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Post by volleyguy on Jul 25, 2023 11:18:03 GMT -5
However they admitted it happened. So the complaint isn't BS. How the athlete was handled after that I believe is the issue. At the end of the day, if you have a coach who was disciplined for behavior that could be construed as hazing, keeping him AND giving him a contract extension seems like a huge miss on Northwestern's part. I live in this area. this was the first story on the news last night and this morning. They admitted that there was a physical punishment for an athlete violating COVID protocol. Does Northwestern Athletics have a policy of no physical punishments? I know schools that do. If they did, I feel like we would've heard about it by now. So they haven't admitted to any wrongdoing in the volleyball case. My argument isn't that the timeline of what happened on that one day is BS, just that it constitutes hazing. Or that a player who wasn't good enough to get any playing time in the 2 years before this incident, only was benched for the next two years because of this. Also, "could be construed as" is doing a LOT of heavy lifting in your argument. That can't be the standard. Every athlete who doesn't get playing time could CONSTRUE those lineup decisions as hazing. Line-up decisions aren't hazing. They could be about retaliation, however. I think one of the articles mentioned that the athlete was asked/required by Davis to make a written apology to one of the trainers. The substance of that request could indicate what the issue for Davis was, and what subsequent decisions may have followed. |
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 25, 2023 11:19:43 GMT -5
Moreover, two players said that the head coach had to sign a document indicating his involvement in the hazing.
Seems like an admission to me. I feel bad because he has a family, but I am shocked if this is true of someone of caliber and I always respected him, but if this is true I feel bad for the player that was hurt and those captains are still part of it because if they felt their instruction was wrong they would have said no unless they felt bullied which they can argue (by the coaching staff) People always act shocked when their neighbor is arrested for being a serial killer. And then a few days later, they're on the news telling everyone about all the creepy things he/she used to do. It's just part of the coping mechanism for most people. |
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Post by robtearle on Jul 25, 2023 11:24:03 GMT -5
1) What makes a "school newspaper" biased? If they were biased, why would the bias be against the school, and not towards the school? (Particularly at Northwestern, where the school of journalism is HIGHLY regarded.) 2) Inside NU is not a school newspaper; it is a site associated with "SB Nation", which is described as a "sports blogging network" on Wikipedia, and is owned by Vox Media. Rarely will a school newspaper be on the side of the school when scandal breaks, these kids are looking for their clicks and moment to be recognized. Absolutely no surprise that context is missing and the drills are embellished for those who are unfamiliar. Even with this not being a school newspaper, it doesn't detract from the fact that the kid who is editor in chief is a Sophomore and the managing editor is also a Sophomore. These are young kids that are looking to make a name and a career for themselves. Do we really think they care if they shine the school in a bad light when it is one of the hottest stories going right now with basically no other major sports going on? What is it that they published that you know to be incorrect, and how do you know that? What is it that they published that you think is incorrect, and why specifically do you think that? I'm not asking for opinion; you've posted plenty of that. I'm asking for specifics as to why you think their reporting of statements made during interviews with former players are wrong, and/or why you think their characterization and statements regarding what the lawsuit says are incorrect. Because a LARGE portion of their article is made of paragraphs that read "... the player said... " and " the lawsuit says...". |
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 25, 2023 11:24:15 GMT -5
I feel bad because he has a family, but I am shocked if this is true of someone of caliber and I always respected him, but if this is true I feel bad for the player that was hurt and those captains are still part of it because if they felt their instruction was wrong they would have said no unless they felt bullied which they can argue (by the coaching staff) People always act shocked when their neighbor is arrested for being a serial killer. And then a few days later, they're on the news telling everyone about all the creepy things he/she used to do. It's just part of the coping mechanism for most people. Being a serial killer and signing an admission of technical "hazing" brought forward by a kid that obviously broke rules that were beyond being in a crowded area and felt entitled enough to report him because she was angry and likely embarrassed that she got caught and was also out of shape, are not the same things IMO. |
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 25, 2023 11:30:39 GMT -5
