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Post by BearClause on Jan 24, 2020 23:57:22 GMT -5
What we know of as the common cold is frankly about as non damaging to the human body as pollen that might also cause an allergic response. The body simply overreacts to it, and the symptoms are just the immune response. Some who are infected don't have symptoms, and it doesn't appear that they take any longer to fight off the infection. Yes, you are right, but only for normal healthy adults. Normal healthy adults might even be more in danger from some viruses because of a stronger immune response. Apparently with the 2009 swine flu epidemic, an inordinate number of deaths were among younger, seemingly healthy people. This new virus seems to be similar. This gets a little more in the weeds: www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext
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Post by ironhammer on Jan 25, 2020 3:09:07 GMT -5
Yes, you are right, but only for normal healthy adults. Normal healthy adults might even be more in danger from some viruses because of a stronger immune response. Apparently with the 2009 swine flu epidemic, an inordinate number of deaths were among younger, seemingly healthy people. This new virus seems to be similar. This gets a little more in the weeds: www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltextIn some cases yes that is true. Although in general, people with weaker immune system tends to have a worse prognosis.
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Post by volleykenzie on Jan 25, 2020 12:11:47 GMT -5
basically it started because someone from china ate either a rat or bat and turned out the animal had the coronavirus. Don't know where you heard this, but it sounds like racist xenophobia. Zoonotic diseases are not often caused by eating something. Typically they are spread the same way the diseases are spread among people -- through the air from breathing or sneezing, through blood contact (which might happen when preparing an animal for eating), through contact with an animal's urine or feces, by being bitten, or by skin-to-skin contact (especially if there are any open wounds). Most zoonotic diseases come from farmers, because farmers spend a lot of time with animals. And yeah, usually those animals are raised or kept for food, so in a sense the diseases come from eating them. But usually not directly, unless the meat is eaten without being cooked. literally i did research on this and people are saying that’s mostly like what happened. it’s not me trying to xenophobic or anything, it’s just what i gathered from research
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Post by volleykenzie on Jan 25, 2020 12:14:37 GMT -5
basically it started because someone from china ate either a rat or bat and turned out the animal had the coronavirus. Don't know where you heard this, but it sounds like racist xenophobia. Zoonotic diseases are not often caused by eating something. Typically they are spread the same way the diseases are spread among people -- through the air from breathing or sneezing, through blood contact (which might happen when preparing an animal for eating), through contact with an animal's urine or feces, by being bitten, or by skin-to-skin contact (especially if there are any open wounds). Most zoonotic diseases come from farmers, because farmers spend a lot of time with animals. And yeah, usually those animals are raised or kept for food, so in a sense the diseases come from eating them. But usually not directly, unless the meat is eaten without being cooked. but, i’m sorry if i happened to have offended you or anything that was not my intention
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Post by akbar on Jan 25, 2020 12:36:46 GMT -5
SARS affected 37 countries, sickening 8,098 people and killing 774 of them and cost $38 Billion to the worldwide economy.
