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Post by 25or624 on Oct 1, 2023 22:32:17 GMT -5
Comparing Michigan and UT Austin would be a more reasonable argument, not Wisconsin. one measure is US News rankings. Among public universities, UT Austin is # 9, and Wisconsin is #12. You might say “on par” with UT, but few would say better. I didn't know that using an objectively reasonable standard is allowed on VT! Good to know for future reference ... |
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Post by hookem24 on Oct 1, 2023 22:32:43 GMT -5
Comparing Michigan and UT Austin would be a more reasonable argument, not Wisconsin. one measure is US News rankings. Among public universities, UT Austin is # 9, and Wisconsin is #12. You might say “on par” with UT, but few would say better. True. And Niche has UT at #6 among public schools and Wisconsin at #14. I think in almost all publications UT Austin beats Wisconsin. Still a really great school! But just not necessarily on the same level of selectiveness and academic prestige as UT. |
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Post by slxpress on Oct 1, 2023 23:03:37 GMT -5
one measure is US News rankings. Among public universities, UT Austin is # 9, and Wisconsin is #12. You might say “on par” with UT, but few would say better. True. And Niche has UT at #6 among public schools and Wisconsin at #14. I think in almost all publications UT Austin beats Wisconsin. Still a really great school! But just not necessarily on the same level of selectiveness and academic prestige as UT. It’s the same level. If you’re citing US News and World Report and Niche to say that UT is on a different level than Wisconsin I think you’re making a real reach. They’re both very good academic public institutions. If you want to say that I erred in saying that Wisconsin is possibly better, that’s fine. But they’re in the same tier. In any case, in the context of the Spears’ recruitment it’s certainly a silly argument to say she should choose either Texas or Wisconsin because the overall academic prestige of one school or the other is an overwhelming advantage. That was my only point. Picking that part of my post apart to say I’m understating UT’s academics may make sense to you, but it doesn’t to me. |
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Post by USC✌🏼 on Oct 1, 2023 23:16:32 GMT -5
[ br] Yes she took her official visit. She was there with Mullen and Suliane All three of them took pictures with USC inform Wait how do you know? Did I miss a picture on instagram? Two of USCs commits who were there with them posted pictures on their social media. |
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Post by hookem24 on Oct 1, 2023 23:36:32 GMT -5
True. And Niche has UT at #6 among public schools and Wisconsin at #14. I think in almost all publications UT Austin beats Wisconsin. Still a really great school! But just not necessarily on the same level of selectiveness and academic prestige as UT. It’s the same level. If you’re citing US News and World Report and Niche to say that UT is on a different level than Wisconsin I think you’re making a real reach. They’re both very good academic public institutions. If you want to say that I erred in saying that Wisconsin is possibly better, that’s fine. But they’re in the same tier. In any case, in the context of the Spears’ recruitment it’s certainly a silly argument to say she should choose either Texas or Wisconsin because the overall academic prestige of one school or the other is an overwhelming advantage. That was my only point. Picking that part of my post apart to say I’m understating UT’s academics may make sense to you, but it doesn’t to me. When tiers are mentioned, they are almost always on different tiers. UT is always mentioned with the likes of UVA, UMich, UNC.. Wisconsin is the tier right below with UIUC, UGA, etc. It’s alright to be wrong sometimes!  Either way, it won’t be about academics for Cari’s commitment. But that’s definitely a plus for UT against some of the others in the running! |
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Post by slxpress on Oct 1, 2023 23:45:42 GMT -5
It’s the same level. If you’re citing US News and World Report and Niche to say that UT is on a different level than Wisconsin I think you’re making a real reach. They’re both very good academic public institutions. If you want to say that I erred in saying that Wisconsin is possibly better, that’s fine. But they’re in the same tier. In any case, in the context of the Spears’ recruitment it’s certainly a silly argument to say she should choose either Texas or Wisconsin because the overall academic prestige of one school or the other is an overwhelming advantage. That was my only point. Picking that part of my post apart to say I’m understating UT’s academics may make sense to you, but it doesn’t to me. When tiers are mentioned, they are almost always on different tiers. UT is always mentioned with the likes of UVA, UMich, UNC.. Wisconsin is the tier right below with UIUC, UGA, etc. It’s alright to be wrong sometimes! Either way, it won’t be about academics for Cari’s commitment. But that’s definitely a plus for UT against some of the others in the running! You