|
Post by slxpress on Dec 21, 2023 13:09:51 GMT -5
I’m not sure what you mean by this. Yes, there has always been boundary pushing, but there have always been some programs setting the edge. There were always boosters supporting especially talented players and their families. The oil men of Brownwood were famous for giving jobs to parents of talented players which helped make Gordon Wood the winningest coach in Texas high school football. Plano decided to construct 9th/10th grade schools that fed into massive senior highs to maximize the number of teens thst would come out for football. Jim Tatum and Bud Wilkinson paid veterans returning from WWII to play for OU and set a record for the longest winning streak. OU, Oklahoma State both began paying players in Texas larger sums to come play for them, and then SMU and A&M began emulating them. There was always under the table recruiting in basketball, and then Sonny Vaccaro sent it into the stratosphere by establishing AAU shoe networks for Nike, then Reebok, then adidas, based on the massive financial importance of NBA endorsements as proven by Michael Jordan. Texas helped push the edge in commercializing college sports starting in the 80s and 90s and gathering steam afterwards to become a revenue generating juggernaut. Alabama was primarily responsible for ushering in the paid unofficial visits for football, and the uncommitable offer. I’ve never known Jim Harbaugh to be involved in under the table payments, but I do know he had a flagrant disregard for other recruiting rules. Michigan has long been known as a program that pushes the boundaries in stealing signs, to the point TCU used it against them in their playoff game. There’s now publicly documented proof of it. To say many programs do it to one degree or another is likely accurate. To dismiss what Michigan was doing as something everyone is doing seems like a rationalization to me. I will say for me personally trying to steal signs seems fair game to me, but it’s still against the rules. Poaching right now in football and basketball is widespread, and it’s not just colleges contacting players. It’s the other way around, too. NIL is huge business. I bet the NIL payroll for football and basketball at Texas right now is somewhere close to $20 million per year. I bet the volleyball payroll barely breaks $200k, and that’s still a gargantuan number for women’s volleyball outside of Nebraska, which dwarfs that. I think the main difference right now is that we’re on an unsustainable track, specifically in football. I don’t know where or when it ends, but it won’t be pretty. There will be a trickle down effect in volleyball, especially as more money and eyeballs are attracted to the sport, but I still believe poaching is a lot more limited than it is in other major college sports, even though it’s certainly happening. This wasn’t specific to any team or even any individual sport. Just a generalization Yeah, I know. I wanted you to give more specifics as to what you meant.
|
|
|
Post by mln59 on Dec 21, 2023 13:10:17 GMT -5
I think the main difference right now is that we’re on an unsustainable track, specifically in football. I don’t know where or when it ends, but it won’t be pretty.
|
|
|
Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Dec 21, 2023 13:21:56 GMT -5
considering it was on your home Court it was pretty much a beat down. And Nebraska fan showed way more class. For the most part, the Nebraska fans are a classy group. I am surprised that they haven’t revoked your Big Red Card yet because you have to be an embarrassment to them. Nebraska fans… the call is coming from within your house. Trust me! We would revoke his Big Red Card if we could. He is most certainly not a good representation of a Husker fan, or as a human being for that matter.
|
|
|
Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Dec 21, 2023 13:35:02 GMT -5
Bud started following JE’s IG account👀 Holiday calls him a horses a$$ with no honor. Ay2013 calls John Dutton to report horse stealing. This is pure gold!!
|
|
|
Post by biodogtexas on Dec 21, 2023 15:20:51 GMT -5
Any method of communication is prohibited, direct or indirect, no matter how many people it goes through. players are allowed to talk to players all they want. But if a player is communicating on behalf of a coach, it's prohibited. Contacting a club coach to pass word to a player is prohibited. Any line of communication, no matter how convoluted, that includes a coach and a player at another school is prohibited.
However, how in the world is anybody ever possibly going to enforce that rule? If as tree falls in the middle of the piney woods of east Texas, who's going to hear it all the way over in Austin? Yeah, it happened, but no one's there to see it and nobody particularly cares enough to go looking. It's like speeding. Pretty much everyone is doing it, to some extent, because the only thing stopping you is your own honor code. The only question is how egregiously you do it and if you do it just so happen to get caught.
