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Post by gatorattack on Dec 12, 2004 23:44:30 GMT -5
We love both teams but in order to be a legitimate top 10 team....
Both teams played marginal opponents and had false sense of how good they really were. So instead of finding the weaknesses earlier so they could be fixed, they find them out when it is too late.
These teams need to play top 10 opponents on the road so they can feel and experience real competition. When playing tougher teams at home in Hawaii or in Florida , I believe there is a significant advantage that helps the record but not the team as much as playing the same tough team away.
These are coaching decisions that need to be re evaluated.
Moderator Note: Removed an "o.'
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Post by spongebob on Dec 12, 2004 23:52:39 GMT -5
I agree..that's why pac10 teams in general do well in post season campaigns..even when they were thought to have a down year, they placed 3 teams in the final four...but i am not sure there is much a coach can do in term of scheduling except for OOC matches. Unless you are in a tough conference, u r just out of luck. Just my 2 cents worth.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2004 0:07:21 GMT -5
Not going to happen here in Hawaii. This volleyball program is a money maker and the University will not allow a potential home game that will bring in thousands slip away. What would be cool is if somehow UH could join the PAC 10 FOR VOLLEYBALL....
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Post by Gorf on Dec 13, 2004 0:13:41 GMT -5
The Wahine could be helped a fair amount next season (and beyond) if the WAC conference does actually decide to drop the conference tournament from the schedule as one of the articles posted in another thread said that Dave Shoji was going to try to convince the conference representatives to do as the AVCA convention next week.
That would give them room to schedule some tough matches on the road late in the season without having to put together a series of 5 matches in the same week on the road as they ended up with this year.
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Post by GatorVball on Dec 13, 2004 0:16:34 GMT -5
I disagree. Florida always tries to schedule top teams away from home. Either at neutral sites or for true road matches. In the past 7 or 8 years, they've faced Nebraska, Stanford, Arizona, UCSB, Minnesota, USC, Penn State, UNI, Pacific, Pepperdine, Wisconsin, Illinois, KState, Ohio State, UCLA, Hawaii, Texas, among others, during the regular season. Sometimes the teams are in the top 10, other times they aren't. Just depends on the year, as schedules are made years in advance. One thing is for sure. Mary always tries to schedule tough out of conference matches, and on the road. She doesn't shy away from the competition.
That said, to say that these 2 teams aren't legitimate top 10 teams, based on this season, is just ludicrous. Sorry, but both are top 10 programs, year in and year out. This season doesn't change that. I have no doubt that Florida was a sweet 16 team this year, they just got a crap draw. Did they underachieve or have a disappointing season, by Florida standards? Yes, but that was bound to happen. I don't think anyone expected them to duplicate or surpass what they did last year. I certainly don't think their schedule this year is why they lost to Stanford in the 2nd round or why they lost twice to UT or to Minnesota or to Texas. That was the least of it. In fact, had they not faced those teams, they might've actually gone down to FAMU in the 1st round or to UGA in the SEC Tournament.
As for Florida's failures in the final 4's in years past, I also don't think it has to do with their schedule. Sure, they might've had some closer matches, instead of all the 3-0 sweeps, but I can say that every time they lost in the Final 4, they lost to a much better team. No shame in that at all. Had nothing to do with the schedule. I understand the frustration and the disappointment of this season, but to say that Florida needs to do a better job scheduling is incorrect. They do what they can and go on the road when they can.
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Post by DiggUH on Dec 13, 2004 0:18:00 GMT -5
Not going to happen here in Hawaii. This volleyball program is a money maker and the University will not allow a potential home game that will bring in thousands slip away. What would be cool is if somehow UH could join the PAC 10 FOR VOLLEYBALL.... Why just volleyball?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2004 0:29:36 GMT -5
Cause we would get KILLED in every other sport..lol...
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Dec 13, 2004 0:32:33 GMT -5
Florida loss in 5 to Stanford, a Final Four team who is playing as well as anybody in the country. Hawaii's only loss of the season also came in 5 games, to a pretty good Wisconsin team on the road in the regionals. I disagree with the initial topic of the thread, it's clearly overstated. I don't think scheduling had anything to do with Hawaii's loss. What it came down to was Wisconsin made the 2 plays it had to to win the match, Hawai'i did not. The fact that the Wahine came back to tie the match at 2 games a piece after being down 2 games to nothing, on the road no less in front of a pro Badger crowd clearly puts a hole in the scheduling theory. Hawai'i served out up 13-11 in the fifth game. It was little mistakes like that ended up being factors in the match. The scheduling theory might hold some vailidity if both teams were swept or had losses in early rounds to less than good teams but neither was the case.
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Post by spongebob on Dec 13, 2004 0:39:47 GMT -5
I disagree with the sentiments that scheduling has nothing to do with team's performance in the post season. If you want to be the best, you must play against the best. That way, you know what it takes to be a champion.
Case in point :
UF had one of the most succesful campaign in 2003 and who were on the schedule? #1 USC, #7 UCSB, #4 Stanford, #15 KSU,#20 Minnesota. They beat #2 Hawaii in the national semi finals and lost to USC in the final.
In 2003, UF played #4 Minnesota and #15 KSU..that's it..the result? well you know.....