People always act shocked when their neighbor is arrested for being a serial killer. And then a few days later, they're on the news telling everyone about all the creepy things he/she used to do. It's just part of the coping mechanism for most people. Being a serial killer and signing an admission of technical "hazing" brought forward by a kid that obviously broke rules that were beyond being in a crowded area and felt entitled enough to report him because she was angry and likely embarrassed that she got caught and was also out of shape, are not the same things IMO. It wasn't an equivalence. It's an analogy of how people try to square their beliefs and pre-dispositions with facts and reality, something that you are obviously struggling with (again, to be clear, I am not saying you are struggling with being a serial killer. You are struggling to reconcile your predispositioned beliefs with contrary suggestions). Your aggressive conclusions aren't supported by the publicly available information. I don't know what drives that, but there is clearly a lot of room for a lot of uncertainty in this entire situation. |
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 25, 2023 11:35:23 GMT -5
Rarely will a school newspaper be on the side of the school when scandal breaks, these kids are looking for their clicks and moment to be recognized. Absolutely no surprise that context is missing and the drills are embellished for those who are unfamiliar. Even with this not being a school newspaper, it doesn't detract from the fact that the kid who is editor in chief is a Sophomore and the managing editor is also a Sophomore. These are young kids that are looking to make a name and a career for themselves. Do we really think they care if they shine the school in a bad light when it is one of the hottest stories going right now with basically no other major sports going on? What is it that they published that you know to be incorrect, and how do you know that? What is it that they published that you think is incorrect, and why specifically do you think that? I'm not asking for opinion; you've posted plenty of that. I'm asking for specifics as to why you think their reporting of statements made during interviews with former players are wrong, and/or why you think their characterization and statements regarding what the lawsuit says are incorrect. Because a LARGE portion of their article is made of paragraphs that read "... the player said... " and " the lawsuit says...". Not so much as incorrect, but lacking context and exaggerating the parts that sound bad. All of these girls have done these drills before, I can almost assure that as they have all played a high level before coming to NU and have done those extremely common drills at least once in their career. Players and Lawyers can say whatever they want, we need to remember these are children and most of the time they are immature and don't think before they speak with emotion. Further more, anyone who has coached long enough or been a director of a club knows 100% that what happens in practice and what angry kids go home and tell their parents can be two completely different thing. I would also be willing to bet there is backlog of practice film and wouldn't be surprised if that shows up somewhere. Here we have younger kids telling what seem to be even younger kids writing a story that they know is gonna spread like wildfire where they highlight exaggerated negatives that are also lacking context. -what were the team rules she broke, was it her going to the cafeteria during busy times, or was she out at a party and/or possibly drinking during dry season? -was she cleared to practice before she was made to run suicides (an extremely common drill even within drills), and if she was cleared had she ever gotten sick or failed conditioning tests prior? I have watched plenty of kids vomit from early season conditions or plyo's and they have no one to blame but themselves for not being prepared or in peak shape. -where was the blood from, "bleeding all over the floor" could literally be as simple as ripping a floor burn off your hip bone, again something we have all done before. I am positive if we had more context to the accusations there wouldn't be multiple pages of conversation, but we can also use pretty simple common sense to know we don't have the full story and anyone who has coached long enough knows this stinks of entitlement and/or a scorned athlete. Kids want to stick up for their friends and lawyers want to win cases and get paid out - doesn't really paint the entire picture nor would I trust a 19/20 year old to do so. |
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Post by eazy on Jul 25, 2023 11:35:51 GMT -5
Being a serial killer and signing an admission of technical "hazing" brought forward by a kid that obviously broke rules that were beyond being in a crowded area and felt entitled enough to report him because she was angry and likely embarrassed that she got caught and was also out of shape, are not the same things IMO. It wasn't an equivalence. It's an analogy of how people try to square their beliefs and pre-dispositions with facts and reality, something that you are obviously struggling with (again, to be clear, I am not saying you are struggling with being a serial killer. You are struggling to reconcile your predispositioned beliefs with contrary suggestions). Your aggressive conclusions aren't supported by the publicly available information. I don't know what drives that, but there is clearly a lot of room for a lot of uncertainty in this entire situation. One of the major issues with VT is roughly 25% of the posters have real, factual information that is not publicly available, 25% of the posters falsely claim to have that same type of information, and 50% just make up hypotheticals because they are bored and sometimes get confused with someone who has that same type of information. |
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Post by robtearle on Jul 25, 2023 11:38:47 GMT -5
