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Post by jay on Feb 23, 2020 0:05:49 GMT -5
If you use the less technical definition of OH2 to mean the OH with the superior defensive skills as opposed to positional alignment in the rotation them MBH is an OH1. Larson, Hill, and Krob are all OH2's for their club teams.
The matchups for the highly anticipated but uncertain rematch between Vakif and Imoco would be as follows"
Egonu vs Haak MBH vs Sylla Hill vs Gabi Robin vs Rasic Folie vs Gunes Woloz vs Maja De Gennaro vs Orge
In their first meeting this year at the CWC, without MBH, Imoco stole a come from behind fifth set overcoming over 8 set points based on the play of Hill and Egonu.
Now if we could just see this rematch in front of 12000 fans in Berlin it would be tops. That's assuming of course that the corona virus now hitting Northern Italy in the heart of the Italian League towns does not cancel the crucial end of the season.
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 23, 2020 22:54:41 GMT -5
Also ace35 ....the player "in question" you speak of is Tijana Boskovic. Why not say who you are speaking of? I am sorry friend but I think you are letting your own personal bias for your country peep through here. I mean...we all hate it when our teams lose but injuries and illnesses happen. It's part of life and part of sport. That doesn't mean a system is flawed or dumb because your team/favorite athlete(s) struggle with injury or illness. Because as soon as I said "their best player" it would have been obvious to anyone who have watched any Vitra game who that is...unless you have some other candidate? Btw, I don't know if you know this, but "letting your own personal bias for your country" is not the only reason one could have for disagreeing with you on any particular issue, including this. And FYI, saying someone is blinded by their nationalism is generally considered bad form, especially if coming out of nowhere, in an otherwise civil discourse. Something to keep in mind for the future... You're right. I edited (added something) to my comment on your post. I apologize. I had a particularly bad day and I let my arrogance and annoyance at something not even related to this thread, this site, or you as a member of this community manifest into that utter garbage reply to your post. I'm 100% out of line. I read into something that just simply wasn't there. I let it spoil in my head and I warped your intentions into some fabricated nonsense. Not cool or mature on my part. I will definitely not respond in that manner ever again. I hope to continue to discuss things with you in a civil manner and will never use that same argument tactic again. It's clearly insulting and not just bad form but despicable form. I must beg your forgiveness. I lost my way. I'm so sorry. Thanks for hearing me out.
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 23, 2020 22:57:57 GMT -5
Is MBH considered US OH2? If I were to put forth an observation...I think MBH and Robinson are OH1's and Larson and Hill are OH2's. At least in the USA gym. MBH is the only one playing OH1 in her pro league. All of the others are OH2's. I do however think that all 4 of them are capable of fulfilling either role interchangeably. Which is pretty awesome.
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Post by ace35 on Feb 24, 2020 5:35:41 GMT -5
Because as soon as I said "their best player" it would have been obvious to anyone who have watched any Vitra game who that is...unless you have some other candidate? Btw, I don't know if you know this, but "letting your own personal bias for your country" is not the only reason one could have for disagreeing with you on any particular issue, including this. And FYI, saying someone is blinded by their nationalism is generally considered bad form, especially if coming out of nowhere, in an otherwise civil discourse. Something to keep in mind for the future... You're right. I edited (added something) to my comment on your post. I apologize. I had a particularly bad day and I let my arrogance and annoyance at something not even related to this thread, this site, or you as a member of this community manifest into that utter garbage reply to your post. I'm 100% out of line. I read into something that just simply wasn't there. I let it spoil in my head and I warped your intentions into some fabricated nonsense. Not cool or mature on my part. I will definitely not respond in that manner ever again. I hope to continue to discuss things with you in a civil manner and will never use that same argument tactic again. It's clearly insulting and not just bad form but despicable form. I must beg your forgiveness. I lost my way. I'm so sorry. Thanks for hearing me out. Apology accepted. Let's move on.
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 24, 2020 11:10:01 GMT -5
So what do ya'll think? Are we headed towards a Vakifbank vs. Conegliano super final? I feel like that is the most likely scenario.
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Post by donut on Feb 24, 2020 14:51:48 GMT -5
Is MBH considered US OH2? If I were to put forth an observation...I think MBH and Robinson are OH1's and Larson and Hill are OH2's. At least in the USA gym. MBH is the only one playing OH1 in her pro league. All of the others are OH2's. I do however think that all 4 of them are capable of fulfilling either role interchangeably. Which is pretty awesome. Larson played OH1 in China this last season. She also played OH1 the previous season with Eczacibasi with KYK playing OH2, and IIRC, she played OH1 opposite Kosheleva. Since London, she's really played OH1 more than OH2, both for club and country. It really just goes to show that the traditional OH1/OH2 allotment doesn't always ring true. It's so much more than "more terminal" = OH1 and "better ball control" = OH2. That being said, if we're going to use the "traditional" classifications, calling KRob an OH1 is a stretch. I've said this a few times, but I think posters are putting way too much stock into the VNL and World Cup last summer, where she performed very well, but not against top-level competition. If you watch her play in Turkey (especially against the top teams), it appears she's been brought back down to Earth a bit. I'm not saying she hasn't improved offensively (and maybe the USA offense is just her bread and butter), but I don't think one good summer against B-level competition wipes out her offensive struggles, which are appearing again during this club season. And I'm saying all of this as a Husker fan - I love KRob's game. Just for reference, against the other top 3 teams in the Turkish League this season (Vakif, Eczacibasi and Galtasaray) in both CEV and Turkish League play, Kelsey is hitting .167, with 2.32 kills/set.
