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Post by werka on May 14, 2021 21:58:34 GMT -5
The opacity of USAV to delete the story before I got to watch it... |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2021 22:00:34 GMT -5
You can't really compare American 18 year olds to most internationals. Their youth scene/organization is so much better than ours. it's pretty rare for 18 year olds on pro/national teams. usually they're still stuck in youth teams. Meh. Overseas, if they're good enough, they move up the ranks. Whether it be a federation sponsored team (like Club Italia) or just in their professional leagues. Europeans/Brazilians (I dont know about the Asian leagues) are getting way better experience earlier than the Americans are. They have the ability to move to the level that their talent is worthy of.
The best Americans are stagnated in the NCAA. They can't move up. They could transfer... but that's still a marginal improvement compared to a professional league.
Ana Cristina and Fedorovtsova (both 17) just moved to a top 3 club in Turkey (Fenerbahce). Meanwhile the top American 17 year olds are playing in some overcrowded convention center in the middle of Ohio. |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 14, 2021 22:31:50 GMT -5
it's pretty rare for 18 year olds on pro/national teams. usually they're still stuck in youth teams. Meh. Overseas, if they're good enough, they move up the ranks. Whether it be a federation sponsored team (like Club Italia) or just in their professional leagues. Europeans/Brazilians (I dont know about the Asian leagues) are getting way better experience earlier than the Americans are. They have the ability to move to the level that their talent is worthy of.
The best Americans are stagnated in the NCAA. They can't move up. They could transfer... but that's still a marginal improvement compared to a professional league.
Ana Cristina and Fedorovtsova (both 17) just moved to a top 3 club in Turkey (Fenerbahce). Meanwhile the top American 17 year olds are playing in some overcrowded convention center in the middle of Ohio. Although it's true that Boskovic, Egonu, and Zhu were playing at a top level with their national teams from a young age (17, 17, and 18 if I'm not mistaken), there are also other "late bloomers":
- Kim (stuck in KVL until 2011, she was 23) - Sloetjes (joined Scherwin in 2014, when she was 24. Joined VB in 2015) - De la Cruz (joined Vitra in 2014, when she was 27)
honestly it's getting hard to come up with more examples because Italian, Turkish, Russian, and Brazilian players all have domestic leagues. And Chinese always have youngsters since Jenny took over in 2013.
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Post by donut on May 14, 2021 22:41:03 GMT -5
DLC was a force with her National Team starting in like 2007. She won Best Scorer at the 2011 World Cup. IIRC, she was playing really well in Japan in like 2008-2009?
And Sloetjes is probably a good example, but Sloetjes also rode the bench behind Flier for a bit too long.
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Post by ironhammer on May 14, 2021 22:54:37 GMT -5
Meh. Overseas, if they're good enough, they move up the ranks. Whether it be a federation sponsored team (like Club Italia) or just in their professional leagues. Europeans/Brazilians (I dont know about the Asian leagues) are getting way better experience earlier than the Americans are. They have the ability to move to the level that their talent is worthy of.
The best Americans are stagnated in the NCAA. They can't move up. They could transfer... but that's still a marginal improvement compared to a professional league.
Ana Cristina and Fedorovtsova (both 17) just moved to a top 3 club in Turkey (Fenerbahce). Meanwhile the top American 17 year olds are playing in some overcrowded convention center in the middle of Ohio. And Chinese always have youngsters since Jenny took over in 2013.
The Chinese sport school system provides a direct pipeline for promising volleyball players to go the pro teams, and even the NT, if they show enough talent. Zhu and most NT players came up through these sport academies. There is no NCAA to go through. There is college sports in China yes, including volleyball, although that is a separate system and few college players would make the cut to the NT. In the past, such sport schools were responsible for many Olympic gold medal glories, including volleyball. However, such schools are becoming more controversial. They organized along a military training style, with boot camp drills and harsh and unyielding discipline. The over-focus on sport training also meant the rest of the children's education were neglected. Meaning those who do not make the cut are left with no knowledge and skills to make it in the "real world". And the growing middle class in China increasingly do not want their children subjected to such rigor with questionable future for graduates who don't make it to the top national teams. Thus sport schools have started declining in China. Those that remained have also started to give their students more regular education to supplement the sport training. |
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on May 14, 2021 22:56:40 GMT -5
DLC was a force with her National Team starting in like 2007. She won Best Scorer at the 2011 World Cup. IIRC, she was playing really well in Japan in like 2008-2009? And Sloetjes is probably a good example, but Sloetjes also rode the bench behind Flier for a bit too long. Yeah, De La Cruz had been around since she was real young. Brayelin Martinez and Melissa Vargas were involved at very young ages for their senior NT's too. De La Cruz was literally at her ceiling in 2014 with Ecz in the example above. She was the best player at the 2014 World Championships, IMO. She has not been at that level ever since after shoulder surgery following that event. |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 14, 2021 23:00:54 GMT -5
And Chinese always have youngsters since Jenny took over in 2013.