What is it that they published that you know to be incorrect, and how do you know that? What is it that they published that you think is incorrect, and why specifically do you think that? I'm not asking for opinion; you've posted plenty of that. I'm asking for specifics as to why you think their reporting of statements made during interviews with former players are wrong, and/or why you think their characterization and statements regarding what the lawsuit says are incorrect. Because a LARGE portion of their article is made of paragraphs that read "... the player said... " and " the lawsuit says...". Not so much as incorrect, but lacking context and exaggerating the parts that sound bad. All of these girls have done these drills before, I can almost assure that as they have all played a high level before coming to NU and have done those extremely common drills at least once in their career. Players and Lawyers can say whatever they want, we need to remember these are children and most of the time they are immature and don't think before they speak with emotion. Further more, anyone who has coached long enough or been a director of a club knows 100% that what happens in practice and what angry kids go home and tell their parents can be two completely different thing. I would also be willing to bet there is backlog of practice film and wouldn't be surprised if that shows up somewhere. Here we have younger kids telling what seem to be even younger kids writing a story that they know is gonna spread like wildfire where they highlight exaggerated negatives that are also lacking context. -what were the team rules she broke, was it her going to the cafeteria during busy times, or was she out at a party and/or possibly drinking during dry season? -was she cleared to practice before she was made to run suicides (an extremely common drill even within drills), and if she was cleared had she ever gotten sick or failed conditioning tests prior? I have watched plenty of kids vomit from early season conditions or plyo's and they have no one to blame but themselves for not being prepared or in peak shape. -where was the blood from, "bleeding all over the floor" could literally be as simple as ripping a floor burn off your hip bone, again something we have all done before. I am positive if we had more context to the accusations there wouldn't be multiple pages of conversation, but we can also use pretty simple common sense to know we don't have the full story and anyone who has coached long enough knows this stinks of entitlement and/or a scorned athlete. Kids want to stick up for their friends and lawyers want to win cases and get paid out - doesn't really paint the entire picture nor would I trust a 19/20 year old to do so. So, they're young, and they wrote something you didn't like. (The players were NOT "children".) This wasn't the depositions. More answers will come when depositions are held. These two reporters managed to get the interviews others did not, and *reported* what their interviews yielded. |
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Post by badgerbreath on Jul 25, 2023 11:46:47 GMT -5
Why would NW make Davis sign an affidavit or document saying he participated in the hazing, and then keep Davis around, even extending him? What a strange decision by the admin if true. I mean, it’s not like NW would have trouble finding a good replacement - the university academics and networks recruit by themselves. They have a new facility! Was there some sort of quid pro quo?
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 25, 2023 11:47:50 GMT -5
Not so much as incorrect, but lacking context and exaggerating the parts that sound bad. All of these girls have done these drills before, I can almost assure that as they have all played a high level before coming to NU and have done those extremely common drills at least once in their career. Players and Lawyers can say whatever they want, we need to remember these are children and most of the time they are immature and don't think before they speak with emotion. Further more, anyone who has coached long enough or been a director of a club knows 100% that what happens in practice and what angry kids go home and tell their parents can be two completely different thing. I would also be willing to bet there is backlog of practice film and wouldn't be surprised if that shows up somewhere. Here we have younger kids telling what seem to be even younger kids writing a story that they know is gonna spread like wildfire where they highlight exaggerated negatives that are also lacking context. -what were the team rules she broke, was it her going to the cafeteria during busy times, or was she out at a party and/or possibly drinking during dry season? -was she cleared to practice before she was made to run suicides (an extremely common drill even within drills), and if she was cleared had she ever gotten sick or failed conditioning tests prior? I have watched plenty of kids vomit from early season conditions or plyo's and they have no one to blame but themselves for not being prepared or in peak shape. -where was the blood from, "bleeding all over the floor" could literally be as simple as ripping a floor burn off your hip bone, again something we have all done before. I am positive if we had more context to the accusations there wouldn't be multiple pages of conversation, but we can also use pretty simple common sense to know we don't have the full story and anyone who has coached long enough knows this stinks of entitlement and/or a scorned athlete. Kids want to stick up for their friends and lawyers want to win cases and get paid out - doesn't really paint the entire picture nor would I trust a 19/20 year old to do so. So, they're young, and they wrote something you didn't like. (The players were NOT "children".) This wasn't the depositions. More answers will come when depositions are held. These two reporters managed to get the interviews others did not, and *reported* what their interviews yielded. Anyone under the age of 25 is a child, their brain is not fully developed and they likely have no real world experience. The reporters can not even have a beer, you think they are capable of disseminating what seems exaggerated or embellished when they have little to no idea what goes on day to day in a practice? The story sounds real good and they know it will get clicks, how many other players did they reach out for, did they talk to any current or former coaches, did they try to get a statement from the athletic department? Most of us have been around the game for a very long time, if you don't read this article and think to yourself something doesn't seem right, or immediately realize context is missing then you got to take your blinders off. And it is not something that I don't like, I think it is something that lacks great amount of context and seems incredible damning for an actual adult that does not have a history of issues and was beloved by his players at Loyola while finding huge success. |
