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Post by bbg95 on Apr 17, 2020 18:55:40 GMT -5
I think he was actually talking about English classes at US universities (English majors are somewhat notorious for obsessing over semantics or other issues related to grammar and language), not the athletic system in England. No, I was talking about the athletic system in England. But not the one they have now. The US didn't inherit our university athletic system yesterday -- the fork was much earlier than that. The original English system prized "amateur athletics" mainly because the wealthy classes could afford to train up and play sports without compensation but the poorer classes could not. That made sure that sports were for the wealthy. This system broke down when Rugby Football split in two (one group that favored amateurism and one that favored professionalism). But the whole fetish for sports as an amateur endeavor for the wealthy classes carried over into the Olympics. This was only finally squashed in the last few decades. US college athletics comes from that tradition that valued amateur sports and (generally upper class) college students playing for the honor of their school. Thus, bringing in professional "students" was seen as cheating. I see. Thanks for the clarification and history lesson. I genuinely learned something new from your explanation.
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Post by n00b on Apr 17, 2020 18:55:46 GMT -5
This is not really true. The NBA has a rule that prohibits signing players until they are 19, which gave rise to the so-called "one and done" phenomenon. Before that, there were occasionally NBA players who never went to college at all. A fair number of "one and done" players would go directly to the NBA if they could. With NFL football, 18-yr-old men simply would not be able to survive the physical punishment. The NFL benefits from not having to sign them too young to play at the top pro level. I suppose the training in football is somewhat of a benefit to the NFL, but what they are really doing is mainly waiting for these guys' bodies to get bigger. This is disingenuous and you know it. The one and done rule was created to give the NCAA an opportunity to make money from the LeBron's and Zion's of this world. Those guys don't need to be in college and they are just trying to get through the experience in one piece. If/when the NCAA changes/folds there will be pro leagues set up within hours to pick up the slack. The teams within those leagues will have youth versions spanning all age groups so that they can identify and develop talent in house. Know how I know this? It's how every other developed nation does sports. And consequently the USWNT will get stronger and produce higher quality players. One-and-dones are a result of an NBA rule. The NCAA had nothing to do with it. And I’ve seen reporting that NBA owners are trying to get rid of it but the players association is opposed.
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Post by bbg95 on Apr 17, 2020 18:55:56 GMT -5
This is not really true. The NBA has a rule that prohibits signing players until they are 19, which gave rise to the so-called "one and done" phenomenon. Before that, there were occasionally NBA players who never went to college at all. A fair number of "one and done" players would go directly to the NBA if they could. With NFL football, 18-yr-old men simply would not be able to survive the physical punishment. The NFL benefits from not having to sign them too young to play at the top pro level. I suppose the training in football is somewhat of a benefit to the NFL, but what they are really doing is mainly waiting for these guys' bodies to get bigger. This is disingenuous and you know it. The one and done rule was created to give the NCAA an opportunity to make money from the LeBron's and Zion's of this world. Those guys don't need to be in college and they are just trying to get through the experience in one piece. If/when the NCAA changes/folds there will be pro leagues set up within hours to pick up the slack. The teams within those leagues will have youth versions spanning all age groups so that they can identify and develop talent in house. Know how I know this? It's how every other developed nation does sports. And consequently the USWNT will get stronger and produce higher quality players. No, the one-and-done rule was created because the NBA had enough high-profile flops that were drafted straight out of high school (e.g. Kwame Brown) that teams didn't want to deal with it anymore and would rather the players spend a year in college (or overseas) first so that drafting them would theoretically be less risky. In fact, a lot of NCAA fans don't like the rule because it leads to an enormous amount of roster turnover at places like Kentucky, and it makes the notion of a "student-athlete" look particularly absurd, since some players will literally only finish one semester of college (dropping out after the tournament). Now, the NCAA may benefit financially from the rule, but it's still the NBA's decision, and they'll do what's best for them, not what's best for the NCAA. If the NBA thought that eliminating the age limit would benefit them financially, they would do it, no matter how the NCAA felt about it.
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Post by dragan11 on Apr 17, 2020 19:37:24 GMT -5
That is equally if not more a political move by the coach. He is the German NT head coach and Pogany is the teams starting Libero. There is definitely bias there. There are many international fans following German league. The difference of level between Poganny and JWO is very clear. It's not about nationality. Coach doesn't hesitate to put starting setter for German NT in bench, when she doesn't perform good.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 19:55:46 GMT -5
This is disingenuous and you know it. The one and done rule was created to give the NCAA an opportunity to make money from the LeBron's and Zion's of this world. Those guys don't need to be in college and they are just trying to get through the experience in one piece. If/when the NCAA changes/folds there will be pro leagues set up within hours to pick up the slack. The teams within those leagues will have youth versions spanning all age groups so that they can identify and develop talent in house. Know how I know this? It's how every other developed nation does sports. And consequently the USWNT will get stronger and produce higher quality players. No, the one-and-done rule was created because the NBA had enough high-profile flops that were drafted straight out of high school (e.g. Kwame Brown) that teams didn't want to deal with it anymore and would rather the players spend a year in college (or overseas) first so that drafting them would theoretically be less risky. In fact, a lot of NCAA fans don't like the rule because it leads to an enormous amount of roster turnover at places like Kentucky, and it makes the notion of a "student-athlete" look particularly absurd, since some players will literally only finish one semester of college (dropping out after the tournament). Now, the NCAA may benefit financially from the rule, but it's still the NBA's decision, and they'll do what's best for them, not what's best for the NCAA. If the NBA thought that eliminating the age limit would benefit them financially, they would do it, no matter how the NCAA felt about it. You're dead right about why they created it: to get more of a chance to evaluate players before they hit the draft but it obviously benefits the NCAA too. Now it seems, as with a lot of things, that the wind may be changing - Adam Silver is apparently looking into scrapping the rule and has made some comments about 'intersecting players younger'. But regardless of what you think of 1 and done, at least men like like Coach Cal and Coach K, whatever you think about their motives, are preparing their players for their career. USAV and/or the schools could easily make that a consideration for the (very limited number of) potential professional volleyball players that emerge from the NCAA every year.