The Chinese sport school system provide a direct pipeline for promising volleyball players to go the pro teams, and even the NT, if they show enough talent. There is no NCAA to go through. There is college sports in China yes, including volleyball, although that is a separate system and few college players would make the cut to the NT. Ren Kaiyi made it and plays on a professional team now (Beijing) and was a benchwarmer in the 2019 VNL finals.
If you're asking "who's that?" then that's exactly the point -- the ones that go to professional sports schools are so much better.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 14, 2021 23:03:14 GMT -5
DLC was a force with her National Team starting in like 2007. She won Best Scorer at the 2011 World Cup. IIRC, she was playing really well in Japan in like 2008-2009? And Sloetjes is probably a good example, but Sloetjes also rode the bench behind Flier for a bit too long. Yeah, De La Cruz had been around since she was real young. Brayelin Martinez and Melissa Vargas were involved at very young ages for their senior NT's too. De La Cruz was literally at her ceiling in 2014 with Ecz in the example above. She was the best player at the 2014 World Championships, IMO. She has not been at that level ever since after shoulder surgery following that event. ok, bad example, I guess that shows how much I know about volleyball lol |
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Post by socalplayer on May 15, 2021 0:21:01 GMT -5
she'll have to be a lefty then  This got me thinking, what happened to the Karch that invited Hayley Hodson to the Senior NT gym when she was a high schooler (she was literally on the same roster as MBH) Still can’t get over it. She could have been the next Larson. Solid all around skills, pro mentality...what a loss for us fans and for her. |
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Post by jengal on May 15, 2021 0:22:46 GMT -5
This got me thinking, what happened to the Karch that invited Hayley Hodson to the Senior NT gym when she was a high schooler (she was literally on the same roster as MBH) Still can’t get over it. She could have been the next Larson. Solid all around skills, pro mentality...what a loss for us fans and for her. The Hodson story is sad on so many levels. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2021 0:36:21 GMT -5
carlini must really hate her middles and thats why she doesn't set them. she loves a good shove  (if you know, you know) well I know at least rainbowbadger will
Hah! Classic dozer Carlini.
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Post by dokterrudi on May 15, 2021 2:04:31 GMT -5
And Chinese always have youngsters since Jenny took over in 2013.
The Chinese sport school system provide a direct pipeline for promising volleyball players to go the pro teams, and even the NT, if they show enough talent. Zhu and most NT players came up through these sport academies. There is no NCAA to go through. There is college sports in China yes, including volleyball, although that is a separate system and few college players would make the cut to the NT. In the past, such sport schools were responsible for many Olympic gold medal glories, including volleyball. However, such schools are becoming more controversial. They organized along a military training style, with boot camp drills and harsh and unyielding discipline. The over-focus on sport training also meant the rest of the children's education were neglected. Meaning those who do not make the cut are left with no knowledge and skills to make it in the "real world". And the growing middle class in China increasingly do not want their children subjected to such rigor with questionable future for graduates who don't make it to the top national teams. Thus sport schools have started declining in China. Those that remained have also started to give them more regular education to supplement the sport training. I hope they are truly improving. It's criminal how athletes have been tossed after they dedicated there lives to the state. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on May 15, 2021 5:16:43 GMT -5
carlini must really hate her middles and thats why she doesn't set them. she loves a good shove (if you know, you know) well I know at least rainbowbadger will This. This is amazing. OMG. |
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Post by ironhammer on May 15, 2021 7:26:15 GMT -5
carlini must really hate her middles and thats why she doesn't set them. she loves a good shove (if you know, you know) well I know at least rainbowbadger will This. This is amazing. OMG. Don't mess with her, eh?  |
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Post by ironhammer on May 15, 2021 7:30:15 GMT -5
The Chinese sport school system provide a direct pipeline for promising volleyball players to go the pro teams, and even the NT, if they show enough talent. There is no NCAA to go through. There is college sports in China yes, including volleyball, although that is a separate system and few college players would make the cut to the NT. Ren Kaiyi made it and plays on a professional team now (Beijing) and was a benchwarmer in the 2019 VNL finals.
If you're asking "who's that?" then that's exactly the point -- the ones that go to professional sports schools are so much better.
Actually I have heard of her. She attended Beihang University (Beijing Aeronautics University) and played for their volleyball team. She also went to play in the Polish league for a time. She might be a special case though, since Beihang is coached by none other than Yang Hao, the ex-NT outside hitter and 2004 Athens gold medalist. Yang has connections to the NT and knew how to coach and raise Ren's game. That likely contributed to her ability to jump to the pro leagues. Cases like Ren do happen, but its not that common, she is still very much the exception rather than the rule. |
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(if you know, you know) well I know at least 
