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Post by joetrinsey on Apr 20, 2020 13:16:42 GMT -5
The only thing I'll add is that, in a long tournament like World Championships, there's something to pacing yourself. I think that's something Zhu Ting learned between 2014 and 2016.
This seems like maybe it should be something the coaches should be doing more than the players doing it.
Coaches don't play, players do.
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Post by Reach on Apr 20, 2020 13:17:10 GMT -5
Karch runs the starting 6 into the ground compared to most other teams out there. This is why we probably look great on paper.. especially when looking at passing numbers.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 20, 2020 13:17:51 GMT -5
This seems like maybe it should be something the coaches should be doing more than the players doing it. Coaches don't play, players do. But they determine who does play.
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Post by joetrinsey on Apr 20, 2020 13:24:14 GMT -5
Coaches don't play, players do. But they determine who does play.
I'm confused what you're arguing here, are you saying coaches should rest their starters more often in a tournament like World Championships?
What I'm saying is that there is a change in effort level based on the importance of the competition. And if vertical jump height is a decent proxy for physical effort (I believe that it is), then I have seen it empirically. And I think that's not necessarily a bad thing. The overall load of a volleyball practice (number of jumps, swings, etc) is generally higher than a match. But players struggle to play matches on consecutive days while they routinely practice multiple days in a row.
Different demands require different physical strategies by the players. They aren't mindless robots who just blindly execute the instructions from the coach.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 20, 2020 13:37:28 GMT -5
But they determine who does play. I'm confused what you're arguing here, are you saying coaches should rest their starters more often in a tournament like World Championships? What I'm saying is that there is a change in effort level based on the importance of the competition. And if vertical jump height is a decent proxy for physical effort (I believe that it is), then I have seen it empirically. And I think that's not necessarily a bad thing. The overall load of a volleyball practice (number of jumps, swings, etc) is generally higher than a match. But players struggle to play matches on consecutive days while they routinely practice multiple days in a row. Different demands require different physical strategies by the players. They aren't mindless robots who just blindly execute the instructions from the coach.
You just said that the World Championships are long and exhausting. Now you are implying that it's a ridiculous idea to rest the starters. I'm trying to figure out what you are arguing here. I can easily grasp that players (like everyone else) have good days and bad days, or that they can wear down over time. But it does seem to me like the first part of that involves a lot of luck while the second part of that should definitely be part of the job of the coaches to help with. In a sport like, say, beach volleyball, there are no subs. So yeah, the only way a player can get a rest is by "pacing" him/her self. But when reserves are available, if the team is good enough and if the "grind" factor is important enough, surely subs should be part of the coaching strategy, right?
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Post by Reach on Apr 20, 2020 13:37:29 GMT -5
But they determine who does play. I'm confused what you're arguing here, are you saying coaches should rest their starters more often in a tournament like World Championships? What I'm saying is that there is a change in effort level based on the importance of the competition. And if vertical jump height is a decent proxy for physical effort (I believe that it is), then I have seen it empirically. And I think that's not necessarily a bad thing. The overall load of a volleyball practice (number of jumps, swings, etc) is generally higher than a match. But players struggle to play matches on consecutive days while they routinely practice multiple days in a row. Different demands require different physical strategies by the players. They aren't mindless robots who just blindly execute the instructions from the coach.
Unless they played for Karpol
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libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
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Post by libro on Apr 20, 2020 13:46:55 GMT -5
How bout I convince you of the REAL most important libero skill. The bump set. Are you saying Nicklin Hames is the next USA libero? Quite possibly. We’ll just need her as the libero to defend in 1. Mako Kobata does this occasionally so Nicklin can too right?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 13:48:09 GMT -5
and also what was their passing in the later rounds when it mattered. Marginally better, but not much. Whole tournament: 39.2% Good Pass Rounds 3 & 4: 42.8% For reference, their opponents in those last 4 matches were at 51.6% Good Pass. data king
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Post by joetrinsey on Apr 20, 2020 13:59:38 GMT -5
I'm confused what you're arguing here, are you saying coaches should rest their starters more often in a tournament like World Championships? What I'm saying is that there is a change in effort level based on the importance of the competition. And if vertical jump height is a decent proxy for physical effort (I believe that it is), then I have seen it empirically. And I think that's not necessarily a bad thing. The overall load of a volleyball practice (number of jumps, swings, etc) is generally higher than a match. But players struggle to play matches on consecutive days while they routinely practice multiple days in a row. Different demands require different physical strategies by the players. They aren't mindless robots who just blindly execute the instructions from the coach.