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 24, 2020 15:26:08 GMT -5
If I were to put forth an observation...I think MBH and Robinson are OH1's and Larson and Hill are OH2's. At least in the USA gym. MBH is the only one playing OH1 in her pro league. All of the others are OH2's. I do however think that all 4 of them are capable of fulfilling either role interchangeably. Which is pretty awesome. Larson played OH1 in China this last season. She also played OH1 the previous season with Eczacibasi with KYK playing OH2, and IIRC, she played OH1 opposite Kosheleva. Since London, she's really played OH1 more than OH2, both for club and country. It really just goes to show that the traditional OH1/OH2 allotment doesn't always ring true. It's so much more than "more terminal" = OH1 and "better ball control" = OH2. That being said, if we're going to use the "traditional" classifications, calling KRob an OH1 is a stretch. I've said this a few times, but I think posters are putting way too much stock into the VNL and World Cup last summer, where she performed very well, but not against top-level competition. If you watch her play in Turkey (especially against the top teams), it appears she's been brought back down to Earth a bit. I'm not saying she hasn't improved offensively (and maybe the USA offense is just her bread and butter), but I don't think one good summer against B-level competition wipes out her offensive struggles, which are appearing again during this club season. And I'm saying all of this as a Husker fan - I love KRob's game. Just for reference, against the other top 3 teams in the Turkish League this season (Vakif, Eczacibasi and Galtasaray) in both CEV and Turkish League play, Kelsey is hitting .167, with 2.32 kills/set. I think you have a point that the USA system is Robinson's bread and butter. Thanks for posting the stats.....can't argue with those. I also think Thompson will be more lethal in the faster system too provided she is given the correct height when being set. These sky balls Naz is launching her way aren't doing her any favors.
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Post by donut on Feb 24, 2020 17:47:19 GMT -5
Larson played OH1 in China this last season. She also played OH1 the previous season with Eczacibasi with KYK playing OH2, and IIRC, she played OH1 opposite Kosheleva. Since London, she's really played OH1 more than OH2, both for club and country. It really just goes to show that the traditional OH1/OH2 allotment doesn't always ring true. It's so much more than "more terminal" = OH1 and "better ball control" = OH2. That being said, if we're going to use the "traditional" classifications, calling KRob an OH1 is a stretch. I've said this a few times, but I think posters are putting way too much stock into the VNL and World Cup last summer, where she performed very well, but not against top-level competition. If you watch her play in Turkey (especially against the top teams), it appears she's been brought back down to Earth a bit. I'm not saying she hasn't improved offensively (and maybe the USA offense is just her bread and butter), but I don't think one good summer against B-level competition wipes out her offensive struggles, which are appearing again during this club season. And I'm saying all of this as a Husker fan - I love KRob's game. Just for reference, against the other top 3 teams in the Turkish League this season (Vakif, Eczacibasi and Galtasaray) in both CEV and Turkish League play, Kelsey is hitting .167, with 2.32 kills/set. I think you have a point that the USA system is Robinson's bread and butter. Thanks for posting the stats.....can't argue with those. I also think Thompson will be more lethal in the faster system too provided she is given the correct height when being set. These sky balls Naz is launching her way aren't doing her any favors. All other things constant, most players technically should be more lethal in a faster system. The USA system was also Murphy's bread and butter. I think you could say the same for Hill and MBH as well. All 3 of these players experienced a "peak" (Murphy more-so than the other two) where they dominated under the USA system when they were first introduced, but then couldn't maintain that level of play because of 1) scouting and 2) reliance on said fast system, which meant when the system broke down, our players didn't know how to score OOS or with slower/higher balls. I expect something similar will happen with Robinson. It's not a good thing if our players go overseas and think "well, I need a faster set to score." I understand that every player likes different sets/has different strengths, but it's an issue when that mindset is at a systematic level and it's going to stunt their growth as a player. Hell, even as fans, we look at a player struggling and say "well, if only they had a faster set! Wish they had gone to Italy!" Talented players should be able to adjust to their club teams, and not expect their setters/coaches to run "USA fast." Thompson is on a top 10 club team in the world, getting set by a legendary setter. Even if she is getting set high balls by Naz (which I don't really think is true), it'll be monumental for her career to learn how to hit those balls. We shouldn't be engraining in her that low and fast is the only way to go.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 12:23:23 GMT -5
Fenerbache vs Novara & Scandicci vs Ecza have been postponed due to the coronavirus. Modena vs Ajaccio(France) in the CEV Cup have also been postponed. www.cev.eu/News.aspx?NewsID=30482&ID=5
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Cmd12
Sophomore
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Post by Cmd12 on Mar 1, 2020 17:47:59 GMT -5