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Post by Wiz on Apr 17, 2020 20:12:52 GMT -5
I will not deny the fact that having Robinson on the Olympic roster as a Libero would open the door for Kathryn Plummer to make the roster. That in itself is cause for some excitement. Plummer made an impact during her brief stint at Monza. I would say Thompson made less of a splash but she has already proven herself more with the NT. My only concern with Robinson at Libero is due to her size, tip coverage will continue to be and issue. That will only be resolved with an actual Libero on the roster. As of right now, I can’t see Plummer making the roster (as big of a fan as I am). She probably won’t pass well enough to play OH and for Opp she has Drews, Lowe, and Thompson ahead of her. It’s definitely an exciting possibility but does she fit the current system? I like Robinson at Libero and would love to see Plummer on the team but I do agree, I don't think she fits the current system that they're running. Honestly, I don't think the current system is working. But hey. that just me. Is Akinradewo returning?
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Post by gibbyb1 on Apr 17, 2020 20:17:04 GMT -5
As of right now, I can’t see Plummer making the roster (as big of a fan as I am). She probably won’t pass well enough to play OH and for Opp she has Drews, Lowe, and Thompson ahead of her. It’s definitely an exciting possibility but does she fit the current system? I like Robinson at Libero and would love to see Plummer on the team but I do agree, I don't think she fits the current system that they're running. Honestly, I don't think the current system is working. But hey. that just me. Is Akinradewo returning? Silver, bronze, world champs, runner-up VNL. Define “system working”?
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Post by akbar on Apr 17, 2020 20:17:56 GMT -5
As of right now, I can’t see Plummer making the roster (as big of a fan as I am). She probably won’t pass well enough to play OH and for Opp she has Drews, Lowe, and Thompson ahead of her. It’s definitely an exciting possibility but does she fit the current system? Honestly, I don't think the current system is working. imo Thinking bigger perspective "the system" is going to need a significant influx of $$ via private sponsorship to get our women and men ready by next July....in order to do it right.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 20:19:31 GMT -5
Not sure how Robinson at libero means a bigger chance for Plummer. If they decide to take four OHs, which Karch didn’t do in Rio, I would have to think that Foecke has a leg up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 20:23:39 GMT -5
I like Robinson at Libero and would love to see Plummer on the team but I do agree, I don't think she fits the current system that they're running. Honestly, I don't think the current system is working. But hey. that just me. Is Akinradewo returning? Silver, bronze, world champs, runner-up VNL. Define “system working”? That WCh title was six years ago. Their most recent appearance at the WChs in 2018 was, arguably, the worst Team USA performance at a major event in the last two decades.
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Post by volleyguy on Apr 17, 2020 20:36:40 GMT -5
Silver, bronze, world champs, runner-up VNL. Define “system working”? That WCh title was six years ago. Their most recent appearance at the WChs in 2018 was, arguably, the worst Team USA performance at a major event in the last two decades. Agreed. The WCH gold was the zenith, if not merely an outlier. The trajectory for USA WNT under Karch is definitely trending downward.
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Post by donut on Apr 17, 2020 21:32:47 GMT -5
Also, let's stop bragging about winning the VNL maybe.
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Post by werka on Apr 17, 2020 22:20:08 GMT -5
That is equally if not more a political move by the coach. He is the German NT head coach and Pogany is the teams starting Libero. There is definitely bias there. There are many international fans following German league. The difference of level between Poganny and JWO is very clear. It's not about nationality. Coach doesn't hesitate to put starting setter for German NT in bench, when she doesn't perform good. In retrospect, he also did the same for Pogany and JWO when the former struggled. It's not like JWO never saw the starting light with the team's A-unit. Lol.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 22:37:52 GMT -5
Also, let's stop bragging about winning the VNL maybe. If Karch was a college coach, he’d be real good at winning in August. December? No.
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Post by bbg95 on Apr 17, 2020 22:51:41 GMT -5
Silver, bronze, world champs, runner-up VNL. Define “system working”? That WCh title was six years ago. Their most recent appearance at the WChs in 2018 was, arguably, the worst Team USA performance at a major event in the last two decades. I mean, how much do the non-Olympic tournaments really matter in terms of how the program is perceived by the general public? Like in basketball, nobody really cares if the US doesn't win the World Cup as long as they win the Olympics. Whereas, if they don't win gold at the Olympics, it's a disaster. If the women's volleyball team brings home any Olympic medal (the expectations are necessarily lower for a team that has never won Olympic gold than they are for basketball), I imagine the cycle will be viewed as an unmitigated success, and no one will care about the World Championships.
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