My favorite is paying for unofficial visits. In football that's been a thing since the late 2000s when people would put together a van full of top prospects and tour around the country getting paid to bring them to different campuses, and it's simply blown out of control since then. If you're not paying for multiple visits for players - for orientations, for Friday Night Light type events, for visits to camps, barbeques, various home games - you're simply not in the game for the best prospects any more. The NCAA has so little they can actually enforce. Their big one remains practicing when you're not supposed to be, and recruiting during quiet periods. Outside of that there's very little they truly try to enforce any more. They're certainly not enforcing anything involving tampering. At some point someone may be upset and turn a coach/program in, but until that happens and there's compelling evidence of it, there's no way we're going to see anything done. Look at the NCAA trying to crack down on the whole one transfer rule. They're already in a court battle about it, and they've agreed not to enforce it until the final ruling comes down, although they've said they're going to enforce it retroactively if they win. We're in a an unsustainable model right now for collegiate athletics. Don't know when or how it's going to change, or what form it will take, but like they said in the movie Coctail, "The party doesn't end until it ends badly." Things like that have alwys been said, but following football, we still get told stories about visits falling through because kids can't find transportation when their parents are unavaliable for whatever reason that day. I've opined many times about the issues with the NCAA. Ultimately, it just following a universal rule of life. Eventually, things get too big and unmanageable or too profitable for things to remain the same way it always had. College Sports, government, video games, nerd culture, etc.
|
|
|
Post by biodogtexas on Dec 21, 2023 15:22:05 GMT -5
Any method of communication is prohibited, direct or indirect, no matter how many people it goes through. players are allowed to talk to players all they want. But if a player is communicating on behalf of a coach, it's prohibited. Contacting a club coach to pass word to a player is prohibited. Any line of communication, no matter how convoluted, that includes a coach and a player at another school is prohibited.
However, how in the world is anybody ever possibly going to enforce that rule? If as tree falls in the middle of the piney woods of east Texas, who's going to hear it all the way over in Austin? Yeah, it happened, but no one's there to see it and nobody particularly cares enough to go looking. It's like speeding. Pretty much everyone is doing it, to some extent, because the only thing stopping you is your own honor code. The only question is how egregiously you do it and if you do it just so happen to get caught.
So basically everyone(coaches and players) has a buffer or intermediary and no one puts anything in text or email or in writing of any type. And nothing is inherently promised. Just something along the lines of , if this player becomes available we may be interested. The ncaa is so much fun. It’s like the mob with how they communicate. Generally, yes, exactly that.
|
|
|
Post by biodogtexas on Dec 21, 2023 15:27:31 GMT -5
So basically everyone(coaches and players) has a buffer or intermediary and no one puts anything in text or email or in writing of any type. And nothing is inherently promised. Just something along the lines of , if this player becomes available we may be interested. The ncaa is so much fun. It’s like the mob with how they communicate. I think this kind of stuff has always gone on in every sport. Everyone pushing the limits to see what they can get away with to gain some adv. I think the difference now is it’s become way more obvious when it use to try and be hidden better in past. For instance the whole Michigan football thing. There is zero chance they were the only school doing that. They just got caught. I would be willing to bet most the top programs with the money and means have done similar stuff People, at all levels and across all corners od the sport, still have their own honor code (and compliance departments ... and budget constraints). There's not as much rule-breaking as many people allege. Stuff like what michigan was doing is definitely extremely uncommon.
|
|
|
Post by biodogtexas on Dec 21, 2023 15:36:02 GMT -5
I think this kind of stuff has always gone on in every sport. Everyone pushing the limits to see what they can get away with to gain some adv. I think the difference now is it’s become way more obvious when it use to try and be hidden better in past. For instance the whole Michigan football thing. There is zero chance they were the only school doing that. They just got caught. I would be willing to bet most the top programs with the money and means have done similar stuff I’m not sure what you mean by this. Yes, there has always been boundary pushing, but there have always been some programs setting the edge. There were always boosters supporting especially talented players and their families. The oil men of Brownwood were famous for giving jobs to parents of talented players which helped make Gordon Wood the winningest coach in Texas high school football. Plano decided to construct 9th/10th grade schools that fed into massive senior highs to maximize the number of teens thst would come out for football. Jim Tatum and Bud Wilkinson paid veterans returning from WWII to play for OU and set a record for the longest winning streak. OU, Oklahoma State both began paying players in Texas larger sums to come play for them, and then SMU and A&M began emulating them. There was always under the table recruiting in basketball, and then Sonny Vaccaro sent it into the stratosphere by establishing AAU shoe networks for Nike, then Reebok, then adidas, based on the massive financial importance of NBA endorsements as proven by Michael Jordan. Texas helped push the edge in commercializing college sports starting in the 80s and 90s and gathering steam afterwards to become a revenue generating juggernaut. Alabama was primarily responsible for ushering in the paid unofficial visits for football, and the uncommitable offer. I’ve never known Jim Harbaugh to be involved in under the table payments, but I do know he had a flagrant disregard for other recruiting rules. Michigan has long been known as a program that pushes the boundaries in stealing signs, to the point TCU used it against them in their playoff game. There’s now publicly documented proof of it. To say many programs do it to one degree or another is likely accurate. To dismiss what Michigan was doing as something everyone is doing seems like a rationalization to me. I will say for me personally trying to steal signs seems fair game to me, but it’s still against the rules. Poaching right now in football and basketball is widespread, and it’s not just colleges contacting players. It’s the other way around, too. NIL is huge business. I bet the NIL payroll for football and basketball at Texas right now is somewhere close to $20 million per year. I bet the volleyball payroll barely breaks $200k, and that’s still a gargantuan number for women’s volleyball outside of Nebraska, which dwarfs that. I think the main difference right now is that we’re on an unsustainable track, specifically in football. I don’t know where or when it ends, but it won’t be pretty. There will be a trickle down effect in volleyball, especially as more money and eyeballs are attracted to the sport, but I still believe poaching is a lot more limited than it is in other major college sports, even though it’s certainly happening. As a Plano alum, that's not exactly accurate. That was done for cost-cutting more than anything else. The benefits for athletics of a largely student body, split over multiple campuses, were kind of just used to sell the idea to athletics people so they would have no reason not to be on board.
