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Post by donut on Feb 11, 2021 19:35:41 GMT -5
How is it empty? They are still expected to do it, whether it's subjective or not. And that's the point: we elect them to do what they *we* think is the right thing. Because it doesn't mean anything! If one person thinks abortion is wrong, and another thinks abortion is within the rights of a woman to control her own body, telling them to do the right thing leads to polarized outcomes depending on who you tell it to! We elect them to do what we think is the right thing (fixed it for you). I'm not going to elect Ted Cruz because I think he is strong in his convictions about what is "right." I'm going to vote for Ted Cruz because I agree that the Affordable Care Act is socialist and Christian values should govern our country. If he doesn't do what I want? I don't think he is doing the right thing and I won't vote for him for reelection.
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Post by cindra on Feb 11, 2021 19:49:11 GMT -5
Wait, so what is the difference between "the will of the voter" and "what the voter thinks is the right thing"?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 19:57:22 GMT -5
dunc, you keep pointing at what we CURRENTLY do rather than what the PURPOSE of the Senate was. I don't disagree that the Senate is totally f***ed up. What I disagree about is WHY it was created.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 19:59:16 GMT -5
Wait, so what is the difference between "the will of the voter" and "what the voter thinks is the right thing"? To whom is this question addressed? Not me, I assume, since I don't think the Senate should do either, if they disagree with the voter.
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Post by donut on Feb 11, 2021 20:05:53 GMT -5
dunc, you keep pointing at what we CURRENTLY do rather than what the PURPOSE of the Senate was. I don't disagree that the Senate is totally f***ed up. What I disagree about is WHY it was created. Please state concisely what the PURPOSE of the Senate was. Try writing it as a thesis statement. "The purpose of the Senate was..."
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Post by donut on Feb 11, 2021 20:06:32 GMT -5
If you say "to do the right thing" I'm going to scream.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 20:08:39 GMT -5
dunc, you keep pointing at what we CURRENTLY do rather than what the PURPOSE of the Senate was. I don't disagree that the Senate is totally f***ed up. What I disagree about is WHY it was created. Please state concisely what the PURPOSE of the Senate was. Try writing it as a thesis statement. "The purpose of the Senate was..." The purpose of the Senate was to check the House of Representatives. No different than the House of Lords and the House of Commons. But here's the mistake you are making: you think I am a moron. I am not.
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Post by mikegarrison on Feb 11, 2021 20:11:20 GMT -5
All this talk reminds me of one of the great movies of all time, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 20:13:51 GMT -5
All this talk reminds me of one of the great movies of all time, IMO. It was very good. Probably his best. But I found it interesting that Danny Aiello pretty much re-wrote his part. Spike tends to sterotype.
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Post by mikegarrison on Feb 11, 2021 20:15:02 GMT -5
All this talk reminds me of one of the great movies of all time, IMO. It was very good. Probably his best. But I found it interesting that Danny Aiello pretty much re-wrote his part. Spike tends to sterotype. Stereotypes are often the subject that he's trying to show.
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Post by cindra on Feb 11, 2021 20:16:17 GMT -5
Wait, so what is the difference between "the will of the voter" and "what the voter thinks is the right thing"? To whom is this question addressed? Not me, I assume, since I don't think the Senate should do either, if they disagree with the voter. How is the voter supposed to decide which senator to vote for besides asking "does what this senator thinks is right line up with what I think is right?" You're putting far too big of a gap between what the voters think is right and what the senator thinks is right. They're not some enlightened class of wise men or whatever. They're people with values, and voters select them because of those values. "What the senator thinks is right" is the will of the voters who elected them, otherwise they wouldn't have elected them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 20:19:55 GMT -5
It was very good. Probably his best. But I found it interesting that Danny Aiello pretty much re-wrote his part. Spike tends to sterotype. Stereotypes are often the subject that he's trying to show. Sure. But he tends to not have a CLUE about white stereotypes. In this movie, about Sal.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 20:24:48 GMT -5
To whom is this question addressed? Not me, I assume, since I don't think the Senate should do either, if they disagree with the voter. How is the voter supposed to decide which senator to vote for besides asking "does what this senator thinks is right line up with what I think is right?" You're putting far too big of a gap between what the voters think is right and what the senator thinks is right. They're not some enlightened class of wise men or whatever. They're people with values, and voters select them because of those values. "What the senator thinks is right" is the will of the voters who elected them, otherwise they wouldn't have elected them. Again, I am talking about the PURPOSE of the Senate, not what we have ended up with. And you give way too much credit to the voters as to why Senators are elected. Anyhow, in the best of all possible worlds, we would be electing people to do the job WE are not qualified or do not have the time to do. We DO want wise men/women in the Senate, making the best possible decisions they can. What we should not want is people in there who are just making decisions based on opinion polls. I point again to the current moment. The Senators should be weighing the evidence and voting accordingly. They should NOT be following the dictates of their party or opinion polls. Give me Mitt Romney any day over Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz. The latter duo were NOT what the founding fathers had in mind when creating the Senate.
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Post by donut on Feb 11, 2021 20:28:39 GMT -5
Please state concisely what the PURPOSE of the Senate was. Try writing it as a thesis statement. "The purpose of the Senate was..." The purpose of the Senate was to check the House of Representatives. No different than the House of Lords and the House of Commons. But here's the mistake you are making: you think I am a moron. I am not. Not the purpose. A consideration? Sure. But history disagrees with you and the way the Senate functions disagrees with you. Even if you were right about that being the overriding purpose, the Seventeenth Amendment throws that out the door (at least from an independence standpoint), so to argue that the job of a current Senator is to "do the right thing" is especially off base. I'd suggest you go back and read your posts in "The filibuster" thread because you've been one hell of a moving target, hence the confusion. "Checking the House of Representatives" is in no way "doing the right thing." "Checking the House of Representatives" is certainly more accurate than "doing the right thing," but it's still not correct. I don't think you're a moron. I think you talk vaguely and from 10,000 feet in the air sometimes. That's all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 20:31:13 GMT -5
That is entirely possible. I frequently find that I am far less cogent than I think I am.
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