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Post by bbg95 on Jul 12, 2022 21:30:25 GMT -5
Can you imagine if Dodson hadn't moved from outside back to middle (because of an injury to Eschenberg)  ? Livingston is my pick for CPOY. Her high contact on this particular team is a cherished quality. It was a gamble to have Dodson move back to MB because BYU had put a lot of time into getting her transitioned to OH. She was not the protype BYU athlete. She had all the physical skills to be a good front row player at multiple positions, but I just don't know if she had the big time arm swing to be elite at OH. Maybe she could have developed out there over a 2 year period? I really liked her athletic ability and she obviously saved the day in the Middle with the injuries forcing her back to MB. But, again, the coaching conversation with her at the end of the season was blunt and basically told her that OH would have to be her spot if she wanted to break through for playing time. My guess is that she wasn't too thrilled with her options as it was evident that the MB spots were not going to be hers. She was a teener and that is a hard spot to be in. If she was 6'3" or taller things would probably have ended differently for her. The Dodson move to outside was one of the few recent coaching decisions that I didn't really understand. She could play on the outside, but it felt a little forced because the pins were pretty uncertain going into that season after Miller graduated and Robinson transferred (not that Robinson would have been the answer anyway). And when Dodson moved back to the middle, she was clearly very comfortable in her natural position. If she had stayed, it would have allowed Gneiting to redshirt after her mission, but Gneiting got back to excellent form faster than I thought she would. My understanding was that Dodson transferred because she wanted to be closer to home, and she went to Northwestern, which is about as close as a Chicago girl can get. I didn't think her height was a problem. When I was in college, BYU had a very good middle blocker in Rachel Dyer who was 6'1", the same as Dodson. Her height never seemed to limit her. |
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 12, 2022 22:14:16 GMT -5
LDS or non-LDS, BYU gets in trouble when they get kids that are just happy to be there and are mentally and physically soft. That has always been the outside criticism of BYU for as long as I can remember. That was NOT RJP or anyone else from that final four team and it started with RJP and Haddock-Eppich. Both players, but especially RJP in that OH1 spot was tough as nails, mentally and physically. She was that way ever since I first watched her--not always the most refined or polished, but the kid always played hard. And, with Utah not recruiting her, RJP always seemed to play with a bit of a chip on her shoulder at BYU. Same with Ciara Parker--tough kid, especially mentally, who was also not a LDS kid but always seemed to have something to prove. In my opinion, that is why they both did well at BYU--they had something to prove. Never felt that way with Allen--quite the opposite. My past posts reflect that. And, boy did it cost us a golden opportunity last year....Ah crap, I am spiraling back into my bad thoughts of what might have been. I may have to go back to therapy. Yeah, mental toughness is very important for any sport. In volleyball, I think certain positions are especially important to have mentally tough players, namely setter, libero and at least one go-to hitter. This is one of the reasons I'm such a big fan of Whitney Bower. I distinctly remember BYU getting crushed by Pepperdine in the spring 2021 season and Bower getting benched. At the time, it looked like the season was on the line because if BYU lost to Pepperdine again and couldn't beat San Diego (the preseason favorite and defending WCC champion), they'd be at real risk to miss the 48-team tournament entirely. The next night, Bower had an absolutely monster match (8-0-11, .727, 46 assists, 26 digs, 4 blocks, 3 aces), the best of her career so far in my view. That told me everything I needed to know about her. When the chips are down, you need players who won't crack. Hopefully, the next libero has that mental fortitude. |
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Post by azvb on Jul 13, 2022 12:37:48 GMT -5
Another dynamic Heather (and all BYU coaches) deal with is players going on missions and players getting married. Are athletes more inclined to put in extra time if they’re married? I have no data, but I’m gonna say no. Along with school and the team, marriage is another commitment the athlete has, and less time to devote to their sport.