want to cite some of these tiers? Because #6 to #14 and #9 to #12 do not sound like different tiers to me. I’m wrong often. I said Helmers was left handed earlier today when it’s Tomkinson. That’s just on this board. But I do not agree that I’m wrong when I say both UT and Wisconsin are highly respected academic public institutions with no real appreciable difference between them, especially in the context of Cari Spears’ recruitment, which to me is the only context that matters, since that’s the context in which I was using it. Nonetheless, it doesn’t matter to me if you want to declare some kind of victory in your argument here. I’m not looking to win or lose. But I also do not feel like you’ve made a compelling argument that UT’s academics are somehow in a different class than Wisconsin’s. You’ve simply stated that’s the case and then said “I’m right and you’re wrong.” Which is fine with me. |
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Post by hookem24 on Oct 2, 2023 0:10:26 GMT -5
When tiers are mentioned, they are almost always on different tiers. UT is always mentioned with the likes of UVA, UMich, UNC.. Wisconsin is the tier right below with UIUC, UGA, etc. It’s alright to be wrong sometimes! Either way, it won’t be about academics for Cari’s commitment. But that’s definitely a plus for UT against some of the others in the running! You want to cite some of these tiers? Because #6 to #14 and #9 to #12 do not sound like different tiers to me. I’m wrong often. I said Helmers was left handed earlier today when it’s Tomkinson. That’s just on this board. But I do not agree that I’m wrong when I say both UT and Wisconsin are highly respected academic public institutions with no real appreciable difference between them, especially in the context of Cari Spears’ recruitment, which to me is the only context that matters, since that’s the context in which I was using it. Nonetheless, it doesn’t matter to me if you want to declare some kind of victory in your argument here. I’m not looking to win or lose. But I also do not feel like you’ve made a compelling argument that UT’s academics are somehow in a different class than Wisconsin’s. You’ve simply stated that’s the case and then said “I’m right and you’re wrong.” Which is fine with me. An easy tier delineation (which you just provided for me). A T10 public school vs a T20 public school. Easy! I’m not going to go into the trenches explaining why UT’s academics are above Wisconsin’s — first, because it’s obvious, and second, because it’s easily accessible for you to look up for yourself. You're such an interesting poster, slxpress. |
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Post by slxpress on Oct 2, 2023 0:16:50 GMT -5
You want to cite some of these tiers? Because #6 to #14 and #9 to #12 do not sound like different tiers to me. I’m wrong often. I said Helmers was left handed earlier today when it’s Tomkinson. That’s just on this board. But I do not agree that I’m wrong when I say both UT and Wisconsin are highly respected academic public institutions with no real appreciable difference between them, especially in the context of Cari Spears’ recruitment, which to me is the only context that matters, since that’s the context in which I was using it. Nonetheless, it doesn’t matter to me if you want to declare some kind of victory in your argument here. I’m not looking to win or lose. But I also do not feel like you’ve made a compelling argument that UT’s academics are somehow in a different class than Wisconsin’s. You’ve simply stated that’s the case and then said “I’m right and you’re wrong.” Which is fine with me. An easy tier delineation (which you just provided for me). A T10 public school vs a T20 public school. Easy! I’m not going to go into the trenches explaining why UT’s academics are above Wisconsin’s — first, because it’s obvious, and second, because it’s easily accessible for you to look up for yourself. You're such an interesting poster, slxpress. So don’t go into the trenches. I’ve looked it up in the past. Again, in the context of this discussion, I feel fine with what I said. You do not. I don’t feel compelled to do research as to why you’re right. I don’t even understand that conceit. You’ve just made up your own tiers, based on the Niche and USNWR rankings. Is someone else utilizing these tiers? Who else is actually saying Texas is a tier 1 public university and Wisconsin is a tier 2 university? Anyone? |
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Post by hookem24 on Oct 2, 2023 1:16:23 GMT -5
An easy tier delineation (which you just provided for me). A T10 public school vs a T20 public school. Easy! I’m not going to go into the trenches explaining why UT’s academics are above Wisconsin’s — first, because it’s obvious, and second, because it’s easily accessible for you to look up for yourself. You're such an interesting poster, slxpress. So don’t go into the trenches. I’ve looked it up in the past. Again, in the context of this discussion, I feel fine with what I said. You do not. I don’t feel compelled to do research as to why you’re right. I don’t even understand that conceit. You’ve just made up your own tiers, based on the Niche and USNWR rankings. Is someone else utilizing these tiers? Who else is actually saying Texas is a tier 1 public university and Wisconsin is a tier 2 university? Anyone? Top 10 and Top 20 is a very commonly used tier system. Just like T14 for law schools. Thanks! |
