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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 12:52:38 GMT -5
It gets to be a tricky situation if some conferences played non conference while other’s didn’t. I don’t know why if the P5 and Ivy League (opposites?) both agree on not playing OR only playing conference, how that would lead to mid majors playing full seasons? I’m just not seeing it. Because the majority of schools aren’t in those extremes. Ivy League schools aren’t bothered by losing sports. And the Pac-12 and Big Ten have enough money to make the statement that it’s safer for Nebraska to play Penn State than it is to play Creighton. That’s a nonsensical and crazy expensive position to take. I think low budget conferences can just as easily make the argument it’s both safer and cheaper to play an opponent where we can drive vans to the match. The argument P5 schools are making is that it's safer to play conference only because they know the testing protocol for every athlete. Whereas by playing a school like Creighton, Nebraska is potentially exposing itself to unsafe testing methods used by the BE. That isn't me justifying the rationale, but that's the justification that is being used.
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Post by n00b on Jul 11, 2020 12:56:03 GMT -5
Because the majority of schools aren’t in those extremes. Ivy League schools aren’t bothered by losing sports. And the Pac-12 and Big Ten have enough money to make the statement that it’s safer for Nebraska to play Penn State than it is to play Creighton. That’s a nonsensical and crazy expensive position to take. I think low budget conferences can just as easily make the argument it’s both safer and cheaper to play an opponent where we can drive vans to the match. The argument P5 schools are making is that it's safer to play conference only because they know the testing protocol for every athlete. Whereas by playing a school like Creighton, Nebraska is potentially exposing itself to unsafe testing methods used by the BE. That isn't me justifying the rationale, but that's the justification that is being used. Right. It’s then saying we have more money than you and we don’t know if you can keep up. I can see the rationale for those schools. It wouldn’t make sense to me for the Big South to say that to the SOCON. Then again, a lot of what’s going on now doesn’t make sense to me.
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Post by ay2013 on Jul 11, 2020 14:58:49 GMT -5
lets just call a spade a spade. Have representatives - winner of the Pac-12, Big 10, SEC, Big 12 duke it out for the title in a 4 team round robin pool. The winner in a normal tournament was likely going to be one of those teams anyway. As much as I love mid-majors, cinderellas, Non-Power 5 teams, players like Thompson, Torrey, etc.. your point isn't unfounded. But at that point - why are you including the SEC and Big 12? Why don't the PAC and B1G just have a major 16-team double elimination Tournament (8 from each conference)? A *current* B1G or PAC team has won the Championship 19 of the last 20 years. Texas in 2012 is the anomaly. And if you look at the next 20 best -- the Runner-ups are still majority B1G/PAC except. Florida (2017) BYU (2014) Texas (2016, 2015, 2009) Long Beach State(2001) Ok, I’ll settle for 8 team double elimination, 2 BIG 10 teams, 2 PAC 12 teams, 1 SEC team, 1 Big 12 Team, 2 At Large teams to be decided by committee that have no reps from any of the above conferences.
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Post by beachgrad on Jul 11, 2020 16:05:43 GMT -5
Wow you are so generous with the number of non Big 5 bids. There are what 32 D1 conference and you give the 27 non Big 5 schools 2 entries. That will do justice to the majority of the young ladies working hard playing the game of volleyball.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Jul 11, 2020 18:11:59 GMT -5
I see the Big Ten commissioner has tested positive for covid. That certainly gives him a unique perspective
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Post by n00b on Jul 11, 2020 18:15:02 GMT -5
I see the Big Ten commissioner has tested positive for covid. That certainly gives him a unique perspective *Pac-12 Commissioner
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 18:17:20 GMT -5
Wow you are so generous with the number of non Big 5 bids. There are what 32 D1 conference and you give the 27 non Big 5 schools 2 entries. That will do justice to the majority of the young ladies working hard playing the game of volleyball. I actually think the above scenario is far more likely than anything resembling a "normal" NCAA tournament. This is what I was trying to express to trollhunter (who will perhaps listen now it's been said by his "pros"); going to conference-only isn't going to disadvantage the P5 because they'll just use their influence to change the rules. It might not be fair, but (this season more than most) competitive equity is out the window.
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Post by beachgrad on Jul 11, 2020 18:40:25 GMT -5
If anything close to that materializes with only 2 non Big 5 teams in the tourney the NCAA should just stop representing the other 27 conferences and stop pretending.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 18:51:27 GMT -5
If anything close to that materializes with only 2 non Big 5 teams in the tourney the NCAA should just stop representing the other 27 conferences and stop pretending. The NCAA has shown virtually no interest in taking any kind of divisive action so far during this crisis. I would be astonished if they do anything dramatic at any point this year. They'll let the conferences make the big decisions while trying to give the impression that they're overseeing proceedings.