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 13, 2022 14:07:03 GMT -5
Another dynamic Heather (and all BYU coaches) deal with is players going on missions and players getting married. Are athletes more inclined to put in extra time if they’re married? I have no data, but I’m gonna say no. Along with school and the team, marriage is another commitment the athlete has, and less time to devote to their sport. Probably depends on the athlete. If you're married but don't have kids, I often think you have less distractions, not more. The missions are a fairly unique factor for BYU (though in sports like football, there are quite a few schools that have LDS athletes who go on missions). I read an interesting article the other day about how LaVell Edwards changed his mindset on missions (BYU football apparently used to highly discourage players from serving missions). |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 14, 2022 10:54:01 GMT -5
LDS or non-LDS, BYU gets in trouble when they get kids that are just happy to be there and are mentally and physically soft. That has always been the outside criticism of BYU for as long as I can remember. That was NOT RJP or anyone else from that final four team and it started with RJP and Haddock-Eppich. Both players, but especially RJP in that OH1 spot was tough as nails, mentally and physically. She was that way ever since I first watched her--not always the most refined or polished, but the kid always played hard. And, with Utah not recruiting her, RJP always seemed to play with a bit of a chip on her shoulder at BYU. Same with Ciara Parker--tough kid, especially mentally, who was also not a LDS kid but always seemed to have something to prove. In my opinion, that is why they both did well at BYU--they had something to prove. Never felt that way with Allen--quite the opposite. My past posts reflect that. And, boy did it cost us a golden opportunity last year....Ah crap, I am spiraling back into my bad thoughts of what might have been. I may have to go back to therapy. Mintonetteman - I couldn't agree more with your post!! |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 14, 2022 11:45:32 GMT -5
LDS or non-LDS, BYU gets in trouble when they get kids that are just happy to be there and are mentally and physically soft. That has always been the outside criticism of BYU for as long as I can remember. That was NOT RJP or anyone else from that final four team and it started with RJP and Haddock-Eppich. Both players, but especially RJP in that OH1 spot was tough as nails, mentally and physically. She was that way ever since I first watched her--not always the most refined or polished, but the kid always played hard. And, with Utah not recruiting her, RJP always seemed to play with a bit of a chip on her shoulder at BYU. Same with Ciara Parker--tough kid, especially mentally, who was also not a LDS kid but always seemed to have something to prove. In my opinion, that is why they both did well at BYU--they had something to prove. Never felt that way with Allen--quite the opposite. My past posts reflect that. And, boy did it cost us a golden opportunity last year....Ah crap, I am spiraling back into my bad thoughts of what might have been. I may have to go back to therapy. Yeah, mental toughness is very important for any sport. In volleyball, I think certain positions are especially important to have mentally tough players, namely setter, libero and at least one go-to hitter. This is one of the reasons I'm such a big fan of Whitney Bower. I distinctly remember BYU getting crushed by Pepperdine in the spring 2021 season and Bower getting benched. At the time, it looked like the season was on the line because if BYU lost to Pepperdine again and couldn't beat San Diego (the preseason favorite and defending WCC champion), they'd be at real risk to miss the 48-team tournament entirely. The next night, Bower had an absolutely monster match (8-0-11, .727, 46 assists, 26 digs, 4 blocks, 3 aces), the best of her career so far in my view. That told me everything I needed to know about her. When the chips are down, you need players who won't crack. Hopefully, the next libero has that mental fortitude. bbg - I am in 100% agreement with you on the mental toughness issue in vb. Some players really focus in practice and actually play better in practice than when the lights go on in matches. It would be hard for me to count the number of players who would make our starting 6 based alone on practice competition, but when other role players are allowed into matches they sometimes rise to the occasion and perform not only better than they do in practice but better than the "starters" do in matches. I refer to them as "gamers" and they very