You just said that the World Championships are long and exhausting. Now you are implying that it's a ridiculous idea to rest the starters. I'm trying to figure out what you are arguing here. I can easily grasp that players (like everyone else) have good days and bad days, or that they can wear down over time. But it does seem to me like the first part of that involves a lot of luck while the second part of that should definitely be part of the job of the coaches to help with. In a sport like, say, beach volleyball, there are no subs. So yeah, the only way a player can get a rest is by "pacing" him/her self. But when reserves are available, if the team is good enough and if the "grind" factor is important enough, surely subs should be part of the coaching strategy, right?
I don't think it's a ridiculous idea to rest the starters. We did it at USA in 2014 vs Mexico and Brazil.
But I also think that players do play at a different intensity level in a less-important match than they do in a medal match. And it's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Apr 20, 2020 14:03:13 GMT -5
Karch runs the starting 6 into the ground compared to most other teams out there. This is why we probably look great on paper.. especially when looking at passing numbers. I think this is pretty empirically wrong. We have a huge player pool and switch out players regularly. We do send our B/C teams out to events, and we also don't have a competitive continental tournament, so we don't need to rest our A team for VNL or last year's World Cup like others do. Brazil has started building a B team but they sued to send their A team to every damn tournament, and China pre-Lang Ping would do that too. I agree the preponderance of non-competitive matches makes our stats very wonky.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 20, 2020 14:11:16 GMT -5
You just said that the World Championships are long and exhausting. Now you are implying that it's a ridiculous idea to rest the starters. I'm trying to figure out what you are arguing here. I can easily grasp that players (like everyone else) have good days and bad days, or that they can wear down over time. But it does seem to me like the first part of that involves a lot of luck while the second part of that should definitely be part of the job of the coaches to help with. In a sport like, say, beach volleyball, there are no subs. So yeah, the only way a player can get a rest is by "pacing" him/her self. But when reserves are available, if the team is good enough and if the "grind" factor is important enough, surely subs should be part of the coaching strategy, right? I don't think it's a ridiculous idea to rest the starters. We did it at USA in 2014 vs Mexico and Brazil. But I also think that players do play at a different intensity level in a less-important match than they do in a medal match. And it's not necessarily a bad thing.
OK, yeah. I mean, this is obvious in some other sports, right? Like when people set world records in the Olympics. Or when people running the 5000M pick up the pace and then sprint at the end. But presumably if this is an easily determined optimal strategy then everybody else will be using it too.
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libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
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Post by libro on Apr 20, 2020 20:51:25 GMT -5
Karch runs the starting 6 into the ground compared to most other teams out there. This is why we probably look great on paper.. especially when looking at passing numbers. Doesn’t Karch use the 6-2 more than most teams? Isn’t this a good time for #1 setter and oppo to get rest?
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Post by Reach on Apr 20, 2020 21:03:32 GMT -5
Karch runs the starting 6 into the ground compared to most other teams out there. This is why we probably look great on paper.. especially when looking at passing numbers. Doesn’t Karch use the 6-2 more than most teams? Isn’t this a good time for #1 setter and oppo to get rest? He occasionally runs the dubsub. That’s far from a 6-2
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Post by vballfan17 on Apr 20, 2020 21:36:51 GMT -5
Doesn’t Karch use the 6-2 more than most teams? Isn’t this a good time for #1 setter and oppo to get rest? He occasionally runs the dubsub. That’s far from a 6-2 Yeah you technically can’t run a 6-2 in the olympics as you can only sub for a player once per set but I do believe Karch likes to run the double sub on frequent occasion.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 20, 2020 21:47:16 GMT -5
He occasionally runs the dubsub. That’s far from a 6-2 Yeah you technically can’t run a 6-2 in the olympics as you can only sub for a player once per set but I do believe Karch likes to run the double sub on frequent occasion. Sure you can, if you have two setter/hitters
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