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Post by midnightblue on Jul 11, 2020 18:59:33 GMT -5
If anything close to that materializes with only 2 non Big 5 teams in the tourney the NCAA should just stop representing the other 27 conferences and stop pretending. The NCAA has shown virtually no interest in taking any kind of divisive action so far during this crisis. I would be astonished if they do anything dramatic at any point this year. They'll let the conferences make the big decisions while trying to give the impression that they're overseeing proceedings. sounds familiar................
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 11, 2020 19:10:23 GMT -5
Wow you are so generous with the number of non Big 5 bids. There are what 32 D1 conference and you give the 27 non Big 5 schools 2 entries. That will do justice to the majority of the young ladies working hard playing the game of volleyball. Correction: They are only generous with what they consider "Big 4 bids", and "you give the 28 non Big 4 schools 2 entries." I am sure they also think the 2 at large bids should also go to the 3rd place in the B1G and Pac12, or the second place in the SEC. No room for BYU, Louisville, Pitt, Creighton, Marquette, Hawaii, San Diego, or this years Cincinnati, to have any consideration whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 19:16:55 GMT -5
Wow you are so generous with the number of non Big 5 bids. There are what 32 D1 conference and you give the 27 non Big 5 schools 2 entries. That will do justice to the majority of the young ladies working hard playing the game of volleyball. Correction: They are only generous with what they consider "Big 4 bids", and "you give the 28 non Big 4 schools 2 entries." I am sure they also think the 2 at large bids should also go to the 3rd place in the B1G and Pac12, or the second place in the SEC. No room for BYU, Louisville, Pitt, Creighton, Marquette, Hawaii, San Diego, or this years Cincinnati, to have any consideration whatsoever. This is why it's bad for non-P5 teams if the "big boys" won't share their toys.
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Post by trollhunter on Jul 11, 2020 19:20:20 GMT -5
Wow you are so generous with the number of non Big 5 bids. There are what 32 D1 conference and you give the 27 non Big 5 schools 2 entries. That will do justice to the majority of the young ladies working hard playing the game of volleyball. I actually think the above scenario is far more likely than anything resembling a "normal" NCAA tournament. This is what I was trying to express to trollhunter (who will perhaps listen now it's been said by his "pros"); going to conference-only isn't going to disadvantage the P5 because they'll just use their influence to change the rules. It might not be fair, but (this season more than most) competitive equity is out the window. And I think it much more likely that we have a tournament more similar to how it has been done in the past. We agree to disagree. I believe there is ZERO chance that NCAA does not honor automatic conference bids. That leaves P5 with less bids if field is reduced, even if they fudge the criteria. And you might want to re-read what the "pro's" wrote. It was NOT what you represent it to be.
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 11, 2020 19:52:58 GMT -5
Correction: They are only generous with what they consider "Big 4 bids", and "you give the 28 non Big 4 schools 2 entries." I am sure they also think the 2 at large bids should also go to the 3rd place in the B1G and Pac12, or the second place in the SEC. No room for BYU, Louisville, Pitt, Creighton, Marquette, Hawaii, San Diego, or this years Cincinnati, to have any consideration whatsoever. This is why it's bad for non-P5 teams if the "big boys" won't share their toys. My memory is that nobody from outside of the west broke through in the NCAA tournament into first the elite 8 and then the final four until the NCAA very intentionally seeded the tournament to guarantee that teams from other regions could make it that far without seeing a western team. For years they divided up the best of the west between the West and Northwest (then mountain) regions, which left a lot of unqualified teams from B1G to make it much further in the tournament than they deserved. The only teams consistently of any note outside of the west were Penn St., Nebraska and Texas. The B1G was garbage until they added PSU, then better still when they added Nebraska, yet they were gifted the opportunity to go deep in the tourney through regional seeding. It's way past time for the B1G to return the favor and cap conference bids and once again encourage regional seeding for the good of the sport.
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Post by ay2013 on Jul 11, 2020 20:20:01 GMT -5
Wow you are so generous with the number of non Big 5 bids. There are what 32 D1 conference and you give the 27 non Big 5 schools 2 entries. That will do justice to the majority of the young ladies working hard playing the game of volleyball. *shrug*. In an 8 team tournament, having two spots that *could* go to teams not in the Big 10, Big 12, SEC, and Pac 12 seems perfectly reasonable to me. That’s 25% of the field. In the last 10 years there have been 40 Final four teams, only two of those teams have been from teams NOT in those conferences (5%). In the same period there have been 80 elite 8 teams, only 10 of those have been from teams NOT in those conferences (12%). Frankly, I think giving 25% of an 8 team field possibly to teams NOT in those conferences is incredibly generous.
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