often show the character traits you list as tough as nails, mentally and physically tough athletes. The issue that most coaches over look is that you have to find the gamers in your program and that oftentimes means you have to play role players enough in pressure situations that they show you what they are made of. Heather doesn't do a good job of this. I think it is a weakness of hers. She has maybe the shortest bench of all Sweet 16 teams over her tenure as head BYU vb coach. There was a player who was on the BYU roster that demolished very good competition in club and then she was regulated to the bench for her whole career at the Y. She was probably the key to winning a national championship or at least getting BYU into the match the year that Mck Miller went down with an ACL. I heard that personalities not messing was the reason she wasn't given a shot and Maddie Rob was inserted into the lineup instead of a much taller 6' 4" Lewis girl. Most club coaches were dumbfounded that Lewis wasn't given playing time by Olmstead over the course of her 4 yr career. Some believe that Heather shy's away from allowing pure competition in the matches because it may result in showing that so and so it actually better than Heather's picked starter. I know you love W Bower. I think she is a good setter but not a special setter at all. Other then Heather and Bower's mom there aren't any club or college coaches I know that think Bower can lead a team to a final 4 or even an elite 8 finish. She simply has area's of her game that aren't elite. Meyer was an elite athlete and solved the short comings of Bower. Now, the argument could be made that without Meyer playing with the bright lights on in the SFH what we really don't know if she was that good. I think that is a valid point. But to never allow Meyer on the court wasn't the answer either. Bower wasn't so good as to keep Meyer from ever entering a match. Many believe that Olmstead did that on purpose because she didn't/couldn't afford to be wrong on which athlete was a better setter and could lead the team to a higher national finish. I would have put Meyer on the court. I also believe that Hifo had better ball placement than Bower. Hifo was challenged in ways that Bower wasn't but she also had areas where she was simply better than Bower was. BYU will get to the end of the W Bower era and have no wins higher than the round of 32 and that is sad because the roster has been filled with All-Americans for Bower to play with on that front row. |
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 14, 2022 12:04:13 GMT -5
Yeah, mental toughness is very important for any sport. In volleyball, I think certain positions are especially important to have mentally tough players, namely setter, libero and at least one go-to hitter. This is one of the reasons I'm such a big fan of Whitney Bower. I distinctly remember BYU getting crushed by Pepperdine in the spring 2021 season and Bower getting benched. At the time, it looked like the season was on the line because if BYU lost to Pepperdine again and couldn't beat San Diego (the preseason favorite and defending WCC champion), they'd be at real risk to miss the 48-team tournament entirely. The next night, Bower had an absolutely monster match (8-0-11, .727, 46 assists, 26 digs, 4 blocks, 3 aces), the best of her career so far in my view. That told me everything I needed to know about her. When the chips are down, you need players who won't crack. Hopefully, the next libero has that mental fortitude. bbg - I am in 100% agreement with you on the mental toughness issue in vb. Some players really focus in practice and actually play better in practice than when the lights go on in matches. It would be hard for me to count the number of players who would make our starting 6 based alone on practice competition, but when other role players are allowed into matches they sometimes rise to the occasion and perform not only better than they do in practice but better than the "starters" do in matches. I refer to them as "gamers" and they very often show the character traits you list as tough as nails, mentally and physically tough athletes. The issue that most coaches over look is that you have to find the gamers in your program and that oftentimes means you have to play role players enough in pressure situations that they show you what they are made of. Heather doesn't do a good job of this. I think it is a weakness of hers. She has maybe the shortest bench of all Sweet 16 teams over her tenure as head BYU vb coach. There was a player who was on the BYU roster that demolished very good competition in club and then she was regulated to the bench for her whole career at the Y. She was probably the key