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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 16, 2022 17:02:05 GMT -5
Couple of points: Bower wasn't the main reason that BYU hit .330 as a team last season. The very weak/bad WCC and the next to horrible non-conf schedule was the reason for that stat. You have to know that. Look at the only 3 tough matches that BYU had the entire fall 2021 season. Weber St, Pitt and Purdue. Maybe you should compare those hitting percentages to the season averages? Bower is not elite. She isn't invited to team/USA camps and she won't be playing for the chance to be on the national teams. She is a serviceable setter that is the best one currently in the WCC. But San Diego has had much better setters than Bower come through their program over the last 5-6 years. I didn't criticize the 2018 team. I criticized the refusal of Olmstead to play a girl that had a much higher upside than Maddie Rob at that point in time. A girl who was 6 inches taller and had a jump touch that was about 1 ft higher than Maddie. Everyone with the BYU program knows what I am talking about. Poor coaching decision. My comment had nothing to do with the 2018 team in general. Bower will not be blamed for her weaknesses until BYU gets to the Sweet 16 level because teams don't or can't figure out how to attack BYU (except Weber St, Pitt and Purdue) until the elite teams have time to properly prepare for BYU. Actually, the NCAA tourney matches yield a good measuring stick because that is where talented coaches put in the time to scout BYU. Look at the vaunted hitting percentages of BYU's hitters in those matches. Purdue simply didn't allow Bower to get off her dumps and put up very effective blocks on almost all BYU hitters. Then look at the hitting percentages over W Bower on the front row. It will always happen this way when teams get to the final 16 or higher. Coaches will figure out how to take advantage of weaknesses on the front row of BYU. Take out Bower and insert LHE and you get a very different result. She could block with the best setters in the country. She was stronger than Bower and had better ball placement. Do you really not understand that the team's primary issue is passing (which Bower by definition can't be responsible for, since she's the setter) and that Bower is actually probably the biggest reason (due to her mobility and accuracy) that BYU can get away with suspect passing most of the time? If you want to argue that LHE was better, I won't push back too much, since she was a first-team All-American (though to be fair, she actually had good passers to make her job easier). But come on. If you want to see what mediocre setting actually looks like, just check out San Diego's setting in the last two seasons. bbg95, you have no argument from me on mediocre setting from the San Diego squad the past 3 years or so. They lost their last good setter and also their good L the same year and they haven't been the same since. I just don't want to get caught up in the argument that if a player in the WCC was voted first or second team all league that they are automatically anointed "great players" because the league is so bad that being at the top of it isn't a huge feather in anyone's cap. They may be great players, like H Gneiting, K Eschenberg and Kenzie K. But they might not be either like Grimmer or Nixon. Those 3 I just mentioned were all top 8 players in their positions nationwide. Bower isn't a top 25 setter in this country. She might be top 40. LHE was a top 3 setter or higher. Maybe it isn't fair, but W Bower did have Mary Lake right off the bat and still Bower struggled with form and accuracy. The ability to set a ball while doing the splits with regularity is very flashy but it is crazy bad coaching and sabotages accuracy. I am glad that BYU coached that out of her. I feel that me pointing out the weaknesses of Bower is a lightening rod for some, but BYU and especially Olmstead have to get a reality check on where their team is weak so they can address the issues. They have not played tough enough schedules to reveal their weaknesses until it is too late. This is a coaching issue. Besides poor passing, the other area is front row setting/blocking by Bower. This fact will only come to the surface against elite level teams. It always seems to surprise BYU that they lose in the sweet 16 or to teams that they are probably better than (Marquette) but the weaknesses that they refuse to address magnify themselves the better the competition is. Bower is a good setter. I just believe that she will never lead BYU to the elite 8 or higher because of these issues we talk about. She is a good server and a borderline great defender. She is slightly better than average with ball placement and selection. She isn't super neutral so Purdue was able to read her pretty well. She is very competitive and is a winner, but she is a very average to poor blocker against elite OH's. Of course BYU gets away with Bower's lack of blocking in the WCC and most preseason matches because of the collective poor competition. It lulls them into a false sense of security when they shouldn't be secure at all .... |
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 16, 2022 19:27:42 GMT -5
