moody
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Post by moody on Jun 18, 2021 22:45:25 GMT -5
President Hillary Clinton would have been marginally better (and that's an important margin!) but the overall result would have been very similar. Maybe 500k dead instead of 600k+, which isn't nothing. you make things up to be outraged by.
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moody
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Post by moody on Jun 18, 2021 22:46:36 GMT -5
You've made it clear you didn't like Canada, but Canada has the United States beat in most quality of life indicators, suggesting that if the United States is trying to provide the best quality of life for its citizens, Canada would be a good example to follow. Also not sure what tax rates have to do with COVID responses. The money to pay those $2000 dollar pay outs come from the heavily taxed citizens of Canada. The money the US uses to bail out big corporations comes from the heavily taxed middle class. Or what is left of the middle class.
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moody
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Post by moody on Jun 18, 2021 22:48:52 GMT -5
Looking at tax rates alone isn't really a valid comparison. You'd also have to look at the benefits that those taxes provide, vs. what others have to pay for out-of-pocket. Paying $500 extra in taxes while saving $5000 in out-of-pocket medical expenses isn't a bad tradeoff. (just throwing out an example; I don't know how out-of-pocket medical expenses compare between the various countries) I don't consider the 18 month wait for an MRI or a heart echo worth the trade off but I only lived there you guys obviously know more. If health care in Canada is substandard to the United States why is their life expectancy higher and their infant mortality rate lower?
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Jun 18, 2021 22:54:27 GMT -5
I don't consider the 18 month wait for an MRI or a heart echo worth the trade off but I only lived there you guys obviously know more. A MRI that is in no way urgent for medical purposes, correct? Depends... If you're in the hospital already and it's life or death then you will get it fairly quickly. When it comes to cancer care Canada's rate of care is on par with the US. If you have a suspected brain tumor and need an MRI to verify then that could take months (as we've seen happen with people we've known) My wife had her hip replaced when she was at the point of being able to complete her 8hr shift at the hospital and then being in so much pain that she could do nothing in the evening. In Canada it would have been replacement surgery a year after she had reached that point. I tore my achilles playing basketball and got surgery within a month of diagnosis (I could have gotten it earlier if my schedule permitted) My cousin tore her achilles and was dissuaded from having surgery by her doctor. This would've meant walking with a permanent limp. Unfortunately she developed a blood clot which travelled up her leg and lodged in her heart or lungs (can't remember which). Sadly that could've been prevented (maybe?) if she had been directed to take low dose asprin. My friend's kid had a growth plate in his arm that prematurely closed. Doctors said there was absolutely nothing that could be done. They researched and found in doctor in Minneapolis who was doing surgery and treatment to fix this problem. They went to him (stayed with us as they drove back and forth) and their kid's arm grew normally. If they had listened to doctors there the kid's arm would've had a permanent 90 degree bend that would not straighten out. An allergy test to see what fruits you may be seriously allergic to can take a year to get (happened to my friend) Doctor's advice to him was "Don't eat any fruits" It's not a great system. Are there plusses to the system? Yes, it is great to break an arm and know you can walk into a hospital and walk out hours later with a cast. But there are negatives too. You have a Government run system that looks to funnel anyone close to dying on the path of no return instead of treating for recovery.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Jun 18, 2021 23:03:03 GMT -5
I don't consider the 18 month wait for an MRI or a heart echo worth the trade off but I only lived there you guys obviously know more. If health care in Canada is substandard to the United States why is their life expectancy higher and their infant mortality rate lower? That's a great question. I honestly don't know so I'm not going to speculate. When I googled that question about life expectancy, an old study from 2004 pointed to Smoking, Hypertension, and Obesity. Back in the 70's the Government had a huge ad campaign that talked about the average 30 year old Canadian not being as healthy as the average 70 Swede. From that a huge initiative called Participaction started. There are cringe worthy ads on YouTube.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Jun 18, 2021 23:10:10 GMT -5
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moody
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Post by moody on Jun 18, 2021 23:29:03 GMT -5
If health care in Canada is substandard to the United States why is their life expectancy higher and their infant mortality rate lower? That's a great question. I honestly don't know so I'm not going to speculate. When I googled that question about life expectancy, an old study from 2004 pointed to Smoking, Hypertension, and Obesity. Back in the 70's the Government had a huge ad campaign that talked about the average 30 year old Canadian not being as healthy as the average 70 Swede. From that a huge initiative called Participaction started. There are cringe worthy ads on YouTube. So Canadians don't smoke or drink etc? What about the child mortality rate?