China is shutting down all travel and this is only growing and the ripple effect will be significant
The World Bank has estimates of a Pandemic major Flu costing in the trillions
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Post by BearClause on Jan 25, 2020 14:18:15 GMT -5
basically it started because someone from china ate either a rat or bat and turned out the animal had the coronavirus. The original host is likely to be a bat, these animals were the ones who had the SARS coronavirus. But in this case, there is likely to be an intermediary host between bats and humans and it likely did not jump directly from bats to humans. So let's say the bat virus passed to a snake, and that snake was in turn caught by humans and from there it pass to humans. In any case, people should leave bats well alone. They are the reservoir of many nasty and deadly diseases like ebola, rabies and various coronaviruses, among other diseases. Th spread may very well have been sped up by the prevalence of crowded live animal markets. There's a preference for meat that's freshly slaughtered, and of course a much higher demand for such given more money to spend. www.nytimes.com/2020/01/25/world/asia/china-markets-coronavirus-sars.htmlI've actually bought a live chicken, or at least there were lots of live chickens and they were killed and plucked recently. That used to be a staple of American Chinatowns until zoning restrictions moved them to more industrial areas. The place I went to in an area with lots of warehouses and there was't another business like it in the neighborhood. NYC supposedly has about 40 of these markets.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 25, 2020 14:58:38 GMT -5
The original host is likely to be a bat, these animals were the ones who had the SARS coronavirus. But in this case, there is likely to be an intermediary host between bats and humans and it likely did not jump directly from bats to humans. So let's say the bat virus passed to a snake, and that snake was in turn caught by humans and from there it pass to humans. In any case, people should leave bats well alone. They are the reservoir of many nasty and deadly diseases like ebola, rabies and various coronaviruses, among other diseases. Th spread may very well have been sped up by the prevalence of crowded live animal markets. There's a preference for meat that's freshly slaughtered, and of course a much higher demand for such given more money to spend. www.nytimes.com/2020/01/25/world/asia/china-markets-coronavirus-sars.htmlI've actually bought a live chicken, or at least there were lots of live chickens and they were killed and plucked recently. That used to be a staple of American Chinatowns until zoning restrictions moved them to more industrial areas. The place I went to in an area with lots of warehouses and there was't another business like it in the neighborhood. NYC supposedly has about 40 of these markets. I tend to assume that all chicken I have ever eaten was once alive. At least, I hope it was. People have this strange thing where they are happy to buy a 20-piece box of "nuggets" but they think buying a live chicken to kill and eat is somehow mysteriously exotic. Anyway, it's just different to say "they think the virus is probably endemic in bats, and likely jumped to humans via a live-animal bazaar", as opposed to "I heard some Chinese person ate a rat". The one is a neutral description of what may have happened, while the other one is full of "those Chinese people eat many disgusting things, and this is the punishment for that" overtones.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 25, 2020 15:15:13 GMT -5
NYC supposedly has about 40 of these markets.
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Post by BearClause on Jan 25, 2020 17:25:32 GMT -5
Th spread may very well have been sped up by the prevalence of crowded live animal markets. There's a preference for meat that's freshly slaughtered, and of course a much higher demand for such given more money to spend. www.nytimes.com/2020/01/25/world/asia/china-markets-coronavirus-sars.htmlI've actually bought a live chicken, or at least there were lots of live chickens and they were killed and plucked recently. That used to be a staple of American Chinatowns until zoning restrictions moved them to more industrial areas. The place I went to in an area with lots of warehouses and there was't another business like it in the neighborhood. NYC supposedly has about 40 of these markets. I tend to assume that all chicken I have ever eaten was once alive. At least, I hope it was. People have this strange thing where they are happy to buy a 20-piece box of "nuggets" but they think buying a live chicken to kill and eat is somehow mysteriously exotic. Anyway, it's just different to say "they think the virus is probably endemic in bats, and likely jumped to humans via a live-animal bazaar", as opposed to "I heard some Chinese person ate a rat". The one is a neutral description of what may have happened, while the other one is full of "those Chinese people eat many disgusting things, and this is the punishment for that" overtones. In this case China has banned the sale of wild animal meat. I understand it was somewhat of an exotic status symbol. Also, in my industry I know a lot of people from mainland China. Many have brought back potent antibiotics and other powerful meds with the rationale that they helped with cold symptoms. A friend from China has parents who are doctors there and just hand out Cipro like it’s candy. A former doctor of mine was educated in China but did her residency on the US. When I mentioned China and antibiotics she told me that her supervisors always rapped on her hands every time she pulled out her prescription pad to give antibiotics for cold symptoms. And I’ve seen family dining practices that seem a bit unsanitary and possibly a means to transmit disease. Family style meals where there aren't always serving utensils seems to be a good way to pass on pathogens.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 25, 2020 18:15:29 GMT -5
Family style meals where there aren't always serving utensils seems to be a good way to pass on pathogens. I suppose, but it's kind of hard to live with family and not get exposed to pathogens from your family. If you are talking about people who are not actually family but eat "family-style meals" together, this is hardly unique to China. I bet at least half the Superbowl parties in the US will feature either pizza that people just grab from a box and/or some kind of chips and dip that people just grab from the bag and dip from a bowl.