to winning a national championship or at least getting BYU into the match the year that Mck Miller went down with an ACL. I heard that personalities not messing was the reason she wasn't given a shot and Maddie Rob was inserted into the lineup instead of a much taller 6' 4" Lewis girl. Most club coaches were dumbfounded that Lewis wasn't given playing time by Olmstead over the course of her 4 yr career. Some believe that Heather shy's away from allowing pure competition in the matches because it may result in showing that so and so it actually better than Heather's picked starter. I know you love W Bower. I think she is a good setter but not a special setter at all. Other then Heather and Bower's mom there aren't any club or college coaches I know that think Bower can lead a team to a final 4 or even an elite 8 finish. She simply has area's of her game that aren't elite. Meyer was an elite athlete and solved the short comings of Bower. Now, the argument could be made that without Meyer playing with the bright lights on in the SFH what we really don't know if she was that good. I think that is a valid point. But to never allow Meyer on the court wasn't the answer either. Bower wasn't so good as to keep Meyer from ever entering a match. Many believe that Olmstead did that on purpose because she didn't/couldn't afford to be wrong on which athlete was a better setter and could lead the team to a higher national finish. I would have put Meyer on the court. I also believe that Hifo had better ball placement than Bower. Hifo was challenged in ways that Bower wasn't but she also had areas where she was simply better than Bower was. BYU will get to the end of the W Bower era and have no wins higher than the round of 32 and that is sad because the roster has been filled with All-Americans for Bower to play with on that front row. Whitney Bower doesn't pass (the team's major weakness), and she was a major reason BYU hit .330 as a team last season. She was the best player in the entire WCC in the spring 2021 season and was probably the second-best player in the fall (due to Koerber transferring in). She's not the problem. Blaming her would be like blaming Joe Burrow for the Bengals not winning the Super Bowl last season. He did as well as he could with that garbage offensive line, and Bower did as well as she could with suspect passing. The criticism of the 2018 team is even more bizarre. They made the Final Four and were ranked No. 1 for the majority of the season. I don't think there was any personnel substitution that would have changed the outcome--Stanford just played much better in the Final Four. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 15, 2022 0:37:04 GMT -5
Couple of points: Bower wasn't the main reason that BYU hit .330 as a team last season. The very weak/bad WCC and the next to horrible non-conf schedule was the reason for that stat. You have to know that. Look at the only 3 tough matches that BYU had the entire fall 2021 season. Weber St, Pitt and Purdue. Maybe you should compare those hitting percentages to the season averages? Bower is not elite. She isn't invited to team/USA camps and she won't be playing for the chance to be on the national teams. She is a serviceable setter that is the best one currently in the WCC. But San Diego has had much better setters than Bower come through their program over the last 5-6 years. I didn't criticize the 2018 team. I criticized the refusal of Olmstead to play a girl that had a much higher upside than Maddie Rob at that point in time. A girl who was 6 inches taller and had a jump touch that was about 1 ft higher than Maddie. Everyone with the BYU program knows what I am talking about. Poor coaching decision. My comment had nothing to do with the 2018 team in general. Bower will not be blamed for her weaknesses until BYU gets to the Sweet 16 level because teams don't or can't figure out how to attack BYU (except Weber St, Pitt and Purdue) until the elite teams have time to properly prepare for BYU. Actually, the NCAA tourney matches yield a good measuring stick because that is where talented coaches put in the time to scout BYU. Look at the vaunted hitting percentages of BYU's hitters in those matches. Purdue simply didn't allow Bower to get off her dumps and put up very effective blocks on almost all BYU hitters. Then look at the hitting percentages over W Bower on the front row. It will always happen this way when teams get to the final 16 or higher. Coaches will figure out how to take advantage of weaknesses on the front row of BYU. Take out Bower and insert LHE and you get a very different result. She could block with the best setters in the country. She was stronger than Bower and had better ball placement.
