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Post by BearClause on Aug 9, 2020 11:15:00 GMT -5
I think it's less likely that a Dem wins the EC but not the popular vote, and more likely that Texas/Georgia/PA goes "permanently" blue and takes away any realistic chance of an R win. Everyone knows the EC is unfair, the arguments in favor of it have been entirely concocted to justify a system that favors republicans. Once one of the big red states goes blue and does away with that advantage, you will see almost immediate support for either an amendment or NPVIC. If all states had gone with 1 EV per congressional district won and 2 EV for each state won - then Trump would have won in 2016: 290-245. If this was done in 2012, I am pretty sure that Romney would have won. I don't have the final votes by congressional districts for Florida - w/o Florida, Romney was leading 258-250 - I am pretty sure he would have won. The Nebraska/Maine model sounds more fair, but it would be a HUGE problem for the Democrats. Clinton won 23 CD with a vote in excess of 80% vs. just one for Trump. Clinton's 22 best CD's were better than Trump's best. A lot of this has to do with mandated minority districts. Not sure that one can necessarily interpolate into what happens in truly competitive election. Campaign strategies have to be different. Part of the issue with winner take all per state is that there are enough people who just don't show up to vote thinking it won't matter, even if there are downballot races that may be more competitive.
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Post by mervinswerved on Aug 9, 2020 11:21:52 GMT -5
Land mass doesn't vote. People do. people that live in the city have absolutely no idea what middle America is like. They are sort of proud of their ignorance, as if these rednecks aren’t worth their thoughts or time. We are far more prudent financially, we have very little crime, and we have way more common sense. Frankly, most of you are far too lazy to grow any food, and some of you even think chocolate milk comes from the factory. You think the destruction of your own cities is sometimes justified, and you have no respect for the country or patriotism. You are the last people I want directing this country. What a crock of sh!t. I've lived in major cities in the east, Midwest, and South. I've also lived in farm country different places and currently in the rural-ish south (out first house had cows in the backyard but our new one has them 100 yards down the street). Do I not know how people live in various parts of the United States?
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 9, 2020 11:28:52 GMT -5
Yeah, you strike me as a very neutral poster who doesn't have any agenda. I said I’ve been guilty of it also. I said I’ve tried a few times in past to let it go and have everyone share in blame and find common ground and solutions and no one wants any part in that it seems so then I get back into it because yes I have my views and I’m not gonna let one side walk all over and continually trash them. I can step away though if others are willing to to find solutions and common ground. I know throwing blame solves nothing Let's say I walk up to your house and burn it to the ground. Do you blame me? In one sense, blaming me "solves nothing", because your house is still burned whether you blame me or not. But if I then said to you "Let it go. Both of us are to blame here. Let's find some common ground." -- would you be happy with that? We're blaming the party that has been in control for the bad outcomes due to the choices they deliberately made. How the hell is that supposed to lead to us "blaming both sides"? I do "blame both sides" for certain things. Like, for instance, Bush's disastrous tax cuts that are the main reason we went from surplus to massive deficit in the early 2000s. I blame both sides for this because Obama extended those tax cuts. Sure, in 2008 it would have been the wrong time to suddenly raise taxes, but they should have been phased out as the economy got stronger. I blame "both sides" for our massive overspending on defense, because despite the GOP rhetoric the Democrats have no real interest in cutting back defense spending any more than the Republicans do. But how the hell can anyone "blame both sides" for Trump's actions? Not only did the Democrats never support him, but they impeached him! It's on the GOP that he wasn't removed. It's on the GOP that the GOP can't get its act together and vote on an aid extension. It's on the GOP that in the middle of possibly the worst crisis since WW2, we have a President who cares more about his golf courses and his Twitter account than about running the country. It's on the GOP that in the middle of a world-wide pandemic we have a president who threw up every roadblock he could to any response because he was worried it might hurt his polls.