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 25, 2023 11:49:05 GMT -5
Why would NW make Davis sign an affidavit or document saying he participated in the hazing, and then keep Davis around, even extending him? What a strange decision by the admin if true. I mean, it’s not like NW would have trouble finding a good replacement - the university academics and networks recruit by themselves. They have a new facility! Was there some sort of quid pro quo? Exactly, it just doesn't add up. There is a ton of context missing and gives credence to hawks theory (or known fact) that she was out partying/drinking during dry season and put the entire program at risk. |
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Post by SayonaraTachikara on Jul 25, 2023 11:57:53 GMT -5
Why would NW make Davis sign an affidavit or document saying he participated in the hazing, and then keep Davis around, even extending him? What a strange decision by the admin if true. I mean, it’s not like NW would have trouble finding a good replacement - the university academics and networks recruit by themselves. They have a new facility! Was there some sort of quid pro quo? Exactly, it just doesn't add up. There is a ton of context missing and gives credence to hawks theory (or known fact) that she was out partying/drinking during dry season and put the entire program at risk. I almost wonder if this situation and “punishment” is tied to a mandatory vaccination policy that was not followed properly during that time. If memory serves me, did NW not lose an AC or DOVO shortly after Davis’s disappearance? This is all speculation, but if a player was “punished/ hazed” for lack of adherence to a mandatory vaccination policy she could have very easily pointed a finger saying, well so and so did not get vaxxed either” While these policies certainly did not age well looking back if it was tied to something like that it could be a huge mess for NU. |
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 25, 2023 12:05:12 GMT -5
So, they're young, and they wrote something you didn't like. (The players were NOT "children".) This wasn't the depositions. More answers will come when depositions are held. These two reporters managed to get the interviews others did not, and *reported* what their interviews yielded. Anyone under the age of 25 is a child, their brain is not fully developed and they likely have no real world experience. The reporters can not even have a beer, you think they are capable of disseminating what seems exaggerated or embellished when they have little to no idea what goes on day to day in a practice? The story sounds real good and they know it will get clicks, how many other players did they reach out for, did they talk to any current or former coaches, did they try to get a statement from the athletic department? Most of us have been around the game for a very long time, if you don't read this article and think to yourself something doesn't seem right, or immediately realize context is missing then you got to take your blinders off. And it is not something that I don't like, I think it is something that lacks great amount of context and seems incredible damning for an actual adult that does not have a history of issues and was beloved by his players at Loyola while finding huge success. You're making stuff up. A legal adult is 18 years old. And his history at Loyola may be part of the problem here (the halo effect). |
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Post by vbman100 on Jul 25, 2023 12:06:23 GMT -5
According to the lawsuit, Jane Doe contracted COVID-19 in February of that year, despite following the team’s COVID guidelines. Despite this, she says, Northwestern volleyball coach Shane Davis and an assistant coach informed her she would need to undergo a “punishment” for violating the guidelines. 2 different takes here... Then again, making someone run suicides after having COVID is a terrible idea, I sure hope she would not have to run quickly to different areas of the court in practice or a match. That would be a terrible idea. |
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Post by dizzydean on Jul 25, 2023 12:08:10 GMT -5
Why would NW make Davis sign an affidavit or document saying he participated in the hazing, and then keep Davis around, even extending him? What a strange decision by the admin if true. I mean, it’s not like NW would have trouble finding a good replacement - the university academics and networks recruit by themselves. They have a new facility! Was there some sort of quid pro quo? Exactly, it just doesn't add up. There is a ton of context missing and gives credence to hawks theory (or known fact) that she was out partying/drinking during dry season and put the entire program at risk. You're awfully dismissive of anyone younger than 25. The truth is usually in the middle somewhere, but I don't think this is just a ho-hum nothing to see here situation. SOMETHING occurred. It was bad enough for Shane to not be on the bench, or to resurface now. |
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