fan myself, i am not used to the argument that it's ok to lose in the post season tournament. All I know is Stanford, UCLA, and USC play tough schdule year in and out and the results speak for themselves. I don't recall gatorvball every saying that it was okay to lose to a better team. Gatorvball just merely stated that all their loses just came to better teams, no where in the post did he/she say that it was okay to lose to better teams. Yeah Stanford, USC, and UCLA play a tough schedule year in and year out because they play in the toughest conference in the nation with a hand full of top teams every year. Florida and Hawai`i can't control that aspect of playing in a weak conference. That is out of their control.
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Post by badger12 on Dec 13, 2004 9:06:20 GMT -5
The reason why Florida does not have a National Title is their conference schedule and there is nothing they can do about that except hope the conference gets better. If you take the Pac 10 and Big 10 they do great in the NCAA tournament because they beat up on each other. For example, Michigan and Purdue the 6th and 7th team in the Big Ten both won 1st round matches. Heck, Purdue went into the 9th ranked team in the Country and won on their home floor. Michigan State the 8th best team in the conference beat Florida A@M and Witchata State in non-Big Ten. Wisconsisn, the 4th best team in the conference is in the final 8. The same can be said for the PAC 10. My point is that Florida will be hurt by the improving SEC being a weaker conference by only playing one SEC school capable top 32 team each year.
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Post by rocket on Dec 13, 2004 10:51:50 GMT -5
It is not the early season non-conference opponents that negatively effect the level of play for Hawaii and Florida, it is their own league foes. Neither Hawaii or Florida play night in and night out the caliber of competition as the PAC 10 or Big 10. I believe both leagues would be well served to finish another week earlier with league play and add a second week of non-conference competition. And I am not talking about playing in the Twoson Univ. fun day.
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Post by GatorVball on Dec 13, 2004 11:26:34 GMT -5
Wow..I hope UF Vball team does not share the same attitude....when it comes to post season tournament, the goal is to beat every team that standing in between your team and the national title. If you arrived with the attitude that it's okay to be beaten by a better team, then you'll get what u wish for. You can't afford to lose any game in the post season tournament, but you could during regular season, so why not play against some of the best teams? Your w-l record might suffer a bit but you'll get the taste and experience of playing at a higher level. It's better than coming to the tournament thinking you are all that and then wham! you been sent home early by the "better" team... I guess, being a pac-10 fan myself, i am not used to the argument that it's ok to lose in the post season tournament. All I know is Stanford, UCLA, and USC play tough schdule year in and out and the results speak for themselves. Obviously the goal is to win every match in the postseason, but that doesn't always happen. I'm 100% sure that the Gators go into every matching, wanting to win and knowing if they play their best, they have a chance. They don't want to lose, sometimes you just aren't good enough to win. The point I'm making is, what shame is there in losing to a team that is better than you? It's not like Florida is being upset in the tournament. Go back, look at their losses in the tournament. Show me a loss against a team they should've beat? Aside from 95 vs. Texas in the regional final, I can't find one(and that was a toss up to begin with). 1994 vs. Houston? Maybe, but that Florida team lost 3 players to ACL injuries and were seriously depleted. Sorry, but I don't buy the schedule argument for 2 reasons. A tougher schedule still wouldn't have prepared them or allowed them to beat the likes of Nebraska, Stanford, Long Beach, UCLA, USC, Hawaii, etc. in the final 4's and regional finals. And 2nd, I think Florida schedules pretty good non conference foes to start the season. What hurts, and others have mentioned, is going through the course of the conference season, not having faced much competition(until this year anyways). All those 3-0 sweeps don't prepare them for the better teams and the longer matches. If you want to talk about the schedule hurting them, talk about the conference schedule that they have no control over. But to say, as the original post states, that they won't be a legit top 10 team until they schedule better non conference matches away from home, is absolutely wrong.
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Post by spongebob on Dec 13, 2004 11:42:53 GMT -5
So you kinda agree that it's the conference schedule that hurts UF in preparing for the tournament?