Do you really not understand that the team's primary issue is passing (which Bower by definition can't be responsible for, since she's the setter) and that Bower is actually probably the biggest reason (due to her mobility and accuracy) that BYU can get away with suspect passing most of the time? If you want to argue that LHE was better, I won't push back too much, since she was a first-team All-American (though to be fair, she actually had good passers to make her job easier). But come on. If you want to see what mediocre setting actually looks like, just check out San Diego's setting in the last two seasons. bbg95, you have no argument from me on mediocre setting from the San Diego squad the past 3 years or so. They lost their last good setter and also their good L the same year and they haven't been the same since. I just don't want to get caught up in the argument that if a player in the WCC was voted first or second team all league that they are automatically anointed "great players" because the league is so bad that being at the top of it isn't a huge feather in anyone's cap. They may be great players, like H Gneiting, K Eschenberg and Kenzie K. But they might not be either like Grimmer or Nixon. Those 3 I just mentioned were all top 8 players in their positions nationwide. Bower isn't a top 25 setter in this country. She might be top 40. LHE was a top 3 setter or higher. Maybe it isn't fair, but W Bower did have Mary Lake right off the bat and still Bower struggled with form and accuracy. The ability to set a ball while doing the splits with regularity is very flashy but it is crazy bad coaching and sabotages accuracy. I am glad that BYU coached that out of her. I feel that me pointing out the weaknesses of Bower is a lightening rod for some, but BYU and especially Olmstead have to get a reality check on where their team is weak so they can address the issues. They have not played tough enough schedules to reveal their weaknesses until it is too late. This is a coaching issue. Besides poor passing, the other area is front row setting/blocking by Bower. This fact will only come to the surface against elite level teams. It always seems to surprise BYU that they lose in the sweet 16 or to teams that they are probably better than (Marquette) but the weaknesses that they refuse to address magnify themselves the better the competition is. Bower is a good setter. I just believe that she will never lead BYU to the elite 8 or higher because of these issues we talk about. She is a good server and a borderline great defender. She is slightly better than average with ball placement and selection. She isn't super neutral so Purdue was able to read her pretty well. She is very competitive and is a winner, but she is a very average to poor blocker against elite OH's. Of course BYU gets away with Bower's lack of blocking in the WCC and most preseason matches because of the collective poor competition. It lulls them into a false sense of security when they shouldn't be secure at all .... I don't think BYU has ever lost a match because of Bower's blocking. When they lose, it's nearly always because their passing breaks down. LHE was a great blocking setter, but it didn't matter in the Final Four against Stanford because the passing was a catastrophe. If Bower's below-average blocking is the biggest issue on the team, that means they've solved their passing issues. And if that happens, then they should be in great shape. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 17, 2022 10:52:14 GMT -5
Just reread your comments about Bower being the second best player in the WCC last fall behind Koerber. You really think that Bower was a better player at her position than Gneiting and Esh were? I think not! I don't think it is even close.
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 17, 2022 11:01:11 GMT -5
Yep I did. Go back and read my posts prior to the Utah signing of the L off club V. There is still one more high quality L off that same V 2 team and I might add that a quality MB exists there also. Not hard to figure out. Staying close to BYU so as not to require a lot of work. I would go get the L/DS and pair her up with Miller. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 17, 2022 11:18:22 GMT -5
bbg95, you have no argument from me on mediocre setting from the San Diego squad the past 3 years or so. They lost their last good setter and also their good L the same year and they haven't been the same since. I just don't want to get caught up in the argument that if a player in the WCC was voted first or second team all league that they are automatically anointed "great players" because the league is so bad that being at the top of it isn't a huge feather in anyone's cap. They may be great players, like H Gneiting, K Eschenberg and Kenzie K. But they might not be either like Grimmer or Nixon. Those 3 I just mentioned were all top 8 players in their positions nationwide. Bower isn't a top 25 setter in this country. She might be top 40. LHE was a top 3 setter or higher. Maybe it isn't fair, but W Bower did have Mary Lake right off the bat and still Bower struggled with form and accuracy. The ability to set a ball while doing the splits with regularity is very flashy but it is crazy bad coaching and sabotages accuracy. I am glad that BYU coached that out of her. I feel that me pointing out the weaknesses of Bower is a lightening rod for some, but BYU and especially Olmstead have to get a reality check on where their team is weak so they can address the issues. They have not played tough enough schedules to reveal their weaknesses until it is too late. This is a coaching issue. Besides poor passing, the other area is front row setting/blocking by Bower. This fact will only come to the surface against elite level teams. It always seems to surprise BYU that they lose in the sweet 16 