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 15, 2022 0:41:12 GMT -5
Once again marnvb you’ve got the whole Zayna Meyer story wrong. It’s not really mine to tell but Heather Olmstead is not to blame for Meyer not playing that’s all I will say. So maybe stop pretending you know everything and placing blame when you don’t even have all the info The only info I need to point at is that Meyer had better physical abilities on the front row than Bower. Meyer played at a higher level in every single club season than Bower ever did. Meyer should have played some as a freshman and that is an easy observation to make. Meyer was 6 inches taller and just as quick as Bower. Don't be so touchy about Meyer and Bower. |
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 15, 2022 0:52:10 GMT -5
Couple of points: Bower wasn't the main reason that BYU hit .330 as a team last season. The very weak/bad WCC and the next to horrible non-conf schedule was the reason for that stat. You have to know that. Look at the only 3 tough matches that BYU had the entire fall 2021 season. Weber St, Pitt and Purdue. Maybe you should compare those hitting percentages to the season averages? Bower is not elite. She isn't invited to team/USA camps and she won't be playing for the chance to be on the national teams. She is a serviceable setter that is the best one currently in the WCC. But San Diego has had much better setters than Bower come through their program over the last 5-6 years. I didn't criticize the 2018 team. I criticized the refusal of Olmstead to play a girl that had a much higher upside than Maddie Rob at that point in time. A girl who was 6 inches taller and had a jump touch that was about 1 ft higher than Maddie. Everyone with the BYU program knows what I am talking about. Poor coaching decision. My comment had nothing to do with the 2018 team in general. Bower will not be blamed for her weaknesses until BYU gets to the Sweet 16 level because teams don't or can't figure out how to attack BYU (except Weber St, Pitt and Purdue) until the elite teams have time to properly prepare for BYU. Actually, the NCAA tourney matches yield a good measuring stick because that is where talented coaches put in the time to scout BYU. Look at the vaunted hitting percentages of BYU's hitters in those matches. Purdue simply didn't allow Bower to get off her dumps and put up very effective blocks on almost all BYU hitters. Then look at the hitting percentages over W Bower on the front row. It will always happen this way when teams get to the final 16 or higher. Coaches will figure out how to take advantage of weaknesses on the front row of BYU. Take out Bower and insert LHE and you get a very different result. She could block with the best setters in the country. She was stronger than Bower and had better ball placement. Do you really not understand that the team's primary issue is passing (which Bower by definition can't be responsible for, since she's the setter) and that Bower is actually probably the biggest reason (due to her mobility and accuracy) that BYU can get away with suspect passing most of the time? If you want to argue that LHE was better, I won't push back too much, since she was a first-team All-American (though to be fair, she actually had good passers to make her job easier). But come on. If you want to see what mediocre setting actually looks like, just check out San Diego's setting in the last two seasons. |
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 15, 2022 10:22:56 GMT -5
The only info I need to point at is that Meyer had better physical abilities on the front row than Bower. Meyer played at a higher level in every single club season than Bower ever did. Meyer should have played some as a freshman and that is an easy observation to make. Meyer was 6 inches taller and just as quick as Bower. Don't be so touchy about Meyer and Bower. I’m not disagreeing with you about Meyers abilities vs Bowers. I’m saying Olmstead and co is not the ones to blame for Meyer not playing. There is more to the story that you’re clearly unaware of. I have no idea what you're alluding to, and it's not like I was watching practice all the time, but I thought it was perfectly sensible that Meyer would redshirt. The one time I did see her play was the blue/white scrimmage, and while she did look very athletic, her setting was a bit spotty. Granted, that's a small sample size, but still. I just don't think there was any world where she was going to be better last season than Bower was. Anyway, it doesn't really matter anymore. She transferred, BYU still has a good setter, and they have highly-regarded setters coming in future recruiting classes. I think they'll be fine. |
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Post by alpo on Jul 15, 2022 17:55:21 GMT -5