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 2, 2023 1:28:19 GMT -5
This is a good sign, no? I thought she already took her official visit during the Stanford match? Or was this it? Both Spears and Harvey we’re here on unofficial visits. Does "unofficial" visit even mean anything in today's NIL world? We all know boosters are paying for these athletes to come on recruiting trips. |
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 2, 2023 1:37:47 GMT -5
I think you’re understating the academics at Wisconsin. It’s more than a solid public institution. It’s one of the best public schools in the country. Okay! I know your posting habits well enough to know you won’t change your mind or be open to other opinions/facts so I won’t give you a reply. Just know that the statement “on par or better” is wildly untrue. I agree with sixpress, Wisconsin and UT-Austin are in the same academic tier. These days, other than Cal, I don't think there is much difference in academic reputation for a number of the big flagship state schools in the wealthier states, ESPECIALLY when it comes to undergrad - including UCLA and Michigan (who used to be in a tier above the other big state schools. If anything, I think the assumption that Wisconsin isn't on par with UT-Austin academically is probably because of your regional bias. |
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Post by slxpress on Oct 2, 2023 1:40:57 GMT -5
Both Spears and Harvey we’re here on unofficial visits. Does "unofficial" visit even mean anything in today's NIL world? We all know boosters are paying for these athletes to come on recruiting trips. I don’t know what NIL has to do with it. The term unofficial visit lost all meaning to me in the late 2000s when Alabama started abusing the term in football and everyone started following suit. There is a difference in how much wining and dining is done. Unofficial visits are used to forge relationships by getting them on campus as much as possible. Official visits are used to smother them with attention and give them the red carpet treatment. Unofficial visits are not usually as big a factor in other sports. For example, men’s basketball doesn’t utilize it nearly as much, mostly because shoe relationships and under the table money always mattered a lot more for the biggest recruits - yes, even more than football, historically. Jordan’s relationship with Nike changed the calculus in terms of how much a basketball player’s net endorsement value was worth compared to a football player. Because volleyball recruiting traditionally was over at such a young age, multiple unofficial visits outside of camps was never really a thing. Even in this year the lion’s share of the top 2025 recruits are already committed, so it’s only the rare holdouts that unofficial visits are even a factor. Having said all that, I’m with you in terms of unofficial visits hardly being on these players or their families’ dime. I just don’t believe that. Especially with the nod nod wink wink attitude the NCAA has taken with a known abuse of the dynamic for 15 years now. If it’s not going to be enforced it’s a tacit admission it’s okay. That’s the way it is. But it has nothing to do with NIL, really. That’s another dynamic added on top of it. |
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Post by slxpress on Oct 2, 2023 1:44:52 GMT -5
Okay! I know your posting habits well enough to know you won’t change your mind or be open to other opinions/facts so I won’t give you a reply. Just know that the statement “on par or better” is wildly untrue. I agree with sixpress, Wisconsin and UT-Austin are in the same academic tier. These days, other than Cal, I don't think there is much difference in academic reputation for a number of the big flagship state schools in the wealthier states, ESPECIALLY when it comes to undergrad - including UCLA and Michigan (who used to be in a tier above the other big state schools. If anything, I think the assumption that Wisconsin isn't on par with UT-Austin academically is probably because of your regional bias. Well, and hookem24 is emotionally invested in the argument. It’s persinally important to him, otherwise why take such a strong exception to what was really a pretty innocuous position on my part that the relative academics of Texas and Wisconsin would not be a factor in Spear’s recruitment? It’s extremely important to him that Texas be acknowledged as clearly superior than Wisconsin in this regard in ways it’s unimportant to me. |
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 2, 2023 1:47:00 GMT -5
