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Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 4, 2021 12:57:42 GMT -5
Seriously?!?!?? Turkey did not have a starting 7 as good as the Netherlands did last quad. And very specifically they had no peak Sloetjes. Turkey arguably started the quad with a better starting 7. And Turkey definitley had the advantage at multiple positions. setter is better for Turkey, libero better for Turkey, middles Turkey, opposite belongs to the Dutch. But people seem to forget that Sloetjes wasn’t all that until 2015-2016. Here’s how I see it: there was very little difference between the Dutch and Turkey at the start of their quads in terms of skill. The Dutch progressed more. Sigh. One team has pins. The other has Karakurt. Turkey overachieved tremendously to get here, they served well and played awesome block-defense. In the match against Korea, they just had passing woes, weren't able to stop KYK, and their OHs at some point had to revert to mean. Olympic QFs, from the perspective of when Guidetti took over the team, is an incredible achievement. Even qualifying was. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 4, 2021 12:58:33 GMT -5
Seriously?!?!?? Turkey did not have a starting 7 as good as the Netherlands did last quad. And very specifically they had no peak Sloetjes. Turkey arguably started the quad with a better starting 7. And Turkey definitley had the advantage at multiple positions. setter is better for Turkey, libero better for Turkey, middles Turkey, opposite belongs to the Dutch. But people seem to forget that Sloetjes wasn’t all that until 2015-2016. Here’s how I see it: there was very little difference between the Dutch and Turkey at the start of their quads in terms of skill. The Dutch progressed way more. They were literally a tier 2 WGP team when Guidetti took over. Their progression was much more significant Guidetti jumped from Germany to Netherlands precisely because he realized Germany's talent was aging out and Netherlands was going to peak. Holland had a great generation peak in 2016, Gui guided them there. How quickly they fell apart is a testament to Morrison. |
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 13:02:59 GMT -5
Turkey arguably started the quad with a better starting 7. And Turkey definitley had the advantage at multiple positions. setter is better for Turkey, libero better for Turkey, middles Turkey, opposite belongs to the Dutch. But people seem to forget that Sloetjes wasn’t all that until 2015-2016. Here’s how I see it: there was very little difference between the Dutch and Turkey at the start of their quads in terms of skill. The Dutch progressed way more. They were literally a tier 2 WGP team when Guidetti took over. Their progression was much more significant Guidetti jumped from Germany to Netherlands precisely because he realized Germany's talent was aging out and Netherlands was going to peak. Holland had a great generation peak in 2016, Gui guided them there. How quickly they fell apart is a testament to Morrison. I’m gonna reply to both posts here. Yes the Dutch had better attacking pins, but that’s really all they had over this Turkish squad. Baladin never became the player than many thought she would under Guidetti. Is that on him or her, or her club coach? Also, i’m not simply basing this lack of improvement on this Korean loss, although it does amplify my feelings towards Guidetti and this Turkish squad. He’s not a bad coach, he’s obviously good. But I’m saying that for a magician of a coach, he never really got Turkey to the point many were expecting. Yeah they qualified for the Olympics, but it’s not like they were underdogs at the European qualification. They 100% should’ve won that and they did |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 13:10:16 GMT -5
Guidetti jumped from Germany to Netherlands precisely because he realized Germany's talent was aging out and Netherlands was going to peak. Holland had a great generation peak in 2016, Gui guided them there. How quickly they fell apart is a testament to Morrison. I’m gonna reply to both posts here. Yes the Dutch had better attacking pins, but that’s really all they had over this Turkish squad. Baladin never became the player than many thought she would under Guidetti. Is that on him or her, or her club coach? Also, i’m not simply basing this lack of improvement on this Korean loss, although it does amplify my feelings towards Guidetti and this Turkish squad. He’s not a bad coach, he’s obviously good. But I’m saying that for a magician of a coach, he never really got Turkey to the point many were expecting. Yeah they qualified for the Olympics, but it’s not like they were underdogs at the European qualification. They 100% should’ve won that and they did Ummmm Poland has entered the chat. I feel like both Poland and Turkey were the favorites to qualify. Germany almost qualified and was the shocker of that tournament. I still think Germany is definitely in the mix with some of the upper mid tier CEV teams now. |
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 13:11:37 GMT -5
I’m gonna reply to both posts here. Yes the Dutch had better attacking pins, but that’s really all they had over this Turkish squad. Baladin never became the player than many thought she would under Guidetti. Is that on him or her, or her club coach? Also, i’m not simply basing this lack of improvement on this Korean loss, although it does amplify my feelings towards Guidetti and this Turkish squad. He’s not a bad coach, he’s obviously good. But I’m saying that for a magician of a coach, he never really got Turkey to the point many were expecting. Yeah they qualified for the Olympics, but it’s not like they were underdogs at the European qualification. They 100% should’ve won that and they did Ummmm Poland has entered the chat. I feel like both Poland and Turkey were the favorites to qualify. Germany almost qualified and was the shocker of that tournament. I still think Germany is definitely in the mix with some of the upper mid tier CEV teams now. I recall majority of people saying Turkey was the favourite and that Poland and the Dutch would challenge. It was only after the Germans upset Turkey in round robin that people really opened their eyes to the Polish and Germans and viewed them less as underdogs |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 4, 2021 13:13:17 GMT -5
