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Post by mervinswerved on May 17, 2021 11:49:44 GMT -5
Humorless, grumpy stick in the mud. No, I'm saying Rogness is a classic small business tyrant.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 17, 2021 11:52:39 GMT -5
QUESTION... Is this decision completely up to Kay or does she have to follow the guidelines and edicts of the city of Denver?
Just trying to figure out if I should be sharpening my pitchfork like the rest of some of you or if there's another valid side to this story.
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Post by ineedajob on May 17, 2021 11:58:28 GMT -5
QUESTION... Is this decision completely up to Kay or does she have to follow the guidelines and edicts of the city of Denver? Just trying to figure out if I should be sharpening my pitchfork like the rest of some of you or if there's another valid side to this story. I feel like she has had opportunities to defend her decision, but she has not done so in a way that inspires anyone to cut her any slack.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 17, 2021 12:02:19 GMT -5
QUESTION... Is this decision completely up to Kay or does she have to follow the guidelines and edicts of the city of Denver? Just trying to figure out if I should be sharpening my pitchfork like the rest of some of you or if there's another valid side to this story. I feel like she has had opportunities to defend her decision, but she has not done so in a way that inspires anyone to cut her any slack. I don't disagree with you there, just trying to gain some perspective on how much of this in in her control.
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Post by moderndaycoach on May 17, 2021 12:45:29 GMT -5
QUESTION... Is this decision completely up to Kay or does she have to follow the guidelines and edicts of the city of Denver? Just trying to figure out if I should be sharpening my pitchfork like the rest of some of you or if there's another valid side to this story. Obviously most of us are not up to date and Colarado law, but I would be willing to bet easwanson is. She reached out to a state rep and got her involved. She would post here from time to time when that evil devil woman cheryl butler would attack her so hopefully she can log on and fill us in here as well.
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Post by moderndaycoach on May 17, 2021 12:47:43 GMT -5
QUESTION... Is this decision completely up to Kay or does she have to follow the guidelines and edicts of the city of Denver? Just trying to figure out if I should be sharpening my pitchfork like the rest of some of you or if there's another valid side to this story. I feel like she has had opportunities to defend her decision, but she has not done so in a way that inspires anyone to cut her any slack. If she had come out and tried to make some sort of arrangement or find a middle ground for the weekend to buy time and go back to figure out a better solution for the future, I think she would get some grace. The fact she made sure to call her that night and threaten her to not do it again has her teetering on the edge of the chum bucket.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 17, 2021 12:54:55 GMT -5
I feel like she has had opportunities to defend her decision, but she has not done so in a way that inspires anyone to cut her any slack. If she had come out and tried to make some sort of arrangement or find a middle ground for the weekend to buy time and go back to figure out a better solution for the future, I think she would get some grace. The fact she made sure to call her that night and threaten her to not do it again has her teetering on the edge of the chum bucket. So it's not the call that she made, it's just the way she made that call if I'm understanding you correctly.
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Post by eazy on May 17, 2021 12:57:22 GMT -5
If she had come out and tried to make some sort of arrangement or find a middle ground for the weekend to buy time and go back to figure out a better solution for the future, I think she would get some grace. The fact she made sure to call her that night and threaten her to not do it again has her teetering on the edge of the chum bucket. So it's not the call that she made, it's just the way she made that call if I'm understanding you correctly. It's a combination of both. In a dilemma with probably no easy answer, she went with the worst answer. On top of that, she double and triple downed on that answer.
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Post by moderndaycoach on May 17, 2021 13:00:13 GMT -5
If she had come out and tried to make some sort of arrangement or find a middle ground for the weekend to buy time and go back to figure out a better solution for the future, I think she would get some grace. The fact she made sure to call her that night and threaten her to not do it again has her teetering on the edge of the chum bucket. So it's not the call that she made, it's just the way she made that call if I'm understanding you correctly. My very loose understanding is somewhere in the facility agreement there was requirement of full vaccination and/or a clean covid test with a stipulation of no one under 16 allowed in the convention center. (Almost every participant was likely under 16 this past weekend) No one could give an exact answer who was responsible for enforcing it and eventually fell on the TD who is Kay. Kay put her foot down and would not budge on allowing the infant to be brought into the building, they sneak her in day two then get a call threatening her that night to not do it again "or else", next day they show up and are told they would not be granted entry. USAV comes out and says we have nothing to do with this tourney (bullpoop) and have said they encouraged Kay to change the policy. Kay holds her ground and has now lawyered up. Anyone please feel free to correct me or fill in the blanks.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 17, 2021 13:03:37 GMT -5
So it's not the call that she made, it's just the way she made that call if I'm understanding you correctly. It's a combination of both. In a dilemma with probably no easy answer, she went with the worst answer. On top of that, she double and triple downed on that answer. Okay but that's what I'm wondering. Were her hands tied by the City of Denver? What if they say "These are the rules" and she plays the hero and goes against them? Where is Colorado Crossroads next year? Is there a fine line between small business tyrant and small business owner? It's all well and good for us (well some of you) to throw around the POS label but it's not YOUR business on the line. Maybe she could have made a different call and maybe she couldn't. I definitely agree that there may have been better ways to go about it. Especially when it's captured on camera and put on the news.