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moody
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Post by moody on Jun 18, 2021 23:31:23 GMT -5
A MRI that is in no way urgent for medical purposes, correct? Depends... If you're in the hospital already and it's life or death then you will get it fairly quickly. When it comes to cancer care Canada's rate of care is on par with the US. If you have a suspected brain tumor and need an MRI to verify then that could take months (as we've seen happen with people we've known) My wife had her hip replaced when she was at the point of being able to complete her 8hr shift at the hospital and then being in so much pain that she could do nothing in the evening. In Canada it would have been replacement surgery a year after she had reached that point. I tore my achilles playing basketball and got surgery within a month of diagnosis (I could have gotten it earlier if my schedule permitted) My cousin tore her achilles and was dissuaded from having surgery by her doctor. This would've meant walking with a permanent limp. Unfortunately she developed a blood clot which travelled up her leg and lodged in her heart or lungs (can't remember which). Sadly that could've been prevented (maybe?) if she had been directed to take low dose asprin. My friend's kid had a growth plate in his arm that prematurely closed. Doctors said there was absolutely nothing that could be done. They researched and found in doctor in Minneapolis who was doing surgery and treatment to fix this problem. They went to him (stayed with us as they drove back and forth) and their kid's arm grew normally. If they had listened to doctors there the kid's arm would've had a permanent 90 degree bend that would not straighten out. An allergy test to see what fruits you may be seriously allergic to can take a year to get (happened to my friend) Doctor's advice to him was "Don't eat any fruits" It's not a great system. Are there plusses to the system? Yes, it is great to break an arm and know you can walk into a hospital and walk out hours later with a cast. But there are negatives too. You have a Government run system that looks to funnel anyone close to dying on the path of no return instead of treating for recovery. Data, statistics and reality do NOT support your post.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Jun 19, 2021 8:06:24 GMT -5
That's a great question. I honestly don't know so I'm not going to speculate. When I googled that question about life expectancy, an old study from 2004 pointed to Smoking, Hypertension, and Obesity. Back in the 70's the Government had a huge ad campaign that talked about the average 30 year old Canadian not being as healthy as the average 70 Swede. From that a huge initiative called Participaction started. There are cringe worthy ads on YouTube. So Canadians don't smoke or drink etc? What about the child mortality rate? Apparently not in the same volume as Americans. At least not in 2004.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Jun 19, 2021 8:07:06 GMT -5
Depends... If you're in the hospital already and it's life or death then you will get it fairly quickly. When it comes to cancer care Canada's rate of care is on par with the US. If you have a suspected brain tumor and need an MRI to verify then that could take months (as we've seen happen with people we've known) My wife had her hip replaced when she was at the point of being able to complete her 8hr shift at the hospital and then being in so much pain that she could do nothing in the evening. In Canada it would have been replacement surgery a year after she had reached that point. I tore my achilles playing basketball and got surgery within a month of diagnosis (I could have gotten it earlier if my schedule permitted) My cousin tore her achilles and was dissuaded from having surgery by her doctor. This would've meant walking with a permanent limp. Unfortunately she developed a blood clot which travelled up her leg and lodged in her heart or lungs (can't remember which). Sadly that could've been prevented (maybe?) if she had been directed to take low dose asprin. My friend's kid had a growth plate in his arm that prematurely closed. Doctors said there was absolutely nothing that could be done. They researched and found in doctor in Minneapolis who was doing surgery and treatment to fix this problem. They went to him (stayed with us as they drove back and forth) and their kid's arm grew normally. If they had listened to doctors there the kid's arm would've had a permanent 90 degree bend that would not straighten out. An allergy test to see what fruits you may be seriously allergic to can take a year to get (happened to my friend) Doctor's advice to him was "Don't eat any fruits" It's not a great system. Are there plusses to the system? Yes, it is great to break an arm and know you can walk into a hospital and walk out hours later with a cast. But there are negatives too. You have a Government run system that looks to funnel anyone close to dying on the path of no return instead of treating for recovery. Data, statistics and reality do NOT support your post. So be it.
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 19, 2021 10:10:04 GMT -5
President Hillary Clinton would have been marginally better (and that's an important margin!) but the overall result would have been very similar. Maybe 500k dead instead of 600k+, which isn't nothing. you make things up to be outraged by. moody is With Her.
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moody
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Posts: 18,679
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Post by moody on Jun 19, 2021 10:20:11 GMT -5
you make things up to be outraged by. moody is With Her. Not sure what that even means. My point is your post is nothing but speculation in which you draw judgement on. Strange.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 12:59:48 GMT -5
It would've been massively different with ANY other president, if not the deaths, the attitude towards it.
Reagan: My fellow Americans, we're being faced with a crisis...it's not one of our making, but it's one we have to overcome just like we have many before. You know I don't believe on big government, but I believe in necessary government because government is for you, the people, and the general good. To that end, I've extended the block grant programs avaible for states to be used on this pandemic. We as Americans have the strength to overcome this with time and grit.
Bush/Clinton: Multilateral approach with immediate efforts at building an international coalition of research, the US leading the world as its greatest power.
Bush II: Would've taken a folksy approach then thrown an assload of money at it but would immediately have deferred to the experts--just as he did with other policy issues.
Obama: Combination of the Bush/Bush II approach but he would've been blocked by the Republican congress just because he's black and Democrat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 17:16:08 GMT -5
Not sure what that even means. My point is your post is nothing but speculation in which you draw judgement on. Strange. Belief influences what "facts" you accept and look for. mervin is no different from all of us. Hillary would have been competent. OTOH, at least 35% of America would have ignored her, so maybe the results would have been the same. But I have no doubt the government response would have been exponentially better.
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 19, 2021 18:13:25 GMT -5
Given the covid response would still have been handled at the state level, what exactly do you think would have been different with HRC in charge? Would she have directed a radically different federal response? How? If she had the identical Congress Trump had in 2020 (impossible to recreate, I know) would they have passed a covid bill last spring? I can't imagine Senate GOP signing on to anything like that.
I already said it would have gone better under her, just marginally better.
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