Guidetti jumped from Germany to Netherlands precisely because he realized Germany's talent was aging out and Netherlands was going to peak. Holland had a great generation peak in 2016, Gui guided them there. How quickly they fell apart is a testament to Morrison. I’m gonna reply to both posts here. Yes the Dutch had better attacking pins, but that’s really all they had over this Turkish squad. Baladin never became the player than many thought she would under Guidetti. Is that on him or her, or her club coach? Also, i’m not simply basing this lack of improvement on this Korean loss, although it does amplify my feelings towards Guidetti and this Turkish squad. He’s not a bad coach, he’s obviously good. But I’m saying that for a magician of a coach, he never really got Turkey to the point many were expecting. Yeah they qualified for the Olympics, but it’s not like they were underdogs at the European qualification. They 100% should’ve won that and they did "Just better attacking pins".... sigh. And that's a retrospective take on the qualifier. Poland should have qualified; Holland would have been better situated had they not completely imploded too. Turkey was on Germany's level of hoping to overachieve. |
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 13:14:02 GMT -5
I know some people won’t agree with me, that’s ok. But Guidetti made Kelsey Robinson look like a real offensive threat when she was under him. I don’t think it’s wrong to say that I expected him to get the team and some of the players into a better form
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 13:17:50 GMT -5
I’m gonna reply to both posts here. Yes the Dutch had better attacking pins, but that’s really all they had over this Turkish squad. Baladin never became the player than many thought she would under Guidetti. Is that on him or her, or her club coach? Also, i’m not simply basing this lack of improvement on this Korean loss, although it does amplify my feelings towards Guidetti and this Turkish squad. He’s not a bad coach, he’s obviously good. But I’m saying that for a magician of a coach, he never really got Turkey to the point many were expecting. Yeah they qualified for the Olympics, but it’s not like they were underdogs at the European qualification. They 100% should’ve won that and they did "Just better attacking pins".... sigh. And that's a retrospective take on the qualifier. Poland should have qualified; Holland would have been better situated had they not completely imploded too. Turkey was on Germany's level of hoping to overachieve. People are only saying that Poland should’ve qualified because they blew that match against Turkey and because Boz had her best match. Just as my view is a retrospective take, yours is as well. We won’t agree on this, so I don’t feel the need to continue to explain my sentiments towards Turkey. |
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Post by fireandwater on Aug 4, 2021 13:33:32 GMT -5
Turkey improved a lot as a national team. Turkey gets a lot of noise because they have a competitive league but they have a lot of foreign players. Putting those natives together as a team and hoping them to overachieve is going to take some time.
Turkey managed to get to the QFs for the first time in their entire history of volleyball, in Tokyo. When they had a great pin back in 2012 (a.k.a legend Neslihan Demir) they finished the tournament as the 9th. (if i'm not mistaken either 8 or 9)
Except a few veterans (Eda, occasional Naz and Boz) it's a completely young team Gui is trying to educate. Both Baladin and Gunes had long term injuries + Covid.
Turkey has a lot of things to improve on the other hand, that's a fact. I can keep going on what needs to improve, but let's keep it short.
All I'm saying is that, they've come along a long way and hopefully they will come back stronger in Paris.
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Post by fireandwater on Aug 4, 2021 13:37:42 GMT -5
Plus they're doing their best in a country that suppresses women so much, they were criticized by some conservative weirdos because of their outfits and also got a lot of support from the radical side like they're some kind of national heros. I don't want to discuss politics but i don't think any of the teams in the tournament have that kind of stress in their lives.
I just have a lot of respect for them.
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Post by Boom! on Aug 4, 2021 13:45:06 GMT -5
Turkey and Russia clearly over-achieved, Korea over-achieved in terms of placement--their quality of play wasn't significantly better. People say Brazil is always dangerous in an Olympics because it always turns out to be true. USA may end up over-achieving in final placement, in light of the fact that this iteration of Karch's team is clearly inferior to USA's Olympic teams in 2012 and 2016.
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Post by donut on Aug 4, 2021 14:19:17 GMT -5
I can't believe posters are actually arguing Turkey/Guidetti underachieved this quad...
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 14:20:23 GMT -5
I can't believe posters are actually arguing Turkey/Guidetti underachieved this quad... lol not underachieved, but that their progression wasn’t what was expected given Guidetti’s track record. Huge difference but some people are turning it into something else 🤷🏻♂️ |
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Post by donut on Aug 4, 2021 14:25:50 GMT -5
I can't believe posters are actually arguing Turkey/Guidetti underachieved this quad... lol not underachieved, but that their progression wasn’t what was expected given Guidetti’s track record. Huge difference but some people are turning it into something else 🤷🏻♂️ That's literally the definition of underachieved.
I think Turkey beats Korea if the tournament did best of series. If they make the semis, would you consider it underachieving? Hanging that much on a 2-3 loss to KYK playing out of her mind feels incorrect.
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 14:29:18 GMT -5
lol not underachieved, but that their progression wasn’t what was expected given Guidetti’s track record. Huge difference but some people are turning it into something else 🤷🏻♂️ That's literally the definition of underachieved.
I think Turkey beats Korea if the tournament did best of series. If they make the semis, would you consider it underachieving? Hanging that much on a 2-3 loss to KYK playing out of her mind feels incorrect.
mmm in one sense yes. But Turkey’s issues at the start of the quad were the exact same at the end. They’re inconsistent and their OHs especially. Is a QF loss underachieving? No. But their inconsistency was the same the whole quad and didn’t get better in that regard Also achievement = how they performed against a standard or goal. Making the QFs, not an under achievement. Progression = how much gain or growth they had throughout the quad. The failure to gain consistency was lack of progression in that area. That is literally all Im saying |
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