I think the original poster acknowledged the fact that you can't do much about your conference schedule, that's why he/she suggesting that the team needs to schedule tougher opponents for the ooc schedule, simply because they have power over that part of the scheduling.
In today's vball landscape, talent and coaching alone are not enough to help you win a national championship. Unless of course, your team's goal is to made it to the tournament and nothing more......
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Post by GatorVball on Dec 13, 2004 12:07:43 GMT -5
So you kinda agree that it's the conference schedule that hurts UF in preparing for the tournament? I think the original poster acknowledged the fact that you can't do much about your conference schedule, that's why he/she suggesting that the team needs to schedule tougher opponents for the ooc schedule, simply because they have power over that part of the scheduling. In today's vball landscape, talent and coaching alone are not enough to help you win a national championship. Unless of course, your team's goal is to made it to the tournament and nothing more...... I agree. Mary has said this for years. Until the SEC gets better and pushes them, then they won't be as prepared for the tournament as they want to be. They won't be match tough. They have always tried to schedule tough teams for the preconference and generally do play top teams. But, that's in September. It really doesn't help you come December, after you've spent the last 2 1/2 months rolling over teams with no resistance. You don't improve that way. Not much they can do about it.
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Post by spongebob on Dec 13, 2004 12:18:35 GMT -5
I must confess that UF made me a fan after watching them in the FF last year. How the heck did they beat UH is mind boggling. That team showed a lot of heart. I have the title game saved on my PC and watch em regularly. Even though my team beat them for the national title, I thought UF played real good vball with different players stepping up throughout the match to give USC a good fight. I was hoping to watch them again in the FF but I guess I have to wait till next year. Good luck next season!
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Post by ugopher on Dec 13, 2004 12:18:55 GMT -5
I think a challenging pre-season schedule helps a team's RPI more than preparing them for the NCAA tournament. While it also gives them a chance to see how they match up against tougher programs does a match in early September really prepare them for a match 3 months later? I agree with the posters that suggest conferences with historically weaker teams to schedule either a "bye" week or to have the conference schedule to end a week early. This would allow those schools to test themselves with the team that will be going to the tournament. Lots of changes can happen between September and December.
I'm not saying that UH would have done better in the tourney if they could have scheduled a non-conference match or two vs. playing the same teams in the conference tourney but it may have given them an idea of how to prepare.
Another benefit to closing out the conference season a week early - you could possibly rest a player that is sore to get them ready for the tourney.
Of course the downside is that it may be difficult to find the teams you would like since not all conferences have tournaments.
Just a thought.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Dec 13, 2004 12:23:37 GMT -5
I agree. Mary has said this for years. Until the SEC gets better and pushes them, then they won't be as prepared for the tournament as they want to be. They won't be match tough. They have always tried to schedule tough teams for the preconference and generally do play top teams. But, that's in September. It really doesn't help you come December, after you've spent the last 2 1/2 months rolling over teams with no resistance. You don't improve that way. Not much they can do about it. I liked their Thanksgiving weekend tournament that they held a couple of years ago (MVC/SEC challenge or whatever). A lot of conferences have their championships a week early, freeing up time for more matches. How many conferences were still playing that last weekend? Would be a good time to schedule some ACC/SEC matchups, for example.
