|
Post by Disc808 on Apr 24, 2020 15:16:15 GMT -5
Yes, I've noticed this in a lot of Stanford matches that Karch commentates on. I think the thing that irks him (and all the haters) is that she does not play with flawless technique or discipline. She has a good platform, great reading ability, makes dynamic movements, etc. However, her type of play comes with weaknesses and some bad habits (IMO, she cheats in too much especially w/ one-on-one blocks... maybe it's cuz she's used to Plummer bouncing balls 13 feet in practice ). I think her "go or you won't know" philosophy certainly works well for those hustle plays but for the routine digs she often just moves too much and could probably reduce her foot movement. She can make dynamic movements without running around all over the place (okay this Is exaggerated lol). On the bright side, at least there's a ton of room for improvement for her and if she can bridge together her good qualities with discipline and control she will be even better. I agree with NEARLY all of this. What I don’t agree with is your mentality on when to ‘overly’ read, as I’ll put it. I think Out of System, she needs to be WAY more disciplined at the highest level. She’s nearly 5 feet in from her sideline and that’s what people blast OOS or high off the block or shots short. But where I believe she has the most free reign is 1 on 1. Go take a chance and see if that hitter will blast it near you. You’re already way behind in the point. Karch is always saying how his blockers and hitters have to ‘take chances’ and dive one way or the other, see if they get a stuff. Or for hitters, take a chance and take a big swing. That’s what I think Hentz has the leeway to do. Take a risky chance and see if u come up with a dig My point was that, how often can/will players actually hit the ball where she cheats to? Sure, when it works it’s da bomb but she often gets beat way more than she digs it at the 13 foot line/championship logo. If she literally stood like 2 feet to the left of where she cheats to she would dig way more balls.
|
|
libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
|
Post by libro on Apr 24, 2020 15:19:07 GMT -5
I agree with NEARLY all of this. What I don’t agree with is your mentality on when to ‘overly’ read, as I’ll put it. I think Out of System, she needs to be WAY more disciplined at the highest level. She’s nearly 5 feet in from her sideline and that’s what people blast OOS or high off the block or shots short. But where I believe she has the most free reign is 1 on 1. Go take a chance and see if that hitter will blast it near you. You’re already way behind in the point. Karch is always saying how his blockers and hitters have to ‘take chances’ and dive one way or the other, see if they get a stuff. Or for hitters, take a chance and take a big swing. That’s what I think Hentz has the leeway to do. Take a risky chance and see if u come up with a dig My point was that, how often can/will players actually hit the ball where she cheats to? Sure, when it works it’s da bomb but she often gets beat way more than she digs it at the 13 foot line/championship logo. If she literally stood like 2 feet to the left of where she cheats to she would dig way more balls. I concur. But many pros can easily hit that shot, it’s rather when they feel like bouncing. But She (Mo) is also decent at in game adjustments, as far as I can tell from 4 years of college footage. Zhu ting is probably the only hitter I know that doesn’t hit down 1 on 1, but rather when she absolutely pleases to. 1 on 1 some times she whacks the deep cross court corner and that’s just unfair. I don’t even think my Hentz could dig that one
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2020 15:28:07 GMT -5
I agree with NEARLY all of this. What I don’t agree with is your mentality on when to ‘overly’ read, as I’ll put it. I think Out of System, she needs to be WAY more disciplined at the highest level. She’s nearly 5 feet in from her sideline and that’s what people blast OOS or high off the block or shots short. But where I believe she has the most free reign is 1 on 1. Go take a chance and see if that hitter will blast it near you. You’re already way behind in the point. Karch is always saying how his blockers and hitters have to ‘take chances’ and dive one way or the other, see if they get a stuff. Or for hitters, take a chance and take a big swing. That’s what I think Hentz has the leeway to do. Take a risky chance and see if u come up with a dig My point was that, how often can/will players actually hit the ball where she cheats to? Sure, when it works it’s da bomb but she often gets beat way more than she digs it at the 13 foot line/championship logo. If she literally stood like 2 feet to the left of where she cheats to she would dig way more balls. It's more to do with the momentum she generates with her split step than her positioning. That's the essence of her defensive technique and it's what allows her to cover such an incredible amount of floor (32% of all defensive touches for Stanford this year). If she is 'stood' anywhere in the floor, she's less explosive and gets less quality digs period. The trick with that kind of split step is timing (and, as you both mentioned) reading. You can't be more static and maintain her explosive movements. It's just contrasting styles.