|
|
|
Post by slxpress on Dec 21, 2023 15:45:00 GMT -5
I’m not sure what you mean by this. Yes, there has always been boundary pushing, but there have always been some programs setting the edge. There were always boosters supporting especially talented players and their families. The oil men of Brownwood were famous for giving jobs to parents of talented players which helped make Gordon Wood the winningest coach in Texas high school football. Plano decided to construct 9th/10th grade schools that fed into massive senior highs to maximize the number of teens thst would come out for football. Jim Tatum and Bud Wilkinson paid veterans returning from WWII to play for OU and set a record for the longest winning streak. OU, Oklahoma State both began paying players in Texas larger sums to come play for them, and then SMU and A&M began emulating them. There was always under the table recruiting in basketball, and then Sonny Vaccaro sent it into the stratosphere by establishing AAU shoe networks for Nike, then Reebok, then adidas, based on the massive financial importance of NBA endorsements as proven by Michael Jordan. Texas helped push the edge in commercializing college sports starting in the 80s and 90s and gathering steam afterwards to become a revenue generating juggernaut. Alabama was primarily responsible for ushering in the paid unofficial visits for football, and the uncommitable offer. I’ve never known Jim Harbaugh to be involved in under the table payments, but I do know he had a flagrant disregard for other recruiting rules. Michigan has long been known as a program that pushes the boundaries in stealing signs, to the point TCU used it against them in their playoff game. There’s now publicly documented proof of it. To say many programs do it to one degree or another is likely accurate. To dismiss what Michigan was doing as something everyone is doing seems like a rationalization to me. I will say for me personally trying to steal signs seems fair game to me, but it’s still against the rules. Poaching right now in football and basketball is widespread, and it’s not just colleges contacting players. It’s the other way around, too. NIL is huge business. I bet the NIL payroll for football and basketball at Texas right now is somewhere close to $20 million per year. I bet the volleyball payroll barely breaks $200k, and that’s still a gargantuan number for women’s volleyball outside of Nebraska, which dwarfs that. I think the main difference right now is that we’re on an unsustainable track, specifically in football. I don’t know where or when it ends, but it won’t be pretty. There will be a trickle down effect in volleyball, especially as more money and eyeballs are attracted to the sport, but I still believe poaching is a lot more limited than it is in other major college sports, even though it’s certainly happening. As a Plano alum, that's not exactly accurate. That was done for cost-cutting more than anything else. The benefits for athletics of a largely student body, split over multiple campuses, were kind of just used to sell the idea to athletics people so they would have no reason not to be on board. Alright. Well, that’s certainly been a motivation for many school districts to keep their high schools big. Plano’s solution of building 9th/10th grade schools instead of multiple 4 year high schools was extremely unusual, and when I asked a person who was involved in the bond issuances at the time he told me being competitive in football was a major consideration. I picked on Plano, but I could have named a dozen school districts that wanted to split the football participation as little as possible.