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Post by BearClause on Jan 25, 2020 19:31:35 GMT -5
Family style meals where there aren't always serving utensils seems to be a good way to pass on pathogens. I suppose, but it's kind of hard to live with family and not get exposed to pathogens from your family. If you are talking about people who are not actually family but eat "family-style meals" together, this is hardly unique to China. I bet at least half the Superbowl parties in the US will feature either pizza that people just grab from a box and/or some kind of chips and dip that people just grab from the bag and dip from a bowl. It's not just that, but the whole "family style" meals that are common in Asia. The idea of a large group where each person gets an individual entree is odd to them. And even in restaurants where serving utensils were provided, I've seen people use the eating utensils being dipped right into the shared food. Not just hands touching things, but chopsticks or spoons going in someone's mouth and then the saliva being deposited back in the food being consumed by someone else. When I've been a guest and I mentioned that I was uncomfortable with it, the host might have begrudgingly grabbed a separate serving utensil.
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Post by ironhammer on Jan 25, 2020 20:04:29 GMT -5
The original host is likely to be a bat, these animals were the ones who had the SARS coronavirus. But in this case, there is likely to be an intermediary host between bats and humans and it likely did not jump directly from bats to humans. So let's say the bat virus passed to a snake, and that snake was in turn caught by humans and from there it pass to humans. In any case, people should leave bats well alone. They are the reservoir of many nasty and deadly diseases like ebola, rabies and various coronaviruses, among other diseases. Th spread may very well have been sped up by the prevalence of crowded live animal markets. There's a preference for meat that's freshly slaughtered, and of course a much higher demand for such given more money to spend. www.nytimes.com/2020/01/25/world/asia/china-markets-coronavirus-sars.htmlI've actually bought a live chicken, or at least there were lots of live chickens and they were killed and plucked recently. That used to be a staple of American Chinatowns until zoning restrictions moved them to more industrial areas. The place I went to in an area with lots of warehouses and there was't another business like it in the neighborhood. NYC supposedly has about 40 of these markets. I suspect it's not a typical farm/livestock animal like cow, pig, lamb, goose or chicken. These animals seldom come in contact with bats. I read that it is likely some kind of game animal, a wild animal, like civet, snakes or some other exotic animal.
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Post by ironhammer on Jan 25, 2020 20:05:34 GMT -5
I tend to assume that all chicken I have ever eaten was once alive. At least, I hope it was. People have this strange thing where they are happy to buy a 20-piece box of "nuggets" but they think buying a live chicken to kill and eat is somehow mysteriously exotic. Anyway, it's just different to say "they think the virus is probably endemic in bats, and likely jumped to humans via a live-animal bazaar", as opposed to "I heard some Chinese person ate a rat". The one is a neutral description of what may have happened, while the other one is full of "those Chinese people eat many disgusting things, and this is the punishment for that" overtones. In this case China has banned the sale of wild animal meat. I understand it was somewhat of an exotic status symbol. Not quite, I read that the wet market which was ground zero for the outbreak had all kind of animals sold.
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Post by BearClause on Jan 25, 2020 20:27:20 GMT -5
In this case China has banned the sale of wild animal meat. I understand it was somewhat of an exotic status symbol. Not quite, I read that the wet market which was ground zero for the outbreak had all kind of animals sold. I don't know if anyone is sure what the exact "patient zero" source is, but currently this province has outlawed the sale of wild game animals. This was from the NY Times article I linked earlier. I know around here, the sale of wild game meat is very limited. It can certainly be given away, but in order to sell it requires USDA inspections.
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Post by ironhammer on Jan 25, 2020 20:35:10 GMT -5
Not quite, I read that the wet market which was ground zero for the outbreak had all kind of animals sold. I don't know if anyone is sure what the exact "patient zero" source is, but currently this province has outlawed the sale of wild game animals. This was from the NY Times article I linked earlier. I know around here, the sale of wild game meat is very limited. It can certainly be given away, but in order to sell it requires USDA inspections. Unfortunately, what the law on paper say in China and what the reality is are two quite different things. All kind of animals were sold in the wet market. Apparently no one bothered to enforce the law.
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