|
|
|
Post by gibbyb1 on Apr 24, 2020 15:34:23 GMT -5
My point was that, how often can/will players actually hit the ball where she cheats to? Sure, when it works it’s da bomb but she often gets beat way more than she digs it at the 13 foot line/championship logo. If she literally stood like 2 feet to the left of where she cheats to she would dig way more balls. It's more to do with the momentum she generates with her split step than her positioning. That's the essence of her defensive technique and it's what allows her to cover such an incredible amount of floor (32% of all defensive touches for Stanford this year). If she is 'stood' anywhere in the floor, she's less explosive and gets less quality digs period. The trick with that kind of split step is timing (and, as you both mentioned) reading. You can't be more static and maintain her explosive movements. It's just contrasting styles. I agree, her prep move really allows her to be explosive. Too many players either can’t make that move and be balanced, or as you said, they make it too early or too late.
|
|
|
Post by c4ndlelight on Apr 24, 2020 15:36:59 GMT -5
Karch constantly would say it was a mistake to serve at hentz when opposing teams did it. So I think he thinks her SR is good. Agreed, so that’s settled. What do you think of his critique on her.. let’s say defensive mindset. He loves her to read but not every play seemingly? Does she not read that.. hard all the time then to please him? I don't think it's "settled" that her SR is good enough. That serving her (as opposed to targeting Plummer) is a bad idea doesn't mean her SR is good enough for USWNT.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2020 15:40:41 GMT -5
It's more to do with the momentum she generates with her split step than her positioning. That's the essence of her defensive technique and it's what allows her to cover such an incredible amount of floor (32% of all defensive touches for Stanford this year). If she is 'stood' anywhere in the floor, she's less explosive and gets less quality digs period. The trick with that kind of split step is timing (and, as you both mentioned) reading. You can't be more static and maintain her explosive movements. It's just contrasting styles. I agree, her prep move really allows her to be explosive. Too many players either can’t make that move and be balanced, or as you said, they make it too early or too late. Bingo. And that's why she HAS to start wide and play "outside in". She's reading and timing that off the hitter. It's very hard to do but she pulls it off. But it's a big difference to the way that, say KGB, played. Which is why Karch's praise seems inconsistent. She can't simply 'be two feet to the left' or "take less steps" because if she did that she'd be out of position 100% of the time.
|
|
libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
|
Post by libro on Apr 24, 2020 15:42:12 GMT -5
Agreed, so that’s settled. What do you think of his critique on her.. let’s say defensive mindset. He loves her to read but not every play seemingly? Does she not read that.. hard all the time then to please him? I don't think it's "settled" that her SR is good enough. That serving her (as opposed to targeting Plummer) is a bad idea doesn't mean her SR is good enough for USWNT. What I notice, especially towards the end of her collegiate career, is that maybe 2 balls will go to Plummer that are poorly passed, then Hentz cheats waaaaay over to her and makes sure she touches the next ball herself. It sounds routine for a libero to do something like that but it’s undervalued
|
|
libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
|
Post by libro on Apr 24, 2020 15:54:21 GMT -5
My point was that, how often can/will players actually hit the ball where she cheats to? Sure, when it works it’s da bomb but she often gets beat way more than she digs it at the 13 foot line/championship logo. If she literally stood like 2 feet to the left of where she cheats to she would dig way more balls. It's more to do with the momentum she generates with her split step than her positioning. That's the essence of her defensive technique and it's what allows her to cover such an incredible amount of floor (32% of all defensive touches for Stanford this year). If she is 'stood' anywhere in the floor, she's less explosive and gets less quality digs period. The trick with that kind of split step is timing (and, as you both mentioned) reading. You can't be more static and maintain her explosive movements. It's just contrasting styles. This is fascinating to read. Especially as a defensive minded player and viewer. Do you think she can control this split step and not over travel on some plays? Or does that take away her defensive stance once stopped
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2020 16:24:41 GMT -5
It's more to do with the momentum she generates with her split step than her positioning. That's the essence of her defensive technique and it's what allows her to cover such an incredible amount of floor (32% of all defensive touches for Stanford this year). If she is 'stood' anywhere in the floor, she's less explosive and gets less quality digs period. The trick with that kind of split step is timing (and, as you both mentioned) reading. You can't be more static and maintain her explosive movements. It's just contrasting styles. This is fascinating to read. Especially as a defensive minded player and viewer. Do you think she can control this split step and not over travel on some plays? Or does that take away her defensive stance once stopped If she is truly stopped (like KGB was) then yes, she's no longer able to generate the same explosive moves. I don't think that you really want her to be stopped earlier. I think you actually just want her to read better, so that she's taking the split INTO the hitters target area and not out of it. And that's fine; every player can improve their eyework & I'm sure that's a focus for her if she wants to continue her career. But given how much of her game is based on reading & momentum, asking her to move less (just for the sake of moving less) wouldn't get the result you might imagine.