|
|
|
Post by biodogtexas on Dec 21, 2023 15:53:09 GMT -5
As a Plano alum, that's not exactly accurate. That was done for cost-cutting more than anything else. The benefits for athletics of a largely student body, split over multiple campuses, were kind of just used to sell the idea to athletics people so they would have no reason not to be on board. Alright. Well, that’s certainly been a motivation for many school districts to keep their high schools big. Plano’s solution of building 9th/10th grade schools instead of multiple 4 year high schools was extremely unusual, and when I asked a person who was involved in the bond issuances at the time he told me being competitive in football was a major consideration. I picked on Plano, but I could have named a dozen school districts that wanted to split the football participation as little as possible. Plano was definitely a bit of a trailblazer in that regard, and like i said, it was used preemptively pacify resistance, but the cost-savings on real-estate, construction, STAFFING, resources, etc were all the driving factors. That being said, it's becoming extremely common, especially in the form of "freshman centers". Plano at least added new high schools when it really needed to, building Plano West Senior High in 1999. That was Plano's 3rd High School. Some school districts won't even do that... [cough] Allen [Cough]
|
|
|
Post by slxpress on Dec 21, 2023 16:05:27 GMT -5
Alright. Well, that’s certainly been a motivation for many school districts to keep their high schools big. Plano’s solution of building 9th/10th grade schools instead of multiple 4 year high schools was extremely unusual, and when I asked a person who was involved in the bond issuances at the time he told me being competitive in football was a major consideration. I picked on Plano, but I could have named a dozen school districts that wanted to split the football participation as little as possible. Plano was definitely a bit of a trailblazer in that regard, and like i said, it was used preemptively pacify resistance, but the cost-savings on real-estate, construction, STAFFING, resources, etc were all the driving factors. That being said, it's becoming extremely common, especially in the form of "freshman centers". Plano at least added new high schools when it really needed to, building Plano West Senior High in 1999. That was Plano's 3rd High School. Some school districts won't even do that... [cough] Allen [Cough] Well, also Plano isn’t the same power it was in the 80s when it was one of - if not THE - dominant program in Texas for a while. I wasn’t actually trying to pick on Plano. I just knew some muckety mucks there at the time. My point was more about this has been going on forever and taken all kinds of different forms. Honestly I agree with everything you’re posting way more than disagreeing with any of it.
|
|
|
Post by biodogtexas on Dec 21, 2023 16:31:35 GMT -5
Plano was definitely a bit of a trailblazer in that regard, and like i said, it was used preemptively pacify resistance, but the cost-savings on real-estate, construction, STAFFING, resources, etc were all the driving factors. That being said, it's becoming extremely common, especially in the form of "freshman centers". Plano at least added new high schools when it really needed to, building Plano West Senior High in 1999. That was Plano's 3rd High School. Some school districts won't even do that... [cough] Allen [Cough] Well, also Plano isn’t the same power it was in the 80s when it was one of - if not THE - dominant program in Texas for a while. I wasn’t actually trying to pick on Plano. I just knew some muckety mucks there at the time. My point was more about this has been going on forever and taken all kinds of different forms. Honestly I agree with everything you’re posting way more than disagreeing with any of it. You're fine, no worries. But that athletic prowess is long gone and I'm slightly bitter... kind of like a Nebraska football fan. Since Plano West was built, Plano hasn't really done much of anythng. Not a whole lot of success in anything since I got there in the late 2000s. It's nowhere close to where it was in the 80s/90s like you say... before I hit elementary school.
|
|
|
Post by Longhorn20 on Dec 21, 2023 16:54:31 GMT -5
CJ just started following Carlson’s sister. Does anyone know if she is visiting Texas right now?
|
|
|
Post by horns1 on Dec 21, 2023 17:20:57 GMT -5
CJ just started following Carlson’s sister. Does anyone know if she is visiting Texas right now? Just saw that. So, who is Kalin Carlson? High school, college, etc.?
|
|
|
Post by stevehorn on Dec 21, 2023 17:27:27 GMT -5
Well, also Plano isn’t the same power it was in the 80s when it was one of - if not THE - dominant program in Texas for a while. I wasn’t actually trying to pick on Plano. I just knew some muckety mucks there at the time. My point was more about this has been going on forever and taken all kinds of different forms. Honestly I agree with everything you’re posting way more than disagreeing with any of it. You're fine, no worries. But that athletic prowess is long gone and I'm slightly bitter... kind of like a Nebraska football fan. Since Plano West was built, Plano hasn't really done much of anythng. Not a whole lot of success in anything since I got there in the late 2000s. It's nowhere close to where it was in the 80s/90s like you say... before I hit elementary school. I have to say that Plano's dropoff is due primarily to other factors besides enrollment. The last time I saw their enrollments (been 2-3 years), all three Plano schools were over 5000 students and were 3 of the top five enrollments in the state. Only Allen was larger.
|
|