or to teams that they are probably better than (Marquette) but the weaknesses that they refuse to address magnify themselves the better the competition is. Bower is a good setter. I just believe that she will never lead BYU to the elite 8 or higher because of these issues we talk about. She is a good server and a borderline great defender. She is slightly better than average with ball placement and selection. She isn't super neutral so Purdue was able to read her pretty well. She is very competitive and is a winner, but she is a very average to poor blocker against elite OH's. Of course BYU gets away with Bower's lack of blocking in the WCC and most preseason matches because of the collective poor competition. It lulls them into a false sense of security when they shouldn't be secure at all .... I don't think BYU has ever lost a match because of Bower's blocking. When they lose, it's nearly always because their passing breaks down. LHE was a great blocking setter, but it didn't matter in the Final Four against Stanford because the passing was a catastrophe. If Bower's below-average blocking is the biggest issue on the team, that means they've solved their passing issues. And if that happens, then they should be in great shape. Maybe you ought to rewatch the Weber St match and see where Weber focused their offense. Then watch ball placement and blocking vs Pitt. Lastly watch the Purdue match every time Bower is on the front row. Setting decisions on dumps, not staying neutral, not using the MB's enough in the offense, and the Purdue OH's who consistently went right over Bower to find the BYU back row. Forgetting Bower for a while ..... because the pro Bower crowd will never admit that the girl is 5'6" and can't block well ..... but SD and A Bower are going to give BYU the same problem W Bower has. Both SD and A Bower, while talled than W Bower have less hops than she does. None of the 3 are good high level blockers. BYU will have a flaw in that area for the next 6 years and if there is one program that can't afford to not have an elite level blocker vs good OH's ....... putting even more pressure on their backrow ..... it is BYU! Enough said. |
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 17, 2022 11:18:42 GMT -5
Just reread your comments about Bower being the second best player in the WCC last fall behind Koerber. You really think that Bower was a better player at her position than Gneiting and Esh were? I think not! I don't think it is even close. Yes. She was WCC Player of the Year in the spring, and Eschenberg was on that team. Also, both Eschenberg and Gneiting don't play six rotations. |
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 17, 2022 11:24:14 GMT -5
I don't think BYU has ever lost a match because of Bower's blocking. When they lose, it's nearly always because their passing breaks down. LHE was a great blocking setter, but it didn't matter in the Final Four against Stanford because the passing was a catastrophe. If Bower's below-average blocking is the biggest issue on the team, that means they've solved their passing issues. And if that happens, then they should be in great shape. Maybe you ought to rewatch the Weber St match and see where Weber focused their offense. Then watch ball placement and blocking vs Pitt. Lastly watch the Purdue match every time Bower is on the front row. Setting decisions on dumps, not staying neutral, not using the MB's enough in the offense, and the Purdue OH's who consistently went right over Bower to find the BYU back row. Forgetting Bower for a while ..... because the pro Bower crowd will never admit that the girl is 5'6" and can't block well ..... but SD and A Bower are going to give BYU the same problem W Bower has. Both SD and A Bower, while talled than W Bower have less hops than she does. None of the 3 are good high level blockers. BYU will have a flaw in that area for the next 6 years and if there is one program that can't afford to not have an elite level blocker vs good OH's ....... putting even more pressure on their backrow ..... it is BYU! Enough said. Obviously, teams will try to hit over a shorter setter. That doesn't mean that their losses are due to that. As I said, it's almost always about passing. And the back row defense is perfectly fine. It's the passing that's the problem. Also, respectfully, you need to stop saying that Bower is 5'6" because then you have absolutely zero credibility whatsoever. She is a shorter setter, no doubt about that. But she's not 5'6". And no one is claiming that she's a great blocker. Obviously, she is not, though that weakness is pretty overblown when you consider everything else she does. |
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BYU 2022
Jul 17, 2022 12:00:51 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by beba on Jul 17, 2022 12:00:51 GMT -5
Yep I did. Go back and read my posts prior to the Utah signing of the L off club V. There is still one more high quality L off that same V 2 team and I might add that a quality MB exists there also. Not hard to figure out. Staying close to BYU so as not to require a lot of work. I would go get the L/DS and pair her up with Miller. No, you didn't, and you still don't. You day things like "Not hard to figure out". Why are you so afraid to say a name? |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jul 17, 2022 21:49:12 GMT -5
I don't know their names, only their numbers. If you can't look up their names then I doubt you really need them! There are only 2 L's/DS's on that V team so your search isn't a hard one.