|
|
|
Post by mikegarrison on Apr 24, 2020 17:23:04 GMT -5
I don't think it's "settled" that her SR is good enough. That serving her (as opposed to targeting Plummer) is a bad idea doesn't mean her SR is good enough for USWNT. What I notice, especially towards the end of her collegiate career, is that maybe 2 balls will go to Plummer that are poorly passed, then Hentz cheats waaaaay over to her and makes sure she touches the next ball herself. It sounds routine for a libero to do something like that but it’s undervalued It sounds routine because it is routine. We've all seen players get hidden in serve receive, right? It's a nice luxury to have when you can hide one of your receivers and the others can pretty much pick up the extra coverage.
|
|
libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
|
Post by libro on Apr 24, 2020 17:29:47 GMT -5
What I notice, especially towards the end of her collegiate career, is that maybe 2 balls will go to Plummer that are poorly passed, then Hentz cheats waaaaay over to her and makes sure she touches the next ball herself. It sounds routine for a libero to do something like that but it’s undervalued It sounds routine because it is routine. We've all seen players get hidden in serve receive, right? It's a nice luxury to have when you can hide one of your receivers and the others can pretty much pick up the extra coverage. It’s an unbelievable luxury. Stanford does 2 things w/ Plummer. They sometimes don’t have her pass at all, and some times she is in the formation and Hentz sticks her platform in front of her. The latter is more rare IMO
|
|
|
Post by c4ndlelight on Apr 24, 2020 17:39:55 GMT -5
I don't think it's "settled" that her SR is good enough. That serving her (as opposed to targeting Plummer) is a bad idea doesn't mean her SR is good enough for USWNT. What I notice, especially towards the end of her collegiate career, is that maybe 2 balls will go to Plummer that are poorly passed, then Hentz cheats waaaaay over to her and makes sure she touches the next ball herself. It sounds routine for a libero to do something like that but it’s undervalued That's been happening Plummer's entire career. She's never really had to fight through being broken down in receive - she has either been quickly hidden completely or just had Hentz blanket her when she starts to struggle (and even the next rotation the server comes around). I don't think that's inappropriate for a hitter of her caliber, and it totally makes sense. But it does put Plummer's passing numbers into context - not only is she not taking as much court, there's a large selection bias as to what serves she gets to pass (the ones she's comfortable with) and she's in a different role than other big OHs who say, only have their seam covered. Like I said, that's fine because KP can go boom boom and she should be freed up to do that, but it does mean her passing next to Hentz may not correlate all that well to other contexts - as others are alluding to. - even some liberos that are "better" overall won't have that range.
|
|
|
Post by mikegarrison on Apr 24, 2020 18:08:35 GMT -5
What I notice, especially towards the end of her collegiate career, is that maybe 2 balls will go to Plummer that are poorly passed, then Hentz cheats waaaaay over to her and makes sure she touches the next ball herself. It sounds routine for a libero to do something like that but it’s undervalued That's been happening Plummer's entire career. She's never really had to fight through being broken down in receive - she has either been quickly hidden completely or just had Hentz blanket her when she starts to struggle (and even the next rotation the server comes around). I don't think that's inappropriate for a hitter of her caliber, and it totally makes sense. But it does put Plummer's passing numbers into context - not only is she not taking as much court, there's a large selection bias as to what serves she gets to pass (the ones she's comfortable with) and she's in a different role than other big OHs who say, only have their seam covered. Like I said, that's fine because KP can go boom boom and she should be freed up to do that, but it does mean her passing next to Hentz may not correlate all that well to other contexts - as others are alluding to. - even some liberos that are "better" overall won't have that range. It's like when the best hitter on your baseball team plays first base. They aren't on the team for their defense, and that's just fine.
|
|
|
Post by wonderwarthog79 on Apr 24, 2020 18:10:20 GMT -5
Karch has the same problem with defense that I do. It isn't moving per se. It's moving around before the defender sees what's happening. Look at some film of Hentz. She rarely moves too early except to take a new position. I always thought he was mostly bothered by how much she HAS to move, but that's a function of team strategy, not Hentz's technique. On a team with several solid passers and defenders, she would still rely on reading, but not have to make such dramatic moves.
|
|
|
Post by Disc808 on Apr 24, 2020 18:21:58 GMT -5
For some reason, I always felt like Plummer was one of those players who was more comfortable receiving overhand
|
|