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Post by Boof1224 on Aug 9, 2020 11:33:46 GMT -5
I said I’ve been guilty of it also. I said I’ve tried a few times in past to let it go and have everyone share in blame and find common ground and solutions and no one wants any part in that it seems so then I get back into it because yes I have my views and I’m not gonna let one side walk all over and continually trash them. I can step away though if others are willing to to find solutions and common ground. I know throwing blame solves nothing Let's say I walk up to your house and burn it to the ground. Do you blame me? In one sense, blaming me "solves nothing", because your house is still burned whether you blame me or not. But if I then said to you "Let it go. Both of us are to blame here. Let's find some common ground." -- would you be happy with that? We're blaming the party that has been in control for the bad outcomes due to the choices they deliberately made. How the hell is that supposed to lead to us "blaming both sides"? I do "blame both sides" for certain things. Like, for instance, Bush's disastrous tax cuts that are the main reason we went from surplus to massive deficit in the early 2000s. I blame both sides for this because Obama extended those tax cuts. Sure, in 2008 it would have been the wrong time to suddenly raise taxes, but they should have been phased out as the economy got stronger. I blame "both sides" for our massive overspending on defense, because despite the GOP rhetoric the Democrats have no real interest in cutting back defense spending any more than the Republicans do. But how the hell can anyone "blame both sides" for Trump's actions? Not only did the Democrats never support him, but they impeached him! It's on the GOP that he wasn't removed. It's on the GOP that the GOP can't get its act together and vote on an aid extension. It's on the GOP that in the middle of possibly the worst crisis since WW2, we have a President who cares more about his golf courses and his Twitter account than about running the country. It's on the GOP that in the middle of a world-wide pandemic we have a president who threw up every roadblock he could to any response because he was worried it might hurt his polls. See you still want to blame trump. This doesn’t work. Bunch of freaking children seriously on both side. I have been one yes. I’m trying to change that but your still justifying blame. Can’t help yourself throwing trump in their as the blame and the give credit to Dems. This is exactly why the fighting goes on and on. Both sides can find ways to justify their actions. This way doesn’t work. What is so hard to understand about this. If one side is not willing to meet the other half way nothing gets done and both parties do this
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 9, 2020 11:36:38 GMT -5
Let's say I walk up to your house and burn it to the ground. Do you blame me? In one sense, blaming me "solves nothing", because your house is still burned whether you blame me or not. But if I then said to you "Let it go. Both of us are to blame here. Let's find some common ground." -- would you be happy with that? We're blaming the party that has been in control for the bad outcomes due to the choices they deliberately made. How the hell is that supposed to lead to us "blaming both sides"? I do "blame both sides" for certain things. Like, for instance, Bush's disastrous tax cuts that are the main reason we went from surplus to massive deficit in the early 2000s. I blame both sides for this because Obama extended those tax cuts. Sure, in 2008 it would have been the wrong time to suddenly raise taxes, but they should have been phased out as the economy got stronger. I blame "both sides" for our massive overspending on defense, because despite the GOP rhetoric the Democrats have no real interest in cutting back defense spending any more than the Republicans do. But how the hell can anyone "blame both sides" for Trump's actions? Not only did the Democrats never support him, but they impeached him! It's on the GOP that he wasn't removed. It's on the GOP that the GOP can't get its act together and vote on an aid extension. It's on the GOP that in the middle of possibly the worst crisis since WW2, we have a President who cares more about his golf courses and his Twitter account than about running the country. It's on the GOP that in the middle of a world-wide pandemic we have a president who threw up every roadblock he could to any response because he was worried it might hurt his polls. See you still want to blame trump. This doesn’t work. Bunch of freaking children seriously on both side. I have been one yes. I’m trying to change that but your still justifying blame. Can’t help yourself throwing trump in their as the blame and the give credit to Dems. This is exactly why the fighting goes on and on. Both sides can find ways to justify their actions. This way doesn’t work. What is so hard to understand about this. I blame Trump FOR THINGS TRUMP HAS DONE. Aren't conservatives supposed to be big on "personal responsibility"? Please explain to me why it is wrong to blame Trump for his own choices.
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Post by Boof1224 on Aug 9, 2020 11:37:44 GMT -5
See you still want to blame trump. This doesn’t work. Bunch of freaking children seriously on both side. I have been one yes. I’m trying to change that but your still justifying blame. Can’t help yourself throwing trump in their as the blame and the give credit to Dems. This is exactly why the fighting goes on and on. Both sides can find ways to justify their actions. This way doesn’t work. What is so hard to understand about this. I blame Trump FOR THINGS TRUMP HAS DONE. Aren't conservatives supposed to be big on "personal responsibility"? Please explain to me why it is wrong to blame Trump for his own choices. Ok and what does he get positive credit for
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Post by mervinswerved on Aug 9, 2020 11:38:54 GMT -5
I blame Trump FOR THINGS TRUMP HAS DONE. Aren't conservatives supposed to be big on "personal responsibility"? Please explain to me why it is wrong to blame Trump for his own choices. Ok and what does he get positive credit for Uh, not starting a nuclear war?
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Post by Boof1224 on Aug 9, 2020 11:40:21 GMT -5
Why do u think the right is starting to attack more because they aren’t just gonna stand by and allow one side to completely blame trump and right for everything then prob up their party
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Post by Boof1224 on Aug 9, 2020 11:44:09 GMT -5
Why do u think the right is starting to attack more because they aren’t just gonna stand by and allow one side to completely blame trump and right for everything then prop up their party . Trump has been right about plenty of things. Do I think he has great character no. But that’s not why I voted for him. Do I buy his everything is greatest ever rhetoric no. But he has been right on many things which guarantees will be asked what but they have all been discussed at one point and many on the left will find way to refute them all as not right so I’m not gonna list them. Many on the left are incapable of giving trump or right credit for anything. Even the best economy and lowest employment rate that can’t be refuted tries to be twisted into Obama did that. And you wonder why those are the right are fighting back. Again I say this is why we need to take party and blame out of this and work on common interests. This literally solves nothing and everyone is on defensive and on and on it goes. You just left the perfect example. If u keep blame and politics in this vilifying one side and praising other it puts other on defensive as seen right here. It’s why I said it doesn’t work
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Post by holidayhusker on Aug 9, 2020 12:19:50 GMT -5
people that live in the city have absolutely no idea what middle America is like. They are sort of proud of their ignorance, as if these rednecks aren’t worth their thoughts or time. We are far more prudent financially, we have very little crime, and we have way more common sense. Frankly, most of you are far too lazy to grow any food, and some of you even think chocolate milk comes from the factory. You think the destruction of your own cities is sometimes justified, and you have no respect for the country or patriotism. You are the last people I want directing this country. What a crock of sh!t. I've lived in major cities in the east, Midwest, and South. I've also lived in farm country different places and currently in the rural-ish south (out first house had cows in the backyard but our new one has them 100 yards down the street). Do I not know how people live in various parts of the United States? You lived by someone with cows? This is your claim to understanding Midwestern people? You saw cows?