Case in point #2: NU coach thinks the reason why they lost to USC is because they are not used to such a long match..all season long, they have won in 3 sets because of the weaker opponents. When pushed to the 5th game, their started making mental errors and simply tired..allowing 5 loss USC team to beat them
I don't think scheduling is the ultimate factor in determining how good your team is going to be. There's recruiting, coaching, conditoning,discipline and mental toughness etc etc. But it definetely merit a good look.
Good luck to UF vball next year.
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Post by GatorVball on Dec 13, 2004 0:48:00 GMT -5
Yes, they played Minnesota and KState and what happened? They lost in 5 to Stanford. So, you're telling me, if they scheduled another top team or 2, they would've beat Stanford? I mean, come on. It's not like they lost to chopped liver.
In fact, over the last 10 years, every loss Florida has had in the postseason has come to a team that was just better. It had nothing to do with Florida playing a weaker schedule and everything to do with Florida just not being as talented or as good. I don't buy this schedule argument for a second.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Dec 13, 2004 0:54:41 GMT -5
I disagree with the sentiments that scheduling has nothing to do with team's performance in the post season. If you want to be the best, you must play against the best. That way, you know what it takes to be a champion. Case in point : UF had one of the most succesful campaign in 2003 and who were on the schedule? #1 USC, #7 UCSB, #4 Stanford, #15 KSU,#20 Minnesota. They beat #2 Hawaii in the national semi finals and lost to USC in the final. In 2003, UF played #4 Minnesota and #15 KSU..that's it..the result? well you know..... The result is they lost in 5 to a hot Cardinal team, nothing to be ashamed of. You can't compare last year's end result with this year's end result. Florida had a veteran team last season, probably the best Gator team ever. Two different teams entirely.
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Post by spongebob on Dec 13, 2004 1:02:16 GMT -5
Yes, they played Minnesota and KState and what happened? They lost in 5 to Stanford. So, you're telling me, if they scheduled another top team or 2, they would've beat Stanford? I mean, come on. It's not like they lost to chopped liver. TEXT had in the postseason has come to a team TEXT. It had nothing to do with Florida playing a weaker schedule and everything to do with Florida just not being as talented or as good. I don't buy this schedule argument for a second. Wow..I hope UF Vball team does not share the same attitude....when it comes to post season tournament, the goal is to beat every team that standing in between your team and the national title. If you arrived with the attitude that it's okay to be beaten by a better team, then you'll get what u wish for. You can't afford to lose any game in the post season tournament, but you could during regular season, so why not play against some of the best teams? Your w-l record might suffer a bit but you'll get the taste and experience of playing at a higher level. It's better than coming to the tournament thinking you are all that and then wham! you been sent home early by the "better" team... I guess, being a pac-10 fan myself, i am not used to the argument that it's ok to lose in the post season tournament. All I know is Stanford, UCLA, and USC play tough schdule year in and out and the results speak for themselves.
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Post by spongebob on Dec 13, 2004 1:05:42 GMT -5
[quote author= BiK link=board=general&thread=1102913070&start=10#0 date=1102917281] The result is they lost in 5 to a hot Cardinal team, nothing to be ashamed of. You can't compare last year's end result with this year's end result. Florida had a veteran team last season, probably the best Gator team ever. Two diffrent teams entirely.[/quote] The same can be said of Stanford, USC and Minnesota but they made back to FF. All 3 teams has struggled all season long and prolly have more in their loss column than UF..but look where they are now...
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Dec 13, 2004 1:10:47 GMT -5
The same can be said of Stanford, USC and Minnesota but they made back to FF. All 3 teams has struggled all season long and prolly have more in their loss column than UF..but look where they are now... Florida lost 3 All Americans after last season, so did Hawai'i. Stanford returned a bulk of its lineup including Ogonna Nnamani. SC returned Candelas, Burdine, and Adams. Minnesota returned everybody but Busse. Hawai'i and to a lesser extent Florida started new players in new positions so its not the same situation. Hawai'i was also undefeated against the PAC 10 this season 3-0. ;D
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Post by pineapple on Dec 13, 2004 1:35:07 GMT -5
We love both teams but in order to be a legitimate top 10 team.... Both teams played marginal opponents and had false sense of how good they really were. So instead of finding the weaknesses earlier so they could be fixed, they find them out when it is too late. These teams need to play top 10 opponents on the road so they can feel and experience real competition. When playing tougher teams at home in Hawaii or in Florida , I believe there is a significant advantage that helps the record but not the team as much as playing the same tough team away. These are coaching decisions that need to be re evaluated. I disagree with the first part of your post. Just because hawaii lost to Wisconsin doesn't mean they were not legit top 10. As far as the second part of your post, this is true for all teams. But it has no bearing on whether Florida or Hawaii was a legitimate top 10. All of the other top 10 lost too. USC, which beat Nebraska in the regional and which will be in the Final Four, lost to lowly Washington State. Minnesota, which will be in the Final Four lost to Wisconsin also in 5 games like Hawaii. Using your logics, these teams, therefore, are not top 10 and don't belong in the Final Four. Unless you can come up with a better reason than merely losing one, two or three or even four games, your argument that Florida and Hawaii were not top ten teams is left dangling. Hawaii and Florida just didn't make it to the Final Four. Why can't you leave it at that?
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