Does "unofficial" visit even mean anything in today's NIL world? We all know boosters are paying for these athletes to come on recruiting trips. I don’t know what NIL has to do with it. The term unofficially visit lost all meaning to me in the late 2000s when Alabama started abusing the term in football and everyone started following suit. There is a difference in how much wining and dining is done. Unofficial visits are used to forge relationships by getting them on campus as much as possible. Official visits are used to smother them with attention and give them the red carpet treatment. Unofficial visits are not usually as big a factor in other sports. For example, men’s basketball doesn’t utilize it nearly as much, mostly because shoe relationships and under the table money always mattered a lot more for the biggest recruits - yes, even more than football, historically. Jordan’s relationship with Nike changed the calculus in terms of how much a basketball player’s net endorsement value was worth compared to a football player. Because volleyball recruiting traditionally was over at such a young age, multiple unofficial visits outside of camps was never really a thing. Even in this year the lion’s share of the top 2025 recruits are already committed, so it’s only the rare holdouts that unofficial visits are evens factor. Having said all that, I’m with you in terms of unofficial visits hardly being on these players or their families’ dime. I just don’t believe that. Especially with the nod nod wink wink attitude the NCAA has taken with a known abuse of the dynamic for 15 years now. If it’s not going to be enforced it’s a tacit admission it’s okay. That’s the way it is. But it has nothing to do with NIL, really. That’s another dynamic added on top of it. Well in the past official would mean paid for and coordinated by the university. But since now it's openly acceptable for boosters to pay athletes, I guess I just don't really see the difference between the university paying for and coordinating visits for athletes and the collective university boosters for those programs doing it. I mean, on these "unofficial" visits, these recruits aren't just sitting courtside with the team and doing social events with them by coincidence. I guess I just don't get why we even distinguish between official and unofficial recruiting visits. |
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Post by slxpress on Oct 2, 2023 1:57:02 GMT -5
I don’t know what NIL has to do with it. The term unofficially visit lost all meaning to me in the late 2000s when Alabama started abusing the term in football and everyone started following suit. There is a difference in how much wining and dining is done. Unofficial visits are used to forge relationships by getting them on campus as much as possible. Official visits are used to smother them with attention and give them the red carpet treatment. Unofficial visits are not usually as big a factor in other sports. For example, men’s basketball doesn’t utilize it nearly as much, mostly because shoe relationships and under the table money always mattered a lot more for the biggest recruits - yes, even more than football, historically. Jordan’s relationship with Nike changed the calculus in terms of how much a basketball player’s net endorsement value was worth compared to a football player. Because volleyball recruiting traditionally was over at such a young age, multiple unofficial visits outside of camps was never really a thing. Even in this year the lion’s share of the top 2025 recruits are already committed, so it’s only the rare holdouts that unofficial visits are evens factor. Having said all that, I’m with you in terms of unofficial visits hardly being on these players or their families’ dime. I just don’t believe that. Especially with the nod nod wink wink attitude the NCAA has taken with a known abuse of the dynamic for 15 years now. If it’s not going to be enforced it’s a tacit admission it’s okay. That’s the way it is. But it has nothing to do with NIL, really. That’s another dynamic added on top of it. Well in the past official would mean paid for and coordinated by the university. But since now it's openly acceptable for boosters to pay athletes, I guess I just don't really see the difference between the university paying for and coordinating visits for athletes and the collective university boosters for those programs doing it. I mean, on these "unofficial" visits, these recruits aren't just sitting courtside with the team and doing social events with them by coincidence. I guess I just don't get why we even distinguish between official and unofficial recruiting visits. I’m just saying it has been grossly abused for the last 15 years with no NIL involved. The only distinction I make is the amount of money spent on the players. Like I said, unofficials are used to help forge relationships. Officials are used to roll out the red carpet. There is a distinction in that respect. But I do roll my eyes when commentators talk about highly rated players and their families spending their own money to make multiple visits to a campus. That’s more about football than volleyball, because the recruiting budgets are different. But to give you an example, quarterback Arch Manning made multiple unofficial visits to Georgia, Alabama, and Texas over the course of his recruitment. I seriously doubt he or his family paid for any of them. But on the weekend of his official visit Texas spent $200k on him and his fellow recruits. That’s the difference between an official and an unofficial. For me. |
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