I think you have a point that the USA system is Robinson's bread and butter. Thanks for posting the stats.....can't argue with those. I also think Thompson will be more lethal in the faster system too provided she is given the correct height when being set. These sky balls Naz is launching her way aren't doing her any favors. All other things constant, most players technically should be more lethal in a faster system. The USA system was also Murphy's bread and butter. I think you could say the same for Hill and MBH as well. All 3 of these players experienced a "peak" (Murphy more-so than the other two) where they dominated under the USA system when they were first introduced, but then couldn't maintain that level of play because of 1) scouting and 2) reliance on said fast system, which meant when the system broke down, our players didn't know how to score OOS or with slower/higher balls. I expect something similar will happen with Robinson. It's not a good thing if our players go overseas and think "well, I need a faster set to score." I understand that every player likes different sets/has different strengths, but it's an issue when that mindset is at a systematic level and it's going to stunt their growth as a player. Hell, even as fans, we look at a player struggling and say "well, if only they had a faster set! Wish they had gone to Italy!" Talented players should be able to adjust to their club teams, and not expect their setters/coaches to run "USA fast." Thompson is on a top 10 club team in the world, getting set by a legendary setter. Even if she is getting set high balls by Naz (which I don't really think is true), it'll be monumental for her career to learn how to hit those balls. We shouldn't be engraining in her that low and fast is the only way to go. true. we saw this in London in a few matches where both Hooker and Tom would come in for fast sets and they were literally undiggable. but they also loved tempo sets and could do well with a high ball. this new system doesnt allow for that. how many times have we seen our tall hitters awkwardly try to adjust to a high ball just to tip or off speed it or even just sail it long. our hitters need to adapt and utilize their 6' + frames like the hitters who are 5'10" + do
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Post by gb77 on Mar 2, 2020 20:29:30 GMT -5
Whether a 2-match system (where only the second one is really important) is more fair than a 1-match elimination is certainly at least highly debatable, but in trying to make compromise and reach middle ground between the time constraints and fairness, they bungled both of them, creating a system that is arguably not any more fair but takes double the amount of time. And despite what you say, the first match IS really pointless, which was perfectly illustrated by .. (anecdotal not statistical evidence)But it is more fair because each team gets a home game...? Which is also important for shared revenue purposes. I can guarantee you that all the lower seeded teams are glad to get a home-away matchup rather than just traveling to their opponents' court for a single eliination game. It seems that your real issue that you have is with 3-set wins being valued equally with 4-set wins, though this is how most leagues do it, with only 5-set wins differentiated points-wise. I can see your point there but also don't think it's practical to differentiate... snipIMO green font points far outweigh red ones. CEV leagues are entertainment run like a business, not like the olympics & team owners are much more interested in prestigious home matches & making money. when matches are played on neutral courts then you can argue about fairness & time. when players are unionized or are otherwise able to limit their annual match demands then you could also argue about time.
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Post by gb77 on Mar 2, 2020 20:41:45 GMT -5
Fenerbache vs Novara & Scandicci vs Ecza have been postponed due to the coronavirus. Modena vs Ajaccio(France) in the CEV Cup have also been postponed. www.cev.eu/News.aspx?NewsID=30482&ID=5glad to read it's not all postponed as i have some time to watch moscow & carlini
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Post by maplespear on Mar 3, 2020 5:01:37 GMT -5
Because as soon as I said "their best player" it would have been obvious to anyone who have watched any Vitra game who that is...unless you have some other candidate? Btw, I don't know if you know this, but "letting your own personal bias for your country" is not the only reason one could have for disagreeing with you on any particular issue, including this. And FYI, saying someone is blinded by their nationalism is generally considered bad form, especially if coming out of nowhere, in an otherwise civil discourse. Something to keep in mind for the future... You're right. I edited (added something) to my comment on your post. I apologize. I had a particularly bad day and I let my arrogance and annoyance at something not even related to this thread, this site, or you as a member of this community manifest into that utter garbage reply to your post. I'm 100% out of line. I read into something that just simply wasn't there. I let it spoil in my head and I warped your intentions into some fabricated nonsense. Not cool or mature on my part. I will definitely not respond in that manner ever again. I hope to continue to discuss things with you in a civil manner and will never use that same argument tactic again. It's clearly insulting and not just bad form but despicable form. I must beg your forgiveness. I lost my way. I'm so sorry. Thanks for hearing me out. Vulnerability on VT ? I'm impressed. Brene Brown would be so proud of you.
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Post by gb77 on Mar 3, 2020 11:03:12 GMT -5
acestream - vakif vs dinamo 720p acestream://62ef7e82275b9f50a51b6dd19123e460f68e678a 576p acestream://18d1a552850b84066428312358a7ddfe9204e076
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Post by jay on Mar 3, 2020 11:34:05 GMT -5
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