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Post by ironhammer on Oct 6, 2020 11:27:05 GMT -5
...what will happen?
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Post by mervinswerved on Oct 6, 2020 11:46:22 GMT -5
I presume you mean if he loses the election. In that case, the electors will meet in December and Joe Biden will be declared the winner. He'll be sworn in as President on January 20th and Trump will no longer be President.
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 6, 2020 11:51:55 GMT -5
No one knows. It probably depends a lot on the details.
For instance, John Oliver on Sunday discussed the potential case where election-day in person results favored Trump, but a full counting of all ballots favored Biden. Would Trump contest this? Damn sure he would.
Of course, as we all know, the "real" vote is the vote in the electoral college. But what if some governor announces that the vote in his state is in dispute, so he nominates his own slate of electors and they all happen to be Trump supporters. Would Biden contest this? Damn sure he would.
What if a clear majority of the popular vote is *again* for the Democrats, but one way or another either Trump wins the electoral college or it goes to a vote in the House? When the House votes for President, they vote *by state*, and there are currently by my count 26 states that have a majority of their Reps who are Republican.
I think the train is going to come right off the rails if it is absolutely clear that trump lost the popular vote *again*, but somehow he was named President by either the Electoral College or the House. That's some serious Belarus territory there.
Would the US military, for only the second time in history, be split on whether they accepted the results of the election?
This could easily become the worst Constitutional crisis since 1860.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 12:37:56 GMT -5
A concession is required. No one has not conceded. Gore pushed it as far as anyone, but even he decided not to keep contesting the election.
It's going to be a mess if Trump wants it to be a mess.
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Oct 6, 2020 12:38:16 GMT -5
In order for that to have to happen, there'd have to be people who were enthusiastic about voting for Joe Biden, other than the "foaming at the mouth White-Liberal" demographic.
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Post by mervinswerved on Oct 6, 2020 12:47:49 GMT -5
A concession is required. No one has not conceded. Gore pushed it as far as anyone, but even he decided not to keep contesting the election. It's going to be a mess if Trump wants it to be a mess. Where does it say a concession is required? Most likely scenario is that he bellyaches for a few days or a week and once he realizes nobody in American government is "with" him, he'll shut up. His other option is getting dragged out by Marshalls on inauguration day. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 12:48:34 GMT -5
Look 'er up.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 12:50:46 GMT -5
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Post by cindra on Oct 6, 2020 12:56:59 GMT -5
A concession is required. No one has not conceded. Gore pushed it as far as anyone, but even he decided not to keep contesting the election. It's going to be a mess if Trump wants it to be a mess. Where does it say a concession is required? Most likely scenario is that he bellyaches for a few days or a week and once he realizes nobody in American government is "with" him, he'll shut up. His other option is getting dragged out by Marshalls on inauguration day. This assumes, of course, that career soldiers and DoJ officials do their jobs and don't succumb to the inevitable pressure from the top. Probably likely that they follow protocol, but I'm not sure how deep the rot of replacing IGs and installing as many political appointees as possible goes. |
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Post by BearClause on Oct 6, 2020 13:10:29 GMT -5
A concession is required. No one has not conceded. Gore pushed it as far as anyone, but even he decided not to keep contesting the election. It's going to be a mess if Trump wants it to be a mess. There's no legal process involved in a "concession". That's purely ceremony without a legal basis in law. Now there is the aspect of whether or not a candidate might use legal processes such as recount laws or perhaps contest certain aspects of an election. It's got to be really close because some recount laws require that a candidate put up the cost of the recount and will pay for it unless the result changes. As far as the election for POTUS goes, there's really no need for a concession. It all goes through the Electoral College process. States will certify their results, the slate of electors will meet in each state capital, and the results are transmitted to Congress. This can all happen regardless of whether or not the presumptive loser in the race "concedes". So there are two issues. One is whether or not there's that ceremonial concession speech. Another is is they're looking to tie it up in the courts. There's certainly been talk of the Trump campaign trying to stop counting at some point claiming that they have to stop because of "fraud". |
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Post by mervinswerved on Oct 6, 2020 13:11:57 GMT -5
Where does it say a concession is required? Most likely scenario is that he bellyaches for a few days or a week and once he realizes nobody in American government is "with" him, he'll shut up. His other option is getting dragged out by Marshalls on inauguration day. This assumes, of course, that career soldiers and DoJ officials do their jobs and don't succumb to the inevitable pressure from the top. Probably likely that they follow protocol, but I'm not sure how deep the rot of replacing IGs and installing as many political appointees as possible goes. Consider me deeply skeptical any agency or branch of government will resist if Biden is elected. GOP will toss Trump overboard before Thanksgiving. A more likely threat is that he just stops governing entirely for two months before inauguration. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 6, 2020 13:14:16 GMT -5
The big problem is not what happens if Trump clearly loses the election and just refuses to concede. The big problem is what happens if the EC vote is ambiguous or disputed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 13:20:27 GMT -5
A concession is required. No one has not conceded. Gore pushed it as far as anyone, but even he decided not to keep contesting the election. It's going to be a mess if Trump wants it to be a mess. There's no legal process involved in a "concession". That's purely ceremony without a legal basis in law. Now there is the aspect of whether or not a candidate might use legal processes such as recount laws or perhaps contest certain aspects of an election. It's got to be really close because some recount laws require that a candidate put up the cost of the recount and will pay for it unless the result changes. As far as the election for POTUS goes, there's really no need for a concession. It all goes through the Electoral College process. States will certify their results, the slate of electors will meet in each state capital, and the results are transmitted to Congress. This can all happen regardless of whether or not the presumptive loser in the race "concedes". So there are two issues. One is whether or not there's that ceremonial concession speech. Another is is they're looking to tie it up in the courts. There's certainly been talk of the Trump campaign trying to stop counting at some point claiming that they have to stop because of "fraud". I recommend the Atlantic article. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 6, 2020 13:21:05 GMT -5
There's no legal process involved in a "concession". That's purely ceremony without a legal basis in law. True, but it's still valuable. I mean, picture all the Kyle Rittenhouses in the US after Trump loses but goes on TV and Twitter saying the election was stolen from him. How many of them are going to take to the streets? It could be a real mess, and a lot of people get hurt. Or maybe not. Nobody knows for sure. The only thing I do know for sure is that Putin is loving this. Such a huge payoff for his investment in Trump. |
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Post by cindra on Oct 6, 2020 13:23:58 GMT -5
This assumes, of course, that career soldiers and DoJ officials do their jobs and don't succumb to the inevitable pressure from the top. Probably likely that they follow protocol, but I'm not sure how deep the rot of replacing IGs and installing as many political appointees as possible goes. Consider me deeply skeptical any agency or branch of government will resist if Biden is elected. GOP will toss Trump overboard before Thanksgiving. A more likely threat is that he just stops governing entirely for two months before inauguration. I agree, but there will be immense pressure from Barr/Trump for the machinery to grind to a halt unless there is a landslide win and zero doubt at all. I don't think that people will straight up not listen to the results, but I think there will be a lot of attempts to cast doubts on the results through the use of government power |
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