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Post by GatorVball on Dec 13, 2004 12:44:42 GMT -5
I liked their Thanksgiving weekend tournament that they held a couple of years ago (MVC/SEC challenge or whatever). A lot of conferences have their championships a week early, freeing up time for more matches. How many conferences were still playing that last weekend? Would be a good time to schedule some ACC/SEC matchups, for example. They still play on Thanksgiving. They can't always get the teams they want, however. A few years ago, they got UNI(no one knew UNI would be that good, so it was a lucky break). I think that loss helped Florida get to the Final 4 that year(as did UNI not being able to host the regional). Last year, they faced the Puerto Rican National team and that helped. In years past, they've faced Pacific, UCLA, Washington, Washington State, Cal, Notre Dame, among others, during that Thanksgiving week. I think that helps to an extent, in that they play matches on back to back days against good teams. I know Mary always tries to get at least 1 top team to face them during Thanksgiving, but it doesn't always work out, as some conferences still have conference matches at that point. This year, they got Towson and St. Johh's. They were supposed to have UNC in that tournament and Mary was also gonna use the trip to NY to recruit someone(never mentioned who), but neither of those things panned out, so they were left with some less than stellar matchups, though Towson proved to be a very worthy opponent. Maybe if they could face the likes of a Pac-10 or Big-10 team during Thanksgiving, it would help. I don't know. They've been to the final 4 playing a tough non conference schedule and they've been there playing a not so tough schedule. I think it has more to do with the teams they are losing to and their conference schedule, than it does who they play out of conference. If they had played the same schedule as last year, with this team, they still wouldn't have gotten to the Final 4. I mean, they played Stanford tougher than any team in the tournament and as tough as anyone has in the last month. I don't think a few extra matches against top teams would've changed that outcome. Sure, it was an early exit, but given the draw, they did better than I expected.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Dec 13, 2004 13:24:52 GMT -5
They still play on Thanksgiving. They can't always get the teams they want, however. A few years ago, they got UNI(no one knew UNI would be that good, so it was a lucky break). Actually, they did. UNI had been building up to then, and they were expected to be a top ten team that year. Just because you didn't know it doesn't mean that others, like Mary, didn't. It was Bobbi's first year, but Iradge had prepared them well. I didn't mention that possibility because the Big 10 and Pac 10 (and Big 12) are still playing conference matches that weekend, so you can't get them. And they'll never give that up because they have such a long conference schedule already, they won't be willing to move back a week.
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 13, 2004 13:45:21 GMT -5
I have this I-can-see-the-future feeling and I do NOT see the Wahine ever winning a national championship. However, they will have successful seasons every year, will continue to lead the nation in attendance, and the fans will be faithful. But no national championships...
Same with Florida.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2004 13:47:10 GMT -5
I have this I-can-see-the-future feeling and I do NOT see the Wahine ever winning a national championship. However, they will have successful seasons every year, will continue to lead the nation in attendance, and the fans will be faithful. But no national championships... Same with Florida. To hell with that. Give me a stock. Or two.
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Post by ACE on Dec 13, 2004 13:59:53 GMT -5
I disagree. Florida always tries to schedule top teams away from home. Either at neutral sites or for true road matches. In the past 7 or 8 years, they've faced Nebraska, Stanford, Arizona, UCSB, Minnesota, USC, Penn State, UNI, Pacific, Pepperdine, Wisconsin, Illinois, KState, Ohio State, UCLA, Hawaii, Texas, among others, during the regular season. Sometimes the teams are in the top 10, other times they aren't. Just depends on the year, as schedules are made years in advance. One thing is for sure. Mary always tries to schedule tough out of conference matches, and on the road. She doesn't shy away from the competition. That said, to say that these 2 teams aren't legitimate top 10 teams, based on this season, is just ludicrous. Sorry, but both are top 10 programs, year in and year out. This season doesn't change that. I have no doubt that Florida was a sweet 16 team this year, they just got a crap draw. Did they underachieve or have a disappointing season, by Florida standards? Yes, but that was bound to happen. I don't think anyone expected them to duplicate or surpass what they did last year. I certainly don't think their schedule this year is why they lost to Stanford in the 2nd round or why they lost twice to UT or to Minnesota or to Texas. That was the least of it. In fact, had they not faced those teams, they might've actually gone down to FAMU in the 1st round or to UGA in the SEC Tournament. As for Florida's failures in the final 4's in years past, I also don't think it has to do with their schedule. Sure, they might've had some closer matches, instead of all the 3-0 sweeps, but I can say that every time they lost in the Final 4, they lost to a much better team. No shame in that at all. Had nothing to do with the schedule. I understand the frustration and the disappointment of this season, but to say that Florida needs to do a better job scheduling is incorrect. They do what they can and go on the road when they can. I agree Gator, Both teams conference schedule certainly don't help, but it's not going to change. It's beyond Coaches/players. Because the past 2 years, they both were a Final Four team. They may not have won but they certainly beat out other teams from tougher conferences to get there.
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