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Post by beba on Jul 18, 2022 0:46:02 GMT -5
I don't know their names, only their numbers. If you can't look up their names then I doubt you really need them! There are only 2 L's/DS's on that V team so your search isn't a hard one. Ha ha ha ha ha... Our self-proclaimed expert on the "elite" back row players that BYU should be recruiting doesn't even know their names! Lot of good you are. |
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BYU 2022
Jul 18, 2022 7:53:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by rrvbfan on Jul 18, 2022 7:53:35 GMT -5
Omg….. 17v (what you are calling the 2s team but they told the parents/kids that the teams were equal and both 1s).
1 Ioana Asiata OH 5'11 9'9 2023 Herriman
2 Aubrey Nielsen OH 5'10 9'8 2023 Davis
4 Kaylin Scott S 5'9" 9'3" 2023 Mountain View
6 Ava Nakai OH 5'11" 10' 2024 Spanish Fork
7 Eve Wilson MB 6'3" 10'.5" 2023 Skyline
8 Hannah Hawkins S 5'11 9'7" 2022 Lone Peak High Point University
11 Camryn Lingenbrink MB 6'1 10'1 2021 Graduated
12 Myali Laufiso. UNCOMMITTED L/DS 5'8 9'6 2023Copperhills
15 Kaieva Johnson. UTAH L 5'8" 2023 Riverton
18 Sophia Wendt S 5'10" 9'3 2023 Farmington
19 Lucy Perez OH 5'10 9'9 2023 Mountain View
21 Rylee Parkinson OH/RS 5"11 10' 2023 Mountain Ridge
33 Elle McCandless MB
The other 1s team.
3 Kambree Rodriguez Lib 5'9" 9' 6" 2023 Syracuse
UTAH STATE
13 Mia Lee MB/OPP 6' 0 10' 7 1/2" 2023 Mountain View
BYU
28 Madison Standifird OH/L 5' 9" 9' 10" 2023 Sky Ridge
1 Silina Damuni Setter 5' 9" 9' 6" 2023 Timpview
BYU
16 Ireland McNees Pin Hitter 5' 9" 10' 2023 Mountain Ridge
Lafayette College
12 Levani Key-Powell OH 5' 9" 10” 2024 Bingham
11 Kalia Kohler Setter/DS 5' 7" 9' 1" 2023 Lone Peak
21 Taliah Lee OH 6' 0 9' 11" 2023 Timpview
9 Olivia Ruy OH/OPP 6' 2 10' 2023 Woods Cross
Arkansas University
10 Taylor Harvey MB/OPP 6' 2.5 10' 5" 2025 Bountiful
8 Jordyn Harvey OH 6' 1" 10' 5" 2023 Bountiful
Pending Acceptance
22 Brielle Miller DS/L
BYU
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vvv
Sophomore
Posts: 138
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Post by vvv on Jul 18, 2022 10:02:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the deets on the V 17s teams. I did hear that the teams were indeed split up as 1s and 2s. The 1s are listed on the bottom, but heard they knew they were the 1s team all along. The final results show it as well. Not sure what the coaches actually told the girls and parents. I do agree that some players on the 2s team could very well run with the 1s team. But, for the most part and from watching games here and there, it seems to have been a 1s and 2s but both in elite realm to make it to Nationals- pretty awesome.
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Post by mintonetteman on Jul 19, 2022 16:05:26 GMT -5
Hey, anyone going to the BYU volleyball camp this week. I believe this is the week all the recruits come in. I usually get interesting feedback from my club moms on recruits and players as they typically play with each other. Not saying it is great info, but it is interesting. Psst....don't tell Marnvb2 but I heard another Bower girl committed to BYU ... she may have to find a really good therapist.
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 19, 2022 16:13:44 GMT -5
Hey, anyone going to the BYU volleyball camp this week. I believe this is the week all the recruits come in. I usually get interesting feedback from my club moms on recruits and players as they typically play with each other. Not saying it is great info, but it is interesting. Psst....don't tell Marnvb2 but I heard another Bower girl committed to BYU ... she may have to find a really good therapist. Are you talking about Alex Bower? Yeah, she committed a week ago or so. I'll be interested to hear what you learn from the camps. |
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Deleted
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BYU 2022
Jul 19, 2022 18:20:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2022 18:20:52 GMT -5
Hey, anyone going to the BYU volleyball camp this week. I believe this is the week all the recruits come in. I usually get interesting feedback from my club moms on recruits and players as they typically play with each other. Not saying it is great info, but it is interesting. Psst....don't tell Marnvb2 but I heard another Bower girl committed to BYU ... she may have to find a really good therapist. There were recruits here last week for sure. |
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