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Post by holidayhusker on Aug 9, 2020 12:22:43 GMT -5
See you still want to blame trump. This doesn’t work. Bunch of freaking children seriously on both side. I have been one yes. I’m trying to change that but your still justifying blame. Can’t help yourself throwing trump in their as the blame and the give credit to Dems. This is exactly why the fighting goes on and on. Both sides can find ways to justify their actions. This way doesn’t work. What is so hard to understand about this. I blame Trump FOR THINGS TRUMP HAS DONE. Aren't conservatives supposed to be big on "personal responsibility"? Please explain to me why it is wrong to blame Trump for his own choices. i There lies the problem. You can’t even blame your own mayor for allowing things to get so horrible in your own city? And you want Trump supporters to see the light?
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Post by mervinswerved on Aug 9, 2020 12:26:23 GMT -5
What a crock of sh!t. I've lived in major cities in the east, Midwest, and South. I've also lived in farm country different places and currently in the rural-ish south (out first house had cows in the backyard but our new one has them 100 yards down the street). Do I not know how people live in various parts of the United States? You lived by someone with cows? This is your claim to understanding Midwestern people? You saw cows? I'd say my claim to knowing the Midwest is having lived in the Midwest and marrying someone from the Midwest.
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Post by holidayhusker on Aug 9, 2020 12:32:03 GMT -5
You lived by someone with cows? This is your claim to understanding Midwestern people? You saw cows? I'd say my claim to knowing the Midwest is having lived in the Midwest and marrying someone from the Midwest. fI lived in California for three months, I have a great friend who promotes for Sony pictures. I guess that makes me an expert on California.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2020 12:37:44 GMT -5
Don’t act like that came from nowhere. You questioned whether the left really cares for everyone, so I thought to myself, “Who doesn’t the left care about?” Well, the answer is the neo-nazis and the white supremacists. These people need serious help, and that’s something the right will not own up to. It seems you admit the Left doesn't care for everyone despite your original assertion that they do. Yes, Neo-Nazis and white supremacists need help. As do all types of hate groups, including those groups on the left that hate the capitalists, the cops, Chick-fil-a or any other group they decide to direct their hatred towards.
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cutshot818
Junior
2020 VT All-Rookie Team
Posts: 289
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Post by cutshot818 on Aug 9, 2020 12:39:27 GMT -5
I said I’ve been guilty of it also. I said I’ve tried a few times in past to let it go and have everyone share in blame and find common ground and solutions and no one wants any part in that it seems so then I get back into it because yes I have my views and I’m not gonna let one side walk all over and continually trash them. I can step away though if others are willing to to find solutions and common ground. I know throwing blame solves nothing Let's say I walk up to your house and burn it to the ground. Do you blame me? In one sense, blaming me "solves nothing", because your house is still burned whether you blame me or not. But if I then said to you "Let it go. Both of us are to blame here. Let's find some common ground." -- would you be happy with that? We're blaming the party that has been in control for the bad outcomes due to the choices they deliberately made. How the hell is that supposed to lead to us "blaming both sides"? I do "blame both sides" for certain things. Like, for instance, Bush's disastrous tax cuts that are the main reason we went from surplus to massive deficit in the early 2000s. I blame both sides for this because Obama extended those tax cuts. Sure, in 2008 it would have been the wrong time to suddenly raise taxes, but they should have been phased out as the economy got stronger. I blame "both sides" for our massive overspending on defense, because despite the GOP rhetoric the Democrats have no real interest in cutting back defense spending any more than the Republicans do. But how the hell can anyone "blame both sides" for Trump's actions? Not only did the Democrats never support him, but they impeached him! It's on the GOP that he wasn't removed. It's on the GOP that the GOP can't get its act together and vote on an aid extension. It's on the GOP that in the middle of possibly the worst crisis since WW2, we have a President who cares more about his golf courses and his Twitter account than about running the country. It's on the GOP that in the middle of a world-wide pandemic we have a president who threw up every roadblock he could to any response because he was worried it might hurt his polls. Wow. What an analogy. Would you happen to have any article links from DuffelBlog or maybe The Onion to back up your argument? "Worst crisis since WW2". Wow. Drama queen much?
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