I’m not disagreeing with you about Meyers abilities vs Bowers. I’m saying Olmstead and co is not the ones to blame for Meyer not playing. There is more to the story that you’re clearly unaware of. I have no idea what you're alluding to, and it's not like I was watching practice all the time, but I thought it was perfectly sensible that Meyer would redshirt. The one time I did see her play was the blue/white scrimmage, and while she did look very athletic, her setting was a bit spotty. Granted, that's a small sample size, but still. I just don't think there was any world where she was going to be better last season than Bower was. Unfortunately, the Meyers vs Bowers argument is moot...although I'd be curious to pick Hujak's mind as he seems to opine that he is the keeper of the Meyer "true story". If Meyers were around she would have gotten my vote. I have read the opinions on Briley, Damuni and the transfer (sorry I don't know her name) they seem to have a solid track record athletically...but, I don't think they'll beat out Bowers' experience. Overall...as has been alluded to on this thread it will be interesting to truly see who separates themselves athletically and mentally. I feel BYU's volleyball talent pool will only get stronger on the pins and in the middle...we'll see about the defensive side...but, I am excited to see who steps up in all the other areas. I will also look forward to how Heather and the coaching staff handle/prep the athletes in 2022 in preparation for 2023's higher competition...it will be a survival of the fittest and separation of the wheat from the tares...cliches abound  |
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 15, 2022 18:04:28 GMT -5
I have no idea what you're alluding to, and it's not like I was watching practice all the time, but I thought it was perfectly sensible that Meyer would redshirt. The one time I did see her play was the blue/white scrimmage, and while she did look very athletic, her setting was a bit spotty. Granted, that's a small sample size, but still. I just don't think there was any world where she was going to be better last season than Bower was. Unfortunately, the Meyers vs Bowers argument is moot...although I'd be curious to pick Hujak's mind as he seems to opine that he is the keeper of the Meyer "true story". If Meyers were around she would have gotten my vote. I have read the opinions on Briley, Damuni and the transfer (sorry I don't know her name) they seem to have a solid track record athletically...but, I don't think they'll beat out Bowers' experience. Overall...as has been alluded to on this thread it will be interesting to truly see who separates themselves athletically and mentally. I feel BYU's volleyball talent pool will only get stronger on the pins and in the middle...we'll see about the defensive side...but, I am excited to see who steps up in all the other areas. I will also look forward to how Heather and the coaching staff handle/prep the athletes in 2022 in preparation for 2023's higher competition...it will be a survival of the fittest and separation of the wheat from the tares...cliches abound Yeah, they have lots of talent pretty much everywhere except passing (floor defense is good). But passing is pretty important, so they're hopefully fixing it. As for moving to the Big 12, Heather said in an interview not that long ago that the 2022 team is focused on the WCC because that's where they'll be playing, but they're really talking up the move to the Big 12 in recruiting, and the team's focus will obviously shift to the Big 12 after this season is complete. I expect BYU to do well in the Big 12 right away. The Big 12 is stronger than the WCC top to bottom, but I think BYU should be able to compete, since they've already established as a strong program. It helps that BYU's recruiting class in 2023 in my opinion has the chance to be one of their best recruiting classes ever. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 16, 2022 16:09:51 GMT -5
I gave you the 2 L's off the 17 V 2 team. They were used a lot like the V 17-1 team in that they appeared to have the constant crazy Carlson switching back and forth game plan for each set/match. I watched a couple of sets and they are both legit even though there is zero blocking structure to force a path in the club V system. They are located right in Heather's backyard and one of them will probably pan out. It appears that Utah locked one up just a week ago. T Allen committed to SJSU and she is a diamond in the rough. She could start at L for almost every Pac12 school right now. She is one of the the top 4 passers I have seen in the past 20 years and a tremendous athlete. I mentioned her to a couple of SoCal schools but they were full or didn't feel they needed another passer. Again, the top club teams always have more recruits than lesser, non national open teams/clubs. But, even though it is harder to recruit by scouring the lesser teams, there are some big time athletes out there and in many cases they will turn out better than the more hyped large club (middle of the road) players. |
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BYU 2022
Jul 16, 2022 16:13:41 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by beba on Jul 16, 2022 16:13:41 GMT -5
No, you didn't...
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