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Post by n00b on May 17, 2021 13:04:26 GMT -5
So it's not the call that she made, it's just the way she made that call if I'm understanding you correctly. It's a combination of both. In a dilemma with probably no easy answer, she went with the worst answer. On top of that, she double and triple downed on that answer. Presumably, the alternative was breaking their contract with the convention center. Again, I think it was stupid policy (brought about by very tight COVID restrictions). But once it goes into a contract, it isn’t quite as simple as the tournament director changing her mind.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 17, 2021 13:11:22 GMT -5
It's a combination of both. In a dilemma with probably no easy answer, she went with the worst answer. On top of that, she double and triple downed on that answer. Again, I think it was stupid policy (brought about by very tight COVID restrictions). Hey babies are dangerous little bastards! Potential super spreaders who don't care who they get. They are diabolical in their cuteness and ability to get people to pick them up and hold them. Ban the babies!
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Post by eazy on May 17, 2021 13:13:43 GMT -5
It's a combination of both. In a dilemma with probably no easy answer, she went with the worst answer. On top of that, she double and triple downed on that answer. Okay but that's what I'm wondering. Were her hands tied by the City of Denver? What if they say "These are the rules" and she plays the hero and goes against them? Where is Colorado Crossroads next year? Is there a fine line between small business tyrant and small business owner? It's all well and good for us (well some of you) to throw around the POS label but it's not YOUR business on the line. Maybe she could have made a different call and maybe she couldn't. I definitely agree that there may have been better ways to go about it. Especially when it's captured on camera and put on the news. If her hands were tied by the city of Denver, then the intelligent thing would be to tell everyone that and shift the blame. The fact that she didn't do that is what leads people to believe it was her call to make. If her hands were tied by anyone, she did a terrible job on the PR for the whole situation by not expressing that to the national media yet.
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Post by justahick on May 17, 2021 13:13:48 GMT -5
So it's not the call that she made, it's just the way she made that call if I'm understanding you correctly. My very loose understanding is somewhere in the facility agreement there was requirement of full vaccination and/or a clean covid test with a stipulation of no one under 16 allowed in the convention center. (Almost every participant was likely under 16 this past weekend) No one could give an exact answer who was responsible for enforcing it and eventually fell on the TD who is Kay. Kay put her foot down and would not budge on allowing the infant to be brought into the building, they sneak her in day two then get a call threatening her that night to not do it again "or else", next day they show up and are told they would not be granted entry. USAV comes out and says we have nothing to do with this tourney (bullpoop) and have said they encouraged Kay to change the policy. Kay holds her ground and has now lawyered up. Anyone please feel free to correct me or fill in the blanks. 95% correct - however USAV has nothing to do with who is admitted, what contract the TD makes with the venue, hotel arrangement, parking, etc. Also, I believe the requirement was on the convention center floor, not the lobby - though I could be wrong here. USAV sets the playing rules, the guidelines for playing format, provides insurance. As long as the TD is following the tournament manual, and USAV rules, there is literally nothing USAV can do. I suppose they could threaten to pull the sanction and end the event, but a) they USAV would lose because the TD violated none of the conditions of the agreement with USAV, and b) it would punish everyone else at the event. Beyond that, the corporation that runs the tournament is obligated to follow federal, state and local laws. Did they? IMO they did, others will disagree. IMO, the breastfeeding is a red herring. Clearly it is illegal to deny a mother the right to breastfeed in Colorado, however, are there any other places where a baby is not allowed - perhaps with better reason - movie theater, play, construction site, casino?
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Post by Phaedrus on May 17, 2021 13:19:19 GMT -5
How many humans rights, or ethical issues, is Kay about to get sued for? USAV really dropped the ball on this saying they don't have association with this tourney and are encouraging Kay to reverse the decision. If she holds her ground she truly is a giant POS and deserves everything that comes to her. If people wanted too make a stand they should stop attending this tourney, and if USAV wanted to save face they should threaten to pull the umbrella insurance and no longer market it as one of their national qualifiers. I want to say I can't believe this is a thing in 2021, but I am not surprised by the decisions so many broken brained people are making currently. The part that is frustrating to me is that she had every chance to make it go away easily. The whole thing started when the coach was denied entry on Saturday, she could have made it all go